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Thread: West Boggs

  1. #25
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    Re: West Boggs

    Yes, that is what I mean by total renovation.

    Yes, it is possible to use low-dose piscicides that are somewhat shad selective due to application levels. But because it is possible does not mean it is practicle or cost effective. This process is being used for gizzard shad study as well as other porcesses, such as our winter drawdown here.

    Yes, stocking a large preditor would help control shad populations, but again the leve of control and the cost effectivness of that has not seemed to work out well so far. Prior to the 1994 renovation, West Boggs was home to a sizable population of wipers. The shad numbers may be been lower then than now, but not enough to offset the need for the renovation.

    I think the shad at West Boggs were reintroduced as an intentional illegal stocking. Several tips received independantly over a few years time indicated a small group of bass anglers from an area south of the lake. Nothing was produced to take that case to court, but if it had been we were prepared to file a civil suit for damages that would have ran into the millions of dollars. It was, and still is, my opinion that one such suit against an individual or individuaals that took everything they owned would get the right message out about this issue.

    The lake was shad free from 1994 thru 1999 in annual fishery surveys. They came from outside.


    Quote Originally Posted by bmck25 View Post
    Hi Mike,

    Just a few questions here. By total renovation do you mean draw the lake down and treat the lake with retonone? Is it possible to treat the lake every 3-4yrs with retonone at a level that is leathal to shad but leaves other game fish unharmed? And would stocking the lake with a larger predator fish like musky help control the shad population? I believe this is the approach the DNR took with Waveland and it appears to be working thus far. Although the shad do seem to be more and more abundant each year.

    Also, do you believe the shad were reintroduced by some "do-gooder" or do you think they were leftovers from the previous renovation?

    BK McKenney

    May the holes in your net be smaller than the fish in it.

  2. #26
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    Re: Try Some New Lakes

    Mike if someone put the shad back in then where did all the carp come from, did someone stock those as well? If I remember all the streams and creeks were supposed to be killed out around the lake to kill all shad and junk fish is that true? You might want to do a little more research instead of pointing your finger at one person!

  3. #27
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    Re: Try Some New Lakes

    Quote Originally Posted by indiana boy View Post
    Mike if someone put the shad back in then where did all the carp come from, did someone stock those as well? If I remember all the streams and creeks were supposed to be killed out around the lake to kill all shad and junk fish is that true? You might want to do a little more research instead of pointing your finger at one person!
    First, I did not point my finger, and certainly not at one person. If you read my posts here and feel that you are being singled out, that may have more to do with your conscience than my comments. I agree, however, that more research is needed. Some of that needs to be directed at how to discourage future illegal stockings.

    Yes, the 1994 renovation did sample all tributaries and farm ponds in the watershed to look for gizzard shad and carp. Any such water body that was found to contain target species was killed out and restocked in the project.

    After the 1994 renovation annual fisheries studies found Gizzard shad for the first time in 2000, and their numbers and age indicated they were one year olds. Carp were not found again for a few more years, indicating a later introduction date. I am not sure how the carp got back in, but at least two reports indicated that a local man was bragging about putting some in sometime around 2001. And during the battles over the development of sewer service to prevent septic tank effluent from impacting the lake, several anti-sewer folks often repeated the charge that the algae blooms were caused by the previous removal of carp. These statements made in public meetings correspond in date with the return of carp in the surveys.

    There is more that I don’t know about some of this than what I do know. But as long as the angling community continues to refuse to accept that some of their own are doing some things that harm the resource, the next West Boggs renovation, and the great fishing that we know results, is still a long way off.

  4. #28
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    Re: West Boggs

    Thanks for answering the my questions Mike.

  5. #29
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    Re: Try Some New Lakes

    Mike you still didnt ansewer part of my post is there a reason why you cant stock bass yearly or every other year?

  6. #30
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    Re: West Boggs

    I can't speak for Mike but I know a lot of people that would not be in favor of stocking bass. I would rather have them stock bluegill, readear, crappie, and wipers.

    If the DNR would stock bass they were simply be encouraging the very type of behavior that has ruined the fishery for the majority of people that fish there. Most people don't fish for bass. They fish for panfish. The panfish suffer first.

    I think another great idea would be to make tournaments illegal in all bodies of water where shad have been illegally introduced. If I were Mike, I would have banned tourneys the day the shad were confirmed in the lake!!!

  7. #31
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    Re: West Boggs

    Why does everyone always assume that some tournament angler is the one that introduced the shad? Is there any proof to that at all or just more tourney bashing going on? I fish quite a few tourneys and can't say that I have ever seen or heard of anyone carrying shad around with them to stock lakes.
    Eric H.

