Economy, boating. and fishing gear.

[HURRICANEBOB]

So the economy is slow, retail sales are slacking in many categories including boat sales, fishing gear, outdoor gear, camping gear, and generally any category where discretionary spending money might go. Gas prices have declined, but that still is not freeing up enough cash for folks to spend on their hobbies, and so the sales stay slow.

Then we get close to the holidays, and the retailers all start to have these magnificent 50-60% off sales. Its the time of year they depend on to make a big piece of their annual sales volume.

So if they can afford to sell this stuff discounted severely at Christmas, just maybe if they made their prices more reasonable ALL YEAR LONG, we might not be seeing such a down turn in the economy. Just maybe this thing is a blessing to our sport. Just maybe if sales stay slow, retailers of all types of outdoor equipment will realize we are not hooked on their gear addictions. Just maybe we the consumers are sending exactly the right message to the manufacturers, that prices have gotten out of hand, they are inflated, and they have finally hit a melt down point that might just force some devaluation, and as a result, drive more realistic pricing in the future.

And just maybe if the retailers decide to keep their prices low, fair, and constant through out the whole year, we all might just buy ALL YEAR LONG.

When I see 50% off anything around Christmas time, it just tells me how badly the retailers were price gouging me ALL YEAR LONG. When I see that severely discounted price, I just make a mental note that this kid ain't buying that thing except when it hits that price again, or at least darn close to it. So pricing credibility goes right down the tubes.

$9000 off a new pickup truck? You mean if I bought one 3 days before that glorious announcement, that I got overpriced by $9000 on my deal? If that happens to a guy, do the car dealers really think the guy is going to ever trust their prices again? So why not sell that truck for $4500 off ALL YEAR LONG, as an example. When I see a big new truck discount, I don't buy, I see that as just the beginning, and I wait to see the next shoe drop. Cause really, how many times did you see $2000 off a truck in October, then see it hit $4500 in November, then see it go to a whooping $9000 off in say December or January? So how do you buy with confidence in the price?

And just maybe if retail prices were lower, and more stable, there would be a more constant demand, and as a result, folks who work in manufacturing, distribution, and retail would have more dependable, consistent, and secure jobs. When a guy is secure in his employment, he's willing to do some discretionary spending, and thats good for the economy including the boating and fishing industries.

Just a thought......gonna go get another beer now.

[phoenix]

HB;
We've been gouged so long and hard, I guess we've gotten used to it. I agree exactly with what you are saying here, but there is way too much GREED in this society nowadays. I don't get it, seems like they would rather make a 100% profit on a product and waste half of their inventory by liquidation, rather than make 50% and sell everything they produce. There is just so much waste in this country, i think thats partly the reason we are where we are.
Yea, if I bought a new truck just b4 those big discounts went into effect, me and the dealer would have some serious words !

[mhall]

HB;
We've been gouged so long and hard, I guess we've gotten used to it. I agree exactly with what you are saying here, but there is way too much GREED in this society nowadays. I don't get it, seems like they would rather make a 100% profit on a product and waste half of their inventory by liquidation, rather than make 50% and sell everything they produce. There is just so much waste in this country, i think thats partly the reason we are where we are.
Yea, if I bought a new truck just b4 those big discounts went into effect, me and the dealer would have some serious words !

Very well put Phoenix, this is exactly what I was trying to say in another thread to a poster that said there was no such thing as price gouging. Anyway I like the way you worded this and I 100% agree with you!!!!!!!

[MrSplitshot]

This is a hard one for me, because I'm responsible for a retail store that struggles to get by on 40% gross profit, on average. It's hard to lump all retailers together though, because things differ quite a bit across different industries.

For instance, in my business we've had a problem over the last couple of years with our prices on trailer hitches going up. That's not because we chose to price them higher and make more cash - It's because our suppliers took price increases from the manufacturers and crap flows downhill. When the price of steel goes up for whatever reason, and the manufacturer's cost in building a hitch increases, their price to distributors goes up, and the distributor's price to the retailer goes up. It's a supply chain thing, every link on it takes a hit, and it all ends with a higher price paid by the consumer. Throw in that my health insurance for employees and fuel costs are a whole lot higher than they used to be, the lease holder on the building renegotiated the rent higher, and it costs me more to heat the showroom and keep the lights on during the day...that 40% gross profit doesn't pay the bills like it used to. Now I'm trying to get 50% at retail just to keep the bar set where it used to be. It's easy to pin the higher prices on that "greedy retailer" that you're visiting, after all, that's the face you see, but that's not always the culprit. I'd be more inclined to pin the greed at the corporate/manufacturer level on the chain...and I would definitely agree with you that there are some greedy palms out there.

