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Thread: Helix Sonar

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  1. #1
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    Helix Sonar

    In need of a new fishfindsr/GPS/ chartplotter. These look nice and the older (2017) models are cheaper. Center console/ Transome mount. 7 or 9 whichever fits. Opinions and reviews welcome. I fish Dale in the winter, FL in the spring and fall. Also welcome thoughts on the map cards, etc. I should also point out that with my previous Garmin model, or with any other finder I’ve ever used or been around, I have no idea where those fish/blips/ bait balls are in relation to where I’m casting and where my lure or bait ends up. Very much a novice when it comes to using or relying on a sonar with respect to fish. I’m good, obviously, for contour, depth and substrate but sounding a fish or a school of fish and knowing which direction to cast towards is another thing. Thanks in advance.
    V

  2. #2
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    First let me say I have zero experience with what I am about to suggest but it's still going to be my suggestion. I have been getting the itch to update my electronics so I have been doing some research...If I were buying a new sonar for the sole purpose to locate fish then I would look really hard at Garmin Livescope. When Panoptix first hit the market I liked the way in which it shows a live picture but it was hard to for me interpret. The new Panoptix Livescope uses the Panoptix technology but the addition of Livescope changes the picture so you can see a easier to interpret picture of what's going on under the water.

    My second choice would be Humminbird 360. I like that it shows a real time picture but its not live. I know to some that may not make sense so let me explain. The transducer is constantly sending a signal and getting a return. It will update every few seconds with a real time picture so its real time but it has a delay in the picture because it is waiting for a return signal. Plus it's is not live where you can watch fish swim whereas with Panoptix or Livescope it is a real live picture where you see fish actively swimming on the screen.

    As for operation then I say Youtube and Google is your friend. I know when I got side scan I knew nothing about it. Through youtube and google I learned a lot of useful information about sidescan. If you go Panoptix, Livescope or 360 you will have to buy a unit that is capable of using the appropriate transducer. You could always buy the GPS/sonar with traditional sonar and update to the more advance stuff I mentioned later. I am not real sure what Panoptix cost but Livescope is about $1500 and 360 about $1000. You can spend anywhere from $5-700 on a head unit that is compatible but if you want a big screen with tons of other features the price can go up to $2000 for just the head unit. For a ballpark figure of $2-2500 you can get a top of the line new GPS/sonar with any of the three features I mentioned. The price is what's keeping me from pulling the trigger but the more I watch youtube the more my trigger finger gets the itch...Garmin Livescope would be my choice if $ was not an option.

  3. #3
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    Thanks R19. The Garmin looks like a great piece of electronics but very expensive indeed.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ON3 3Y3D WILLI3 View Post
    I should also point out that with my previous Garmin model, or with any other finder I’ve ever used or been around, I have no idea where those fish/blips/ bait balls are in relation to where I’m casting and where my lure or bait ends up. Very much a novice when it comes to using or relying on a sonar with respect to fish. I’m good, obviously, for contour, depth and substrate but sounding a fish or a school of fish and knowing which direction to cast towards is another thing. Thanks in advance.
    V
    Once you see some structure/bait ball on your FF drop a buoy. Turn 180 deg and do the same thing at the same speed. Hit that at another 90 deg increment, then 180 from that one. You should have 4 buoys marked around your structure. Do this a couple of times and you will understand what is on your screen compared to where it is in correlation to the boat. The “cone” that is shot down form the fish finder ranges in size depending on your frequency. Sometimes the “cone” diameter is the same as the depth, sometimes its 3x the depth, it all depends.

    Typically what is on your screen is behind the boat, what is shown on the screen is history of what has passed through the sonar cone. The can all vary from FF to FF though

  5. #5
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    Understanding what you see... No matter what technology you use... is vastly more important that the technology you choose.

    https://doctorsonar.com/ is a fantastic source not just for learning how to use your chosen technology, but also how to choose, install and setup your tools.

    He has a ton of free information as well as paid course material. It's the perfect time of year for anyone and everyone to up their game by becoming more proficient with their eyes under the water.

    I'd start there, increase your knowledge, THEN choose a direction.
    Likes PRO V LE, peter liked this post

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duayne View Post
    Understanding what you see... No matter what technology you use... is vastly more important that the technology you choose.

    https://doctorsonar.com/ is a fantastic source not just for learning how to use your chosen technology, but also how to choose, install and setup your tools.