  8. #32
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    Re: Try Some New Lakes

    Quote Originally Posted by indiana boy View Post
    Mike you still didnt ansewer part of my post is there a reason why you cant stock bass yearly or every other year?
    Again, such decisions must be made around what is practical and cost effective, not just what is possible. West Boggs does not have a hatchery operation in-house. That means there are only two other sources for the stock for a put-and-take bass fishing program. One is from private producers of fish stock, and the other is the state hatcheries. The first of those is cost prohibitive for any large body of public water, and the second is trying hard to keep up with current demand for stock as it is. Current models for fisheries management in the region are built around developing and maintaining balanced multi-species fisheries in which reproduction and harvest goals provide an endless supply after initial stocking. Put-and-take fishing is a very expensive venture.

  9. #33
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    Re: West Boggs

    There really is no need to point the finger for the introduction of shad. There is nothing that can be done about it now, they are in there. The best thing dnr or anyone can do is to help educate the fishing community as a whole that gizzard shad are ultimately not in the best interest of any small fishery. Because shad are so important in the way we approach fishing i think it can be wrongly perceived by someone who didnt know better that they are helpful to a fishery when really they are not.

  10. #34
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    Re: West Boggs

    Hey guys ,
    Mike has a soild point about the shad stocking - if they dont want them in the lake people should not stock them but all it takes is one mis-guided person to ruin it . Case in point there was a show on the other night about snakehead fish being introduced out east and now they are showing up in CA . A oriential man had bought live ones to make a soup for his sick sister { it suppose to have healing properties } but she had got better so following thier custom he released them in a pond in MA . The snakeheads in the Potomick river had apprently come from aquarium releases . Talk about a fishery nightmare - these fish are very aggresive and have very sharp teeth and can survive out of water like a catfish . They also spawn up to 5 times a year . If you have fished Bluegrass you may have noticed the schools of shad in the pit . You also may have noticed that not many bluegill or crappie of any size are caught . Most times the shad will "crowd" out the panfish and while nice bass are caught for a while they too will suffer . Most big bodies of water or rivers have enough resources to go around and dont suffer but a lake the size of Boggs or smaller really doesent benefit from stocking shad . Leave fishery mangement up to the professionals please !

  11. #35
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    Re: West Boggs

    Thanks bassmanic1, and for the record the fisheries professionals involved in this particular instance are the capable folks out of the Avoca shop of the IDNR Division of Fish & Wildlife.

    Anglers who miss the great fishing that Boggs offered just a few years back, need to realize that fixing these problems are inseparable from the concerns over higher fees and license costs. Renovations, like what is now needed again at West Boggs, are not possible to continue on 10-15 year cycles, unless we are all willing to see fees go much, much higher levels. The cold hard facts are that if something does not change the patterns seen in the past, fishing is just going to decline and not be replaced.

    The time is now and the people who can fix this are you and me. The entire fishing community needs to quit the shuck and jive about how all this happens and become the solution to the problem. Any, and I mean ANY, stocking of ANY fish into ANY water that is not done under scientific controls by authorized professionals, is wrong. That needs to be on the cover of every bait container, and on the label of every rod and reel, and on the warning tag on every new boat. And every organization should make it a mantra in their meetings and in their publications and in their rules and regulations, until it sticks.

    And for the record, although it has been said a million times, a big part of the problem is that too many publications and outdoor writers talk about the big benefits of shad forage in southern waters, without explaining that those are threadfin shad, not the gizzard shad we are plagued with in this region. It’s like the difference between a pimple and skin cancer. We should make sure that everyone understands that.

  12. #36
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    Re: West Boggs

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeAxsom View Post

    The time is now and the people who can fix this are you and me. The entire fishing community needs to quit the shuck and jive about how all this happens and become the solution to the problem. Any, and I mean ANY, stocking of ANY fish into ANY water that is not done under scientific controls by authorized professionals, is wrong. That needs to be on the cover of every bait container, and on the label of every rod and reel, and on the warning tag on every new boat. And every organization should make it a mantra in their meetings and in their publications and in their rules and regulations, until it sticks.

    And for the record, although it has been said a million times, a big part of the problem is that too many publications and outdoor writers talk about the big benefits of shad forage in southern waters, without explaining that those are threadfin shad, not the gizzard shad we are plagued with in this region. It’s like the difference between a pimple and skin cancer. We should make sure that everyone understands that.

    Preach it brother!.. your exactly right. Not enough emphasis is being put on illegal stocking. WHY not just check our livewells before we enter a place like west boggs. It would only take a second and might defiantly prevent this if illegal stocking is the culprit. If any outdoor writers might be reading this, please write articles on this problem. SIGNS are cheap. put them up by the ramps. And i think there should be more conservation officers out there. So far it hasnt been treated like a real problem and all it takes to fix it is a little awareness.

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