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  1. #1
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    New fishing reg suggestions

    Ok, in a recent thread SSKY suggested some fishing reg changes. He and I got a little off track in the responses, so I thought this might be a good time to revisit reg changes and put us on track. Obviously this is all hypothetical as I have no pull with the state. I'll list some changes that I would like to see, followed by my reasoning.

    Stripers. Since I typically fish for them at Cumberland, I'll direct my suggestions for that lake. December 1 - May 1, one fish, 36 inches in length. Summertime, 2 fish, 20 inch length. In addition, summer time, you catch your limit, you are done striper fishing for the day. Tournaments, Dec 1 to May 1 only.

    Bass. Catch and immediate release only during the spawning season. Summertime tournys are night only, and no longer than 5 hours in length. In addition, fish are not all dumped back in the lake right at the ramp. Instead, they are released at various locations around the lake.

    Regs for tournys on small, state owned lakes: limit the number of boats allowed on the lake at any given time. I.e., if it is determined that 20 boats should be allowed on the lake for a tourney, one tourney with 20 boats, or two with 10 each. There would be a sign up for the tournys, first come, first served (there is already a page on the web to do this, but most do not do it). Might also set up something similar with non-tourny anglers and recreational boats too. That is, only X number of boats on a specific body of water.

    Here are my reasons. With stripers, once the water temps get into the 70's, you have increasing rates of post release mortality. During summer, this is something in the order of 80% of stripers released die. Mortality rates increase with the size of the fish. From what I have read, stripers less than 20 inches in length have a reasonable chance of survival after release even in warmer water. Above this size, summer release results in high rates of post release mortality. Cold water temps, good chance of survival for all stripers if they are not fought to complete exhaustion, handled as little as possible, and returned to the water quickly. By decreasing the size limit during the summer, people would not be releasing 20-23 7/8 inch stripers to die while trying to catch a 24 inch striper to keep. Increasing the size during the cold months would help to bring the average size of stripers up. Also increase the numbers of trophy fish in the lake.

    Bass reasons: if you remove a bass from the nest, even for a short period of time, you lose those eggs. It has been shown that even immediate release of a bass caught off a nest can result in the bass not returning to the nest, or not guarding it as aggressively. Put it in the live well and take to another place on the lake, that nest is unguarded and the fry have little chance of survival (eggs are eaten before they hatch). This is one of the biggest pet peeves of mine, people activity fishing for spawning fish. I can not understand how people can preach catch and release year round, but still target nests. They want those fish released so they can spawn, but take them off the nests so the spawn doesn't matter. Studies have also shown that during the summer months, post release mortality increases, especially in day time tournys. It has been recommended that all summer tournys are night time. In addition, the same study indicated that post release mortality was decreased by shortening the time that bass stayed in the live well. The recommendation was for no more than 5 hours. There was also a study that examined the affect of releasing bass at the launch site. The finding was that if the launch site was close to bank fishing areas, something like 70% of the fish re-caught in such areas were kept. By continually releasing tournament fish at the launch site, the area was continuously stocked with keeper sized fish that were then being taken from the lake.

    Limiting the number of boats on the smaller lakes is a combination of a safety issue and over fishing. For example, I've been on Guist Creek Lake when there were 3-4 tournys going on at the same time, on a weekend, plus non-tourny anglers and pleasure boats. A 300 acre lake with 80+ boats, not fun!!! You also have to consider how much fishing pressure these smaller lakes can take. Sure, larger lakes can handle a lot more fishing pressure, but the smaller lakes cannot.

    Well, that's my rant. I'm interested to hear other people's opinions and suggestions as to what they would like to see if they had a say in the regs.

    Andrew




  2. #2
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    Most bass fisherman say they are sportsman. But when you keep 5 bass in your live well for 7 hours when it's 85 degrees outside and the water temp is 80 your going to lose those fish. I agree with limiting summer time tournaments that why I don't fish that many. you should only be able to keep 2 or 3 fish and it should be over by noon. If any of you remember fishing at Monroe in the early 90's. You could keep 10 fish in a tournament they threw more dead fish away than they released. this killed that lake and i don't know if it will ever come back.
    I also agree with messing with bedding fish it really hurts the bass population.I think tournaments should be banned when fish are bedding or at least the first part of the spawn.
    Don't get me wrong if someone needs some filets to eat I'm not against that,I am against putting dead fish back in the water to feed the tuttles, but there are some little thing we can do to improve the sport

  3. #3
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    Very good thread in my opinion...