    He has a ton of free information as well as paid course material. It's the perfect time of year for anyone and everyone to up their game by becoming more proficient with their eyes under the water.

    I'd start there, increase your knowledge, THEN choose a direction.
    DR Sonar Rocks!

    You have to be really be into learning about the stuff though. He puts a friend of mine to sleep. You know you are.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter View Post
    DR Sonar Rocks!

    You have to be really be into learning about the stuff though. He puts a friend of mine to sleep. You know you are.
    LOL As a geek that fishes I can fully understand how he could put you to sleep. Full disclosure: I've never taken one of his courses. I've learned the hard, long way through research, tons of reading and on the water effort. The way I learn is different than how most would learn so for those that need a fast track, I think Dr Sonar and a bunch of coffee would be the way to go.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duayne View Post
    LOL As a geek that fishes I can fully understand how he could put you to sleep. Full disclosure: I've never taken one of his courses. I've learned the hard, long way through research, tons of reading and on the water effort. The way I learn is different than how most would learn so for those that need a fast track, I think Dr Sonar and a bunch of coffee would be the way to go.
    DR sonar highly recommend by me. I have one of his DVD's and can watch it again and pickup something new. If you want to know what you are looking at on the screen and how it got there you need the DR.'s help. For example, does anybody know what the "dead zone" is as it relates to fish finders? The Dr. does. This is extremely relevant to a like like Cumberland.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter View Post
    I have one of his DVD's and can watch it again and pickup something new. If you want to know what you are looking at on the screen and how it got there you need the DR.'s help. For example, does anybody know what the "dead zone" is as it relates to fish finders? The Dr. does. This is extremely relevant to a like like Cumberland.


    care to recommend a good beginner DVD from him?

  10. #10
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    watch instructional dvd's, watch youtube videos, take a class....do whatever it takes to get your started with good information.
    and then (ive said this many times before) take the boat to the lake....AND LEAVE ALL YOUR FISHING RODS AT HOME...
    this will allow you to pay undivided attention and focus on the graph.
    i spend an enormous amount of time graphing the afternoon before i plan on striper fishing the next morning, during this time i am not only scouting for fish/bait, i am constantly fine tuning and watching how each little change either improves or degrades what im lookig at.
    i guess the short answer is the same as duaynes, there is no substitute for time on the water.

    p.s. lat summer i had to fish for 25 days without a graph while mine was beinng replaced, i felt so uncomfortable and naked without my underwater eyes. but with a lot of help from duayne and years of notes i was able to limit everyday except one.

    that leads me to my next obsession....good notes, they have proven to be the most effective tool on my boat

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripernut1 View Post
    watch instructional dvd's, watch youtube videos, take a class....do whatever it takes to get your started with good information.
    and then (ive said this many times before) take the boat to the lake....AND LEAVE ALL YOUR FISHING RODS AT HOME...
    this will allow you to pay undivided attention and focus on the graph.
    i spend an enormous amount of time graphing the afternoon before i plan on striper fishing the next morning, during this time i am not only scouting for fish/bait, i am constantly fine tuning and watching how each little change either improves or degrades what im lookig at.
    i guess the short answer is the same as duaynes, there is no substitute for time on the water.

    p.s. lat summer i had to fish for 25 days without a graph while mine was beinng replaced, i felt so uncomfortable and naked without my underwater eyes. but with a lot of help from duayne and years of notes i was able to limit everyday except one.

    that leads me to my next obsession....good notes, they have proven to be the most effective tool on my boat
    I don't have the luxury of spending hours on the water before a trip. I usually get in the evening before and must spend time getting the boat set and prepare to catch bait. So I've had to come up with ways to be as efficient as possible in eliminating water. I do not know many on Cumberland that have adopted a combined side scan, sonar, GPS approach like I have (Maybe they have and I just haven't met them). Sometimes 40 yards in or 20 yards out can make all the difference in the world with stripers. They are creatures of structure and sometimes a bottom depth change of 10 feet can make all the difference in the world. I use side imaging to help me home in on what's going on, GPS to see the structure changes and sonar to get a real time read for line adjustments. My screen always has all three.

    And we were lucky the fish were a little scattered and staying in a the same general area\depth range when you didn't have your finder. LOL

  12. #12
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    Youand my dad would get into a fight if you did that.

