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  1. #13
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    Why am I not surprised that you would leave a post like this. You are obviously not moved to be involved with the improvement of the status quo. So maybe you should just continue to argue about aluminum boats........

  2. #14
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    Actually what happens to the Federation is important to all of us anglers. They have been the paramount driving force over the years in conservation and getting kids involved in fishing. These folks have given and still give countless hours of their free time as volunteers to work with kids and assist in cleaning up rivers, lakes, etc.... What they have accomplished has affected us all and what they may or may not do in the future will affect us also.

  3. #15
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    I just got back from Indy and the IBF meeting. It was a long meeting and really nothing concrete was decided. The end result of an afternoon of debating it back and forth was: A vote of confidence was taken to back the IBF president and the board on whatever they deem is best fot the state at the Jan meeting of the Federation presidents. The main concern was the insurance that each member has with BASS. This is an AD/D policy in the amount of $300,000. If anyone reading this is going to the KBF tomorrow I would really appreciate them posting their results.

    Don

  4. #16
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    One of our members is a KBF regional rep and He frequents this site quite a bit.I will guarantee that any pertenent info that has'nt already been posted he will.I know Donnie K.will keep everyone in the know on the Ky.side. As for the other post,if someone has to explain it, it is all lost in translation.Just have a seat and pay your entry.

  5. #17
    Donnie Keeton Guest

    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    KBF Board of Directors and Club Representatives in attendance voted overwhelmingly to devote 100% support to TBF,Inc.
    Thanks guys for the comments and your devoted support.

    Donnie Keeton, president

  6. #18
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    This is an interesting view of the inner workings of the tournament angling industry. Since I am not a member of any of the clubs or organizations now working through the FLW/BASS debates, I have to say I don’t really have a dog in that fight. But as a minor player in the resource management field, I have to wonder if the rank and file of these groups truly understands what this is all about. In my estimation, it a mostly about two large marketing organizations battling for the high ground in a purely business oriented campaign. For those who love to attack me here, I’ll admit up front that I don’t have all the answers; but I have a lot of questions.

    The campaign is camouflaged in the trappings of group loyalty, team support, conservations and similar lofty ideas. But look at the names involved. Ranger vs Triton, ESPN vs, Walmart, Goodyear, Chevy, Pringles, Frito-Lay, and on and on. Somewhere in the discussion, I read where the state Federations have some 40,000 members. With that many people in a market for such expensive toys as bass boats, outboard motors, pickup trucks, and the plethora of other items that get used in the pursuit of outdoor recreation, you can bet those corporations are not just trying to be friendly without a business interest.

    So, what is at the root of that business interest? A recent experience in my part of the world let me see into the mind of one of the larger players. Recently, a single individual tried to make a case, despite the fact that we host a great many tournaments each year, that our tournament regulations were somehow a violation of his “right to fish tournaments.” He threatened a lawsuit to that effect, and swore to get the entire county government replaced if he didn’t get his way. Is there any “right” to fish tournaments, in the sense that a court of law could define it as a right and rule that it must be upheld? Where is such a “right” codified? Obviously, one can assume that the antagonist in the story was trying to use the idea of a right being violated as an over-the-top hyperbole to push resistance out of his way. But the guy did have some support.

    One of the contenders in the current battle for possession of the tournament industry actually wrote a letter, from none other than the President of the organization, warning that the power of their large and powerful organization, and by reference some of the largest corporate interests in the world, would be brought to bear on this issue, including the legal and political aspects. The original petitioner threatened to literally overthrow the executive, legislative and judicial branches of two county governments, and the would-be “owner” of the tournament industry offered his support to the effort. That is an amazing thing in itself, but the larger question is Why?

    I think the answer can be found in the details of the things the industry leaders use to support their cause, and in doing a little math. One example is the statement that it was a goal of the tournament industry to elevate tournament fishing to the level of professional auto racing, Pro-football, etc. Now, I don’t have any problem with that, but as far as I know, there is no claim in the racing industry of a “right to race cars”, or even a “right to watch cars race.” That industry builds race tracks, develops all the infrastructure and resources it needs to hold its events, which are admittedly driven by the business interests of the sponsors. They don’t try to claim that their right to race should allow them to do it on the interstate highway system.

    So, why is it that the tournament fishing industry does not just build its own lakes and manage its own fisheries? Could it be that it is more profitable to use the infrastructure that is already in place in the form of public owned waters, local, state and federally managed fisheries, and the millions and millions of tax dollars that have gone into creating those assets? They large tournament organizations, like those involved in this current debate, often throw out statistics about how much money they give back to the management of natural resources. Has anyone ever done a thorough study of how that compares with how much money they take out? Is there any chance that any of the dollars we all spend of taxes, license fees, boating fees, etc., to build lakes, pay biolgists, enforce game and fish laws, etc., are being transferred by the tournament industry into the profit margin of corporate interests and promoters? And if not, why are they now fighting each other over the whole issue?