  4. #4
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    Excellent thread and as usual I think Andrew is dead on the money. I personally feel there are waaaaay to many tournaments also, and while I'm not against them they certainly need to be regulated. How can a lake the size of Taylorsville support 4 or 5 tourney's in a week, with sometimes fifty plus boats in some of these. This is exactly why the fishing is so tough and now Taylorsville is dubbed the dead sea. In Cumberland I would really like to see the slot put on the smallmouth as it is on Dale. There are way too many meathogs eating barely or sometimes not keeper sizes brown bass out of the big C. This would also make the sriper guides with clients release alot more fish than they are now. This was not meant to be pointing at anyone, it's just that most not all guided clients are novice fisherman and when a brown bass enters the boat, one of the first questions is, can we keep it. Guides promote catch and release but to someone out for a day of fishing they have paid big money for, they want to take whatever home they can, therefore the guides allow them to keep ALot of smallies because they kinda have to. Put the slot on them, now the guides have the law on their side and the bass swim free, if they are not gullet hooked. I think everything else Andrew said was right on target, and my post is not, and I hope won't have all the tourney boys start flaming me for stating my opinions. We have a wonderful resource guys and gurls but we better watch out, because too much of a good thing can do some real damage if we aren't real careful, Mark.

  5. #5
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    Amen.

    kc

  6. #6
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    OK here is my take on this . Yes some are very good points , BUT as far as the slot limit goes on smallmouth yes you may be helping one species but the "meat hogs " as they are called then target the largemouth. Case in point DALE HOLLOW. I can remember when Dale's largemouth population was unbeliveable.But in only a few years after the slot limit was introduced largemouth numbers seemed to decline. (You saw less fish , and fewer fish(largemouth) where being caught. It seems now if someone is going to keep a fish they have to keep a largemouth (or ky wich has no limit). The small mouth will live in open water enough that the population still thrives even without a slot limit. Even when they raised the size limit to 18" the fish and wildlife officials declared it wasn't out of necessity but more to satisfy a few political issues . (Commisioners at the time)


  7. #7
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    I would prefer a 2 fish limit on Cumberland. It seems that you see more and more dead stripers floating every year. Especially in the summer. I counted 5 in the Jamestown idle zone in one weekend!

    To me this would help, since many of the released fish die, and the angler then HAS to release the short fish. But continues to fish until a legal size fish makes it to the cooler.

  8. #8
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    Dilbert attacks fishing

    This may not be the best place to post this, but in a sense some of the suggestions kind of attack tournament fishing.. e.g. the posts limiting summer tournies to 2 or 3 fish, and must be over by noon.

    So, I thought I'd throw this out there. I love the Dilbert Cartoon Strip. I think it often hits buearcratic office policies on the head. This past Sunday's cartoon had a swipe at fishing, saying fishermen loved to hurt their fish. Then it ended with two "bubbas" fishing saying how much more fun it is now that they know it hurts the fish.

    I say we need to diluge dilbert with complaints. Go to dilbert.com and click on the "email Scott Adams" link. Let's let him know we fishermen won't stand for the slam.

    Danny

  9. #9
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    O.k. as an outdoorsman I completly understand the passion behind your sugestions. However I see some very bad words in what what you have written,like ban. When you give fish and wildlife that kind of power where would they stop. I mean if you ban tournements while bass are nesting or during the day why stop there. If its not ok to tournement fish for them at these times.Should people be allowed to fish at all during the mentioned times. As for the cumberland stryper and once you catch your limit you have to quite fishing I have expereianced such regs in alaska. Let me tell you its a long way to go and a lot of money to spend to catch to fish and not be allowed to fish in fresh water in the whole state for the rest of the day. New regulations are not the answer! Education is a much better solution. If enough people know what they are doing is bad for the resource they will do the right thing. Yes there will always be some who abuse. But new or old regs don't affect them. As for showing up at the lake and seeing a sign that says I can't put my boat in because there are allready to many. well thats just not a future I want to visulize.

  10. #10
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    This is a very interesting thread indeed...if it's at all possible, I agree and disagree at the same time...although a good point has been raised in regards to catching fish on the nest.

    Right or wrong, catching the nesting bass sure does seem to go against the grain of what all of us fish-heads seem to preach about catch and release, what's good (not harmful) for the fish, etc. I'm not a tournament guy at all, the main reason is due to lack of time plus I simply do not have a competitive personallity.

    I've never realized or stopped to consider how many tournaments are actually held on any given body of water, but judging from what I read here on this site, there sure does seem to be a lot of tournaments going on now days. I have often entertained the thought of trying to hook into some tournaments simply for the fact that it would MAKE me fish more, MAKE me fish with different people and most likely the outcome of these two things would add up to making me a better fisherman...none the less, back to the original subject.