As for the discounted prices on stuff at Christmas, retailers are counting on the odds that when you come in to buy that highly discounted widget you might buy some other stuff that's not so highly discounted. They aren't making much money on the bargain basement door buster stuff. They are loss-leaders to get you in the door, and many consider those "wash sales" as "advertising cost" on the P&L. If all you do is walk in, buy the big deal, and walk out...all the retailer has accomplished is turning a unit of inventory at low/no margin.

Also, I think the car industry is in a league of its own. Just because you're getting $9K off a Ford truck today though, doesn't mean that the dealer was making $9K more on it yesterday. The manufacturers offer the rebates and incentives, there is dealer holdback, financing incentives, etc.
I'm not saying dealers are squeaky clean on the greed thing, but I'm not sure they always control their own destiny 100%.

Just wait and see what happens when the administration starts taxing corporations more to pay for these bailouts - You think they won't see that as an increased "cost" in doing business and pass it all the way down the chain to you? Think again.

[JD7.62]

This is a hard one for me, because I'm responsible for a retail store that struggles to get by on 40% gross profit, on average. It's hard to lump all retailers together though, because things differ quite a bit across different industries.

For instance, in my business we've had a problem over the last couple of years with our prices on trailer hitches going up. That's not because we chose to price them higher and make more cash - It's because our suppliers took price increases from the manufacturers and crap flows downhill. When the price of steel goes up for whatever reason, and the manufacturer's cost in building a hitch increases, their price to distributors goes up, and the distributor's price to the retailer goes up. It's a supply chain thing, every link on it takes a hit, and it all ends with a higher price paid by the consumer. Throw in that my health insurance for employees and fuel costs are a whole lot higher than they used to be, the lease holder on the building renegotiated the rent higher, and it costs me more to heat the showroom and keep the lights on during the day...that 40% gross profit doesn't pay the bills like it used to. Now I'm trying to get 50% at retail just to keep the bar set where it used to be. It's easy to pin the higher prices on that "greedy retailer" that you're visiting, after all, that's the face you see, but that's not always the culprit. I'd be more inclined to pin the greed at the corporate/manufacturer level on the chain...and I would definitely agree with you that there are some greedy palms out there.

As for the discounted prices on stuff at Christmas, retailers are counting on the odds that when you come in to buy that highly discounted widget you might buy some other stuff that's not so highly discounted. They aren't making much money on the bargain basement door buster stuff. They are loss-leaders to get you in the door, and many consider those "wash sales" as "advertising cost" on the P&L. If all you do is walk in, buy the big deal, and walk out...all the retailer has accomplished is turning a unit of inventory at low/no margin.

Also, I think the car industry is in a league of its own. Just because you're getting $9K off a Ford truck today though, doesn't mean that the dealer was making $9K more on it yesterday. The manufacturers offer the rebates and incentives, there is dealer holdback, financing incentives, etc.
I'm not saying dealers are squeaky clean on the greed thing, but I'm not sure they always control their own destiny 100%.

Just wait and see what happens when the administration starts taxing corporations more to pay for these bailouts - You think they won't see that as an increased "cost" in doing business and pass it all the way down the chain to you? Think again.

Very well put and I agree with you 100% on everything, especially the last point.

I dont understand why people think taxing the rich and mega corporations more and more and giving lower income people tax breaks helps the economy.

My wife and I struggling very hard to raise our daughter right now and at the moment we are FAR from living comortably but you will not hear me complain how the .gov is taking my money when they should just take from the rich.

The way I see it is, if these mega corporations and rich business owners who offer products and services that I buy and use are taxed even more then they are now, who is going to eat that tax? ME!! Yeah I might get a little break on my taxes, but at best we break even with the rise in cost of the goods I buy. Somehow I doubt the money I save on my tax break will cover the increase in cost of the goods/services I buy from these evil rich corporations....

I say allow the suppliers to operate as efficiently and cheaply as possible to produce a good and let the demand set the price and profit maragin. Do not put measures in place such as unreasonable taxes and environmental restrictions that will artifically raise the cost of production and in the end the cost to the consumers to a point where the demand for that item will fall due to the high price the producers must sell at to make a living.