  7. #19
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    Mike,

    Have you ever stuck a stick up a hornets nest just to see if there were any there? I think you're posturing from your petestal again. Going back to a matter that you ended up winning (for the right reasons mind you) and using the term camoflauge in your positioning is a bit contradicting to say the least. If you recall, a great majority of "tournament fishing" folks supported you on this board and elsewhere. You have undoubtedly taken a hard line against the people that threatened you and I understand that. But you are asking for it all to resurface again. The very nature of tournament fishing is competition but when you translate that into "does anyone understand" commentary then you definitely underestimate the intellect and common sense of the tournament fishing world.

    One thing you must understand is the Federation and it's 40,000+ members are the people that put tournament fishing on the map. The fight here is for the Federation to back off the big corporations from assuming control and use the leverage of 40,000+ members for a better Federation (conservation programs, youth programs, political leverage and yes better leverage for tournament sponsors). The Federation is the Dog and not the Tail and for far too long the Tail has been wagging the Dog. This is all changing and if that means the big corporate boys have to sweeten their deals to be associated with the Federation then so be it. Good for the Federation!

    Your posturing (analogy to build your own lakes for tournaments instead of riding our infrastructure) seems against the grain of economic development for rural communities that are in proximity to lakes or rivers. Why doesn't the NCAA build it's own arena's accross the country and hold every single basketball game in March Madness at their own facilities? It is because the games played at the existing facilities accross the country serve their purpose and bring millions into that local economy. Can you explain how tournament entities "take out moneys from the management of natural resources? How can "dollars we all spend of taxes, license fees, boating fees, etc., to build lakes, pay biolgists, enforce game and fish laws, etc.," end up in the profit margin of corporate interests and promoters? I'm very interested in your response to this question.

    Kind regards,

    TI

  8. #20
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    Dear Mr. Axsom, you are right about several things. You do not have a dog in this fight, you are not a member of any of the organizations envolved, and you really don't understand whats going on. Until such time as you do know and understand whats going on maybe it would be best if you butted out. It would seem that all you are looking for is a forum to voice your complaints of some tournament fishermen. And you evidently are not even aware of the principal player in this whole affair, that being the TBF. (look it up) All you have done here is produce more confusing material in a matter that is full of confusing material. So until you are fully aware of whats going on around you maybe it would be best if you remained an observer.

  9. #21
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    TI, thanks for saying it more diplomatically and nicer than I did. You are right on the money.

    Don

  10. #22
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    TI- I am sorry you feel insulted by my comments. I did say that I have a lot of questions and few answers, right at the beginning of those comments.

    From a rather distant perspective, I do agree with you that the Federation troops and similar grassroots level angling interests are the real heart and soul of tournament angling and its recent growth in popularity. Most of those folks I know are serious about their sport, and about their commitments to conservation, passing on the outdoor tradition, etc. I guess I don't understand how either Disney or Wal-Mart are necessary parts of that.

    I have not at all taken any hard-line against tournament anglers. We still have many dedicated clients and friends that fall within that definition. Through the frequent battles of will with certain individuals, I have become more interested the hows and whys of where this sport is going in relation to the management of public resources. That is an area in which I am personally interested. I don’t see why it should be so much different for someone from the agency management side of these issues to question or comment on the tournament industry side than it is for the tournament side to question or comment on how things work in the agency management side. Sorry if that concept offends some folks. At least I didn’t threaten to sue anybody.

    On the matter of public funding of sports arenas, I certainly don't always agree with that either; but at least it is usually done in a direct public setting where elected officials have to vote on their decisions and thus be on the record.

    As for the tournament industry and corporate interests riding on public resources, I didn't say that was the case! I simply asked if there had been any research to compare the cost/benefit, or even examine such a possibility. If you know of any such data, I'd love to know where to read it.

    For another respondent, I am sorry if my questions made this issue more confusing to you.


  11. #23
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    Now I am confused. Almost all my earlier post was in the form of questions. If I am not supposed to comment until I know all the facts, but I am prohibited from asking questions, how am I to aquire those facts? I am sorry fo any confusion my questions may have caused by wondering about some of the potential interactions between various interests in this debate.

  12. #24
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    RE: Federation to align with FLW??

    Mr. Axsom if you are truely interested in the facts of this situation you can go to Bassfan.com or the websites of Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, Tennessee or any number of other states. A Google search might be a good place to start.

    I just don't think you have that much interest in the fishing community other than to stir things up. I can remember when I was trying to help Jim get fishing reports from Southern Indiana lakes and I tried to contact you any number of times to see if you could or would help and you never saw fit to return my calls. Seems to me that would have been a good opertunity for you to help out. But instead you ignored us. Now you want to get into a fight in which you admittedly don't have a dog.

    To the other forum members please pardon me for popping off.....

    Don

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