Federation to align with FLW??

[MikeAxsom]

Don, my interest in the fishing community may be vastly different than yours, but is much more involved than just wanting to "stir things up." I work in a field where anglers represent a significant portion of our clientele. As such I do make it a habit to try to see what is going on in the areas that interest them, including visiting some of the websites you mention on a regular basis. But not all those clients are tournament anglers so not all my interest is in pleasing that segment. I also have an interest in knowing how we can best serve the most people with our finite resources; which often leads me to probe some issues where various interests collide. Having said that, I also think that the vast majority of Federation members are really fine sincere people, that have wonderful intentions with their personal fishing interests.

I also recall the time when Jim was trying to get fishing reports from the region, and I also recall some other things from that time that may have been a factor in my failure to return your calls. One of those was that I went through a major health crisis a few years back, in which I lost a few internal parts to cancer. I was one of the lucky ones though. I have since made a good recovery but I’ll admit to having dropped the ball on several things there for a while. If you felt slighted in any way, I apologize. Since I don’t know you, I assure it was not personal.

At your suggestion, since I don’t have a dog in this fight, and since it is apparent that probing questions are not welcome in the process in which no other perspectives are going to be considered, I will remove myself and wish you all the best.

[HoosierDon]

Thank you and I hope you are back to your wanted health.......

[Tackled]

Ray & Don,

In an effort to avoid the confrontations that are continually associated with resource management, I would like to explore one of the dogs that has a tail.....specifically, I am intrigued by the idea of the Federation forming its own trail. 40k members, probably 25k boat owners, has to be a formidale lure for sponsors. The Federation has always been a pillar of structural honesty, integrity, and resourcefulness. I am confident that as an organization, it is capable of putting on a trail to rival that of BASS and FLW, if not in rewards then at least in interest. I had not even considered it before this string of posts, and now it seems to be the clear path for those of us who enjoy fair competition.
Of course, I've never won a tournament with $100K paychecks, but I also have never had Mercury, Motorguide, Lowrance, and Kelloggs backing me. I think it would be fantastic if my 39,999 fellow members could see fit to challenge those sponsors to meet us on our turf.
Heck, we could have the championship over in Martin/Davies Counties, between Labor Day and Memorial Day.

Respectfully,
Tackled

[MikeAxsom]

You pull THAT off and I'll pay the tournament permit fee myself.

[HoosierDon]

Tackled, thanks for your input. I think you may be pleasantly surprised. I am not an insider but from all the information that I have been able to get there just may be a TBF circuit out there. I think it is getting closer by the day.....we'll just have to wait and see.

Don

[lov2fish]

I would love to see the Federation move forward without B.A.S.S. or FLW. I would love to see the Federation as a stand alone entity with it's own Championship. There would be paydays unlike anything the weekend angler has ever experienced. You could still have the top 8 and every aspect of the Federation level with a twist. You could take the top 10 or 20 anglers from each state and have their own "Championship" on a neutral body of water. The reality is, most "Pro" anglers get their products free and are just a marketing tool for the manufacturer. I am pretty sure the sponsorship would be solidly behind the new "Series" But I think they would take a limited role in the beginning to make sure the new "Circuit" grabs hold and takes off.

There are surely lot's of opportunity that exist for the Federation to move forward and I hope it is without ESPN/DISNEY.


Sincerely, Ray Rigby

P.S. I still wouldn't support any tournaments during the hot periods of the year :)

[TI]

Mike,

I am not insulted by your comments. I'm pointing out that you used the current topic to tread on a previous debate about your resource management practices....which you won that battle....and I agreed with the outcome. When you want to ask questions, then why not simply ask the questions.

Why is Disney and Walmart a part of this?
BASS has been a sponsor/partner of the Federation since the outset. However, when Disney/ESPN bought BASS the relationship began to be strained. I actually think that Disney/ESPN thought the Federation was part of the package they purchased. Due diligence should have made it more clear to them, but there seemed to be some grey area. Ironically, the Federation State Chapters started their own corporation back in the early 90's called The Bass Federation (TBF). TBF was created to protect the interests of the State Federations. Now, it's time for TBF to step up as Disney/ESPN/BASS have all but killed their opportunity to continue to sponsorship/partnership with the Federation. So, enter an opportunity for another sponsor/partner - Walmart and FLW. That isn't guaranteed, but talks are happening. TBF has the leverage now to attract a terrific sponsor package or if they wanted to create their own tournament series they could do that as well. I hope this quick summary explains why Disney and Walmart are brought up in this debate.

I know you didn't take a hard-line against all tournament anglers. I was referring to spat over West Boggs tournaments and the certain individuals that were involved in that threat. You continue to tread on that.

Hey, the agency and tournament debates are healthy for both parties. We need to have open lines of communication. To your surprise (maybe), most tournament anglers are on the side of conservation and the management thereof.

I did not bring up public funding of sports arenas. I was simply using an analogy to defend tournament anglers use of public waters to hold tournaments.

Again, can you explain how tournament entities "take out moneys from the management of natural resources"? You stated they brag about giving back, but you pose they possibly are taking. How so?

Also, you state the possibility that "dollars we all spend on taxes, license fees, boating fees, etc., to build lakes, pay bioligists, enforce game and fish laws, etc.," end up in the profit margin of corporate interests and promoters. How so?

Perhaps Kyle Hupfer has these answers...which kind of makes me chuckle since I already used the terms due diligence and grey area in the same post. ;-)

Respectfully,

TI

[MikeAxsom]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-05 AT 09:06AM (EST)[/font][p]Todd

I already said I would stay out of this since there appears to be no interest in outsider opinions. But I will try to answer your questions and/or respond to your comments.