    Quote Originally Posted by stripernut1 View Post
    watch instructional dvd's, watch youtube videos, take a class....do whatever it takes to get your started with good information.
    and then (ive said this many times before) take the boat to the lake....AND LEAVE ALL YOUR FISHING RODS AT HOME...
    this will allow you to pay undivided attention and focus on the graph.
    i spend an enormous amount of time graphing the afternoon before i plan on striper fishing the next morning, during this time i am not only scouting for fish/bait, i am constantly fine tuning and watching how each little change either improves or degrades what im lookig at.
    i guess the short answer is the same as duaynes, there is no substitute for time on the water.

    p.s. lat summer i had to fish for 25 days without a graph while mine was beinng replaced, i felt so uncomfortable and naked without my underwater eyes. but with a lot of help from duayne and years of notes i was able to limit everyday except one.

    that leads me to my next obsession....good notes, they have proven to be the most effective tool on my boat
    Years ago when I first started learning about sonar units I gave a speech in HS about how the Lowrance Little Green Box worked. When my dad bought the very first retail fish flasher I studied the manual and learned how it worked. This unit ran on two 6 volt dry cell batteries and was actually a good unit for finding structure and you had to learn how the flasher worked to use it properly. I wanted to spend the day using the fish flasher on the lake but my father wanted to fish. As he had been fishing this area of KY lake and catching huge bass for years before I was in HS. I think I was a sophmore when he got the Little Green box. He got really mad at me when I just wanted to run the boat back and forth over some drop offs to learn the lay of the land. So we didn't get to use the little green box much. After I got my own boat I bought the Humminbird 60 flasher and used it a lot. Finally I got the Humminbird LCR8000 which was a liquid crystal graph recorder type sonar unit. I still have this unit on the front of my boat in good working condition. It's was new in 1986 when I got it. A few years ago I added side scanning sonar to my boat. So I've been using sonar units for many years. Over 40 years now. There was a really good article in Fishing Facts Magazine back in the 1980's and I read that 6 page article over and over. Most sonar units used a single frequency to send and received sound waves from the transducer. Now we have multi frequency sonars that can send the signals faster and longer and give us a better picture of the bottom 6". The ping rate has changed so that we can now see things closer to the bottom. Now frequency changes help us see the fish better too. It's called CHIRP now.

    If you want to better understand what the sonar is showing you get some topographic maps and learn to read the contours on the map. Drive around the roads and look at the land along the road way. Noticed the high and low areas. Check out the steep areas and the flat areas. Make a not of any creeks you see and how they twist and turn as they meander though a woods or meadow. Then pretend that the land has water on it and you are in a boat 30 ft above the land. Imagine what the sonar would show you below? Keep this in mind when you are fishing and using sonar. Think about what the land looked like before the lake was flooded. The most important thing it to see in your minds eye what the bottom of the lake looks like and then learn what type of fish use different types of strcture at different times of the years. Throw in some objects like underwater ledges or stumps or even submergent vegetation and the end of the weed line.

    I use to scuba dive and every time I was diving I'd check out the schools of fish. My dive buddies didn't fish like me so they didn't pay that much attention to the fish. I did pay attention and wondered why the fish were where they were. I found many fish in the 3 to 4 lb range swimming together in big schools. But they were hanging around structure. There was a building that was flooded and the fish were hanging around inside the building. The water was 40 ft deep and the house or building was completely under water. It was a rock quarry in Western KY called Celurian Springs. It's used to this day as a diving center. It was closed to the public when I was diving that day. Yea we went diving anyway. There were huge bluegills nesting on a sloped area with a sandy bottom. It was an old ramp road that allowed the equipment to drive into the rock quarry. It was fairly steep at about 30 deg slope and went all the way down to the bottom of the quarry. The bluegill were in 15 ft of water nesting. They were huge. And the water was crystal clear. It was a scene that I will never forget.

    When I was in college I took a course in Physical Geology at the Universty of Southern Indiana. Back then it was called ISUE. In that class the professor introduced me to topographical maps. That was back in 1973/74. I had to learn to draw a topo map from data points that included the depth reading and the long and lat of each data point. We learned to draw lines of equal depth using the data points. And yes the more data points you have the more accurate the topo map will be.

    Learn to your your depth finder and you will catch more fish in the long run. Just don't take my dad fishing with you if all you are going to do is ride around the lake without any fishing poles. LOL He would not like that. Dad passed in 2001 and now I can do all the scouting around on the lake that I want without having to listen to him complaining about us not fishing.

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