    I'm against a ban and I sure don't have any answers to what has been posted here, but I do hope a few people out there are able to read this the postings on this thread and maybe stop to consider what's going on with our fishery's when they're catching those nesting bass...

    Fish on men.

  11. #11
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    RE: New fishing reg suggestions

    You mention something to the effect if tournament fishermen shouldn't be able to keep fish during the spawn then other anglers should do the same even going into not allowing fishing during the spawn. What about allowing fishing during the spawn but not keeping? The reason tournaments are targeted this way is although they do practice catch and release they target and take fish off nests which wipes out that nesting effort as the fish are transported away. I firmly believe that fish caught, handled properly, and released immediately (during any season)have a very high survival rate and they will go back to their nests during the spawn. This is true low impact catch-and-release.

    I also disagree with the point that education will help this. Tournament anglers will not give up weigh-ins which is what requires holding the fish for long durations in the warm water seasons and taking fish of the nests in the spring. I don't think any amount of education will change the priority of tournament anglers because their priority is winning and money not minimizing the impact on the fish. Until we can come to terms with that basic premise many of us who do put the fish first will keep pointing out the negative affect tournaments are having on our fisheries (ie educating). Unfortunately our words fall mostly on deaf ears in the tournament circles. Money overrules resource every time.

    I do agree with your thought on over regulating. For the most part more regulation is not a good thing. But tournaments keep increasing in size and frequency on our lakes and I just don't know how much more our waters (and fish) can take (look at Taylorsville). With that said more regulations may be needed to keep things in balance -- much like KDFW has size/creel limits as basic protections to the fishery. I still can't get over the fact that there can be (and often are) multiple, large tournaments on the same lake at the same time and there is no way of preventing that from happening. Why can't we establish "comfortable" usage limits by lake/ramp and require tournaments get a permit which would give oversight and make sure a particular lake/ramp isn't overbooked on a given day? Seems like a simple solution but many would rather have the "freedom" to have hundreds of tournament boats on the same water at the same time than to submit to a permit.

    There is a balance to everything in life and when it comes to tournament fishing and protecting the fish unfortunately we are out of balance.

    kc

  12. #12
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    Hey Danny Let's Sifer Some Numbers.....

    I for one would like to see the less tourneys during the spawn. I know they would'nt ban them unless they rotated no fishing during the spawn on a particular lake on a certain yr.



    Think of it, how many fish are in Cumberland or Kentucky/Barkley, Barren?

    1,000,000,000,000 give or take a few....LOL!!!!
    Now of each specie?

    1,000,000,000 give or take a few..LOL!!!!!!

    Now many boats fish it each day?

    Now this # could be reasonable. I'd say Dave Stewart could probably give an accout of his waters.(Kentucky/Barkley)

    Need some help on Barren.
    Some of you Cumberland fisherman could also shed us some light.APB, SSKY, ProLe, Duane and the other striper fisherman and guides could come up with some numbers on the Striper,/Walleye boats(guides ect)



    Fish for what specie?

    We all know that with the F-n-F gaining more and more popularity that the wintertime fishing catch-rate for Smallmouth bass has really grown off the charts"so-to-speak". And with that more winter tournaments themselves are spawing...
    So that adds to the bass specie list....
    APB, SSKY, ProLe, Duane and the other striper fisherman and guides could come up with some numbers on the Striper,/Walleye



    How many are caught?

    We'll we each now that the tourney guys C and R.
    We know the meat fisherman do not.
    APB, SSKY, ProLe, Duane and the other striper fisherman and guides could come up with some numbers on the Striper,/Walleye


    How many are kept?
    Meat fisherman will keep thier limits and it's THIER right.

    APB, SSKY, ProLe, Duane and the other striper fisherman and guides could come up with some numbers on the Striper,/Walleye



    How many die after riding around in a live well all day or during the fight(Stripers).?
    Most of the tourney guys catch a limit...so that's 5(I think)...

    Most of the tourney guys catch a limit...so that's 5(I think)...

    How many does the spawn produce?

    Need some great power that us to answer that one...

    Let's give it a good shot in answering these questions. We have a lot of good fisherman on this board. SOme of us fish the same waters yr round and have for years. We may not be on the BASS tour, but experience on these waters is an overlooked comodity. We have OUR facts.

    So let's stack some of OUR facts up and see what we come up with.

    Andrew,

    Excellent post......give me a call..

    Billy



    Redneckshadrap
    www.thecreekbank.com
    redneckshadrap@insightbb.com



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