I suppose it may seem like I was just jumping on this thread to harp on another old issue, but that was not at all my intent. From my perspective it is part of the same issue. In the previous attempt to dominate the West Boggs resource management in favor of tournament interests, the only reason it became anything other than a single person being bent out of shape was due to the entry of FLW Outdoors into the fray. I only used that information in this thread to try to set the context for my other concerns. And yes, we still won that battle. But I have in my file a full page letter from FLW Outdoors which is in pretty direct contrast to the input on that issue from grass roots tournament people thought, apparently including you. As a result of this experience, it will be a while before I see the names FLW and Wal-Mart associated with outdoor recreation and not see red flags of warning. When you refer to the “certain individuals who were involved” in that spat, FLW is at the top of that list. That is why I even commented on this.

As for the prospect of tournament entities taking money out of the system, I did pose that as a question. My question is based on my thinking that the basis of all wealth is productivity. And my view of natural resources is and they are indeed resources. These resources are limited and often exist in their modern form only because of great efforts by society in the form of having provided infrastructure and support services that did not otherwise exist, and doing so at public expense. In that sense one might look at the fisheries a sort of currency, in which society has vested some of its collective wealth, to be able to retrieve it later in the form of public recreation. So, our modern fisheries were produced by investment and hard work. They didn’t exist in their present abundance 100 years ago. Same thing goes for white-tailed deer, wild turkeys, etc. That we still refer to these things as “natural” resources may even be misnomers. And by the way, how long would we stand for the commercialization of turkey hunting contests?

Some of my thinking on this money issue might be summed up by a quote from one of my favorite authors, Ayn Rand. “If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose... the fact that they were the people who created the phrase "to make money." No other language or nation had ever used these words before... Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created.”

I often try to test theories by carrying them out to their extremes and seeing where they might break down. In this idea of following the money in the industrialized tournaments business, one of those extremes would be found in a scenario where all public waters were declared off limits to organized tournaments. How long would the FLW office be able to keep it lights on? I’m not advocating that extreme, just pointing out that it shows that the real production taking place on which this industry thrives is taking place underwater. So, I wonder, are they taking out more than they are putting back in? I don’t know the answer to that, and as far as I know, neither does anyone else. Where is the data?

I am not sure why you feel it necessary to “defend” tournament anglers’ use of public waters; at least with me. I have not suggested that such use should be denied. I do suggest that perhaps it would be a good idea to do so graciously, and within the limits set by the public owner, and perhaps to give that owner a chance to understand all the dynamics that take place when such a use approaches a commercial activity instead of a recreational activity. If the public wants its water used that way, I have no problem with the idea. I do have a problem with the idea that it should be done and the public should just keep their nose out of it. They do own it after all. And somehow, at this point in time, through the process of freedom and elections, Mr. Hupfer happens to be the public's representitive in much of the resource managmeent issues in this state. I don't work for him, but I do agree with many of his positions.

[hardestyeric]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-05 AT 10:21AM (EST)[/font][p]Mike,
You do bring up an interesting point that does have a fairly direct answer. The majority of the tournaments do bring some good things to the surrounding economy. There are usually a few stops at local restaraunts, gas station, bait stores. When a large event like an IBF, HOT or the like goes somewhere there are usually many hotel rooms rented out. They may not give directly back to the resource but they do finance the local economy to a certain extent. There are also many smaller federation clubs that help the resources. I know of two ramps on the White River that were, at the very least, helped built by federation clubs. The majority of the federation clubs help put on casting kids seminars for local youths. And many tournaments are held as benefits for people that are less fortunate.
I understand that you have had an unfortunate incident with a large pro-tourney group. I didn't agree with the stance that they took either. However, this does not make all tourney anglers greedy and all consumed by the mighty dollar. If I'm not mistaken the tourney anglers do, to some extent, help finance your facility with tourney fees and paying at the gate.
Eric H.

[MikeAxsom]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-05 AT 11:35AM (EST)[/font][p]Eric- I don't know how many times I have to say this. I don't paint all tournament anglers with the same brush. Some, I believe the great majority, are fine people with a real respect of the resource and a dedication to excellence in what they do. But that does not mean I am willing to let the few that do not have those qualities ride the coattails of the good guys. I fail to see any reason why some of you folks don't want to hear that there are some problems in the tournament industry. Just because that is true doesn’t mean I think you are the cause of the problems. There are a great many people in my field too, and many of them are less involved and less knowledgeable, and some even less honest than they should be. That doesn't mean we should eliminate all resource management, or that that all resource managers have to be treated like the worst ones. I deal with a great many user groups for our particular set of resources, and for some reason it is the tournament anglers that always seem to have the biggest chip on their shoulder. As far as I'm concerned, that chip is there for no good reason. No one I know of is suggesting that tournament fishing should be done away with.

[hardestyeric]

You are exactly correct. There are people like that in every facet of life. Yet, everytime there is anything brought up on this board about tourney angling there is instantly a backlash of people coming on here and posting about how tourney anglers are going to take over all the lakes, rape and pillage the resources, and move on to other places. This post started about being a debate over whether the federation should stay affiliated with BASS or switch to the FLW, and due to a couple posts it has been hi-jacked into a debate over what tourney anglers give back to their resources. I understand your concern with the stance that the FLW took on the issue at Bogg's but for the time being you have the ultimate control over that issue, making it a dead topic. I also understand your concern about big business attaching itself to fishing. That is the American way, big business will attach itself to anything it thinks it can make a dollar off of. That is just the way things are.
Eric H.

[fishinforfun2005]

How 'bout them Colts?