[mhall]

Not ALL companies lay the pipe to people but some do. Some because of Unions and fat cats, some because they choose to so they can pay there upper management millions of dollars every year. Q, you and Jason make good points and you are correct, but there are those that are just plain sinful greedy and here in America some of this downfall can be directly linked to it in my opinion. I work for a small company and we have to sell products in today's terms at cost and sometimes below to keep the doors open, so I know exactly where you are coming from.
Ask yourself this....... 20 years ago a guy could buy a brand new truck, a nice one for about 8 to 10 thousand dollars. That same truck today was over 31 thousand dollars, was greed and decadence on a large corperate scale any part of that at all?????????

[JD7.62]

Sometimes I have a hard time with the word greed. The idea of any business is to make the most money possible.

My idea is that government should keep their grimey hands out of private business. There are many examples today of companies that have collapsed due to pure greed of their higher ups and I say let them fall. Take this auto bail out BS. These auto companies are in the stink pile they are in because of the union's BS, the big wig perks, and all of the other things that I can clearly identify as greed. In the Detroit crisis, most of me wants to say let them fall, some of me can see how important the success of these companies are to thousands and thousands of hard working everyday Americans that have nothing to do with the mess they are in now. I'm not even close to being smart enough to say whats best for those everyday workers and the country as a whole though.

[Devils Horse]

I agree with most points made, and there are no easy answers.

Most things are dropping in price because people just aren't buying things right now, and haven't been for a while. Manufacturers and retailers are selling at dirt cheap prices just to hang on. Everything from houses to vehicles to luxury items are at bargain basement prices.

Bad for the economy I guess, but great if you're in the market to buy.

Boats and outboards have been severely overpriced for years, mostly because people were willing to take on huge debts to have them. IMO makers and dealers of bass rigs are about to experience a world of hurt that many won't make it through.

I'm deeply worried about our country, but if gas prices stay low, the economy will pick up. I'm also looking forward to the tax cuts Mr. Obama promised, maybe that will help the economy too.

[Bobby Headrick]

Yes new trucks for under 10grand, loaded boats for under 100 mth, but who can afford an extra payment now, I am now wondering if I will have a job soon, but I have hope things will improve. Yes things like cars/trucks/boats etc have been overpriced for years, the easy credit made it that way, just sign and drive. Those days are gone.

[MrSplitshot]

Not ALL companies lay the pipe to people but some do. Some because of Unions and fat cats, some because they choose to so they can pay there upper management millions of dollars every year. Q, you and Jason make good points and you are correct, but there are those that are just plain sinful greedy and here in America some of this downfall can be directly linked to it in my opinion. I work for a small company and we have to sell products in today's terms at cost and sometimes below to keep the doors open, so I know exactly where you are coming from.
Ask yourself this....... 20 years ago a guy could buy a brand new truck, a nice one for about 8 to 10 thousand dollars. That same truck today was over 31 thousand dollars, was greed and decadence on a large corperate scale any part of that at all?????????

Good points there too Mhall...especially about companies paying millions to their management. We deal with one company that has passed down more than one across-the-board price increase this year, yet we hear tales of the upper management getting bigger bonuses this year...and they don't make small change to start with. That is also a "cost of doing business" to some of these companies, and I think it's one that is TOO HIGH in many cases. To "manage expenses" they look to cut jobs, they look to cut benefits to workers, they look to a foreign country for cheap labor, they beat suppliers to death for the best possible skinny margin they can give them on raw materials...but they never can seem to make any cuts to salaries and perks for the big boys up top can they? That's a crock, really.

There are so many things that have played into this mess we're in, you could write all day and never get it all spit out...it's a shame really.

Here's something else to think about: Look at how many companies started charging "fuel surcharges" for deliveries, freight, or service calls back when gas was unreal...my company did it...but how many of them have stopped charging the surcharge now that gas has come down to lower levels than it was when they started? Greed, or just a way to conveniently make a few more bucks to help the bottom line as long as nobody yells about it?

[DJD]

Here's something else to think about: Look at how many companies started charging "fuel surcharges" for deliveries, freight, or service calls back when gas was unreal...my company did it...but how many of them have stopped charging the surcharge now that gas has come down to lower levels than it was when they started? Greed, or just a way to conveniently make a few more bucks to help the bottom line as long as nobody yells about it?

We did add the fuel trip surcharge to all of our service calls 2 years ago and actually raised it this year. We don't plan on lowering it anytime soon but we have been waving it for local (fayette county) calls. Sending a tech to Bell or Pike County is 6 hours windshield time and alot of gas so we have kept that charge. Some of our calls are a 30 minute fix but the customer still pays for our time there and back. Your right on, if we get an irate customer we will work with them on the charges.

[zx150]

We have been getting like tied goats for years.