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  1. #1
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    Another Dumber than a Rock

    Below is from the Insight Home page:

    "By Michelle Nichols

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Muslim, Jewish, Christian and civic groups formed a coalition on Wednesday to back a plan for a Muslim center near the site of the World Trade Center attacks in New York that has sparked heated national debate.

    The cultural center and mosque face fierce opposition from conservative politicians and people who consider its location insensitive to families of the nearly 3,000 people killed in the September 11 attacks by al Qaeda militants in 2001.

    But the newly formed New York Neighbors for American Values, made up of more than 40 religious and civic groups, said the debate was creating fear and division and that it would fight for U.S. constitutional freedoms to be upheld.

    "We were not attacked by the Muslim world," said Donna O'Connor, spokeswoman for September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, whose pregnant daughter was killed in the World Trade Center attacks. "We 100 percent fully support the Islamic cultural center in New York City."

    I am beginning to believe that the American People, in general, are becoming DUMBER THAN A ROCK.

    According to the article, we have Christians and Jews working to help a religion that has vowed to, aims to, desires to, avowed to, etc, destroy or subjugate all Christions, Jews, and any other non-bleievers and bring them under Shria. This is just another example of how uninformed the American public is. I can't help but wonder just how much support Christians and Jews would get if they tried to build a Church or Temple in Mecca. I know the anwer, ABSOLUTELY NONE because Christians, Jews and all other non-Muslims are FORBIDDEN FROM EVEN ENTERING MECCA.

    The Muslims are using our openness and political correctness destroy the U.S. Constitutional freedoms and to bury us.

    Grumpy

  2. #2
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    Grumpy, You are correct, Christians and Jews cannot build a church or Temple in Mecca. That is because they do not have freedom of religion as we do. If we do not allow this Muslim Center to be built we will be as bad as they are. Are you saying that our Muslim citizens should not have the same Constitutional freedoms as the rest of us?

  3. #3
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    fishraker, I am saying that: "The Muslims are using our openness and political correctness destroy the U.S. Constitutional freedoms and to bury us."

    Grumpy

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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    A couple more thoughts on this:

    [FONT=Arial]Experts worry the controversy surrounding an Islamic center near ground zero in Lower Manhattan is playing right into the hands of radical extremists.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial]The supercharged debate over the proposed center has attracted the attention of a quiet, underground audience — young Muslims who drift in and out of jihadi chat rooms and frequent radical Islamic sites on the Web. It has become the No. 1 topic of discussion in recent days and proof positive, according to some of the posted messages, that America is indeed at war with Islam. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial]"This, unfortunately, is playing right into their hands," said Evan F. Kohlmann, who tracks these kinds of websites and chat rooms for Flashpoint Global partners, a New York-based security firm. "Extremists are encouraging all this, with glee. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial]"It is their sense that by doing this that Americans are going to alienate American Muslims to the point where even relatively moderate Muslims are going to be pushed into joining extremist movements like al-Qaida. They couldn't be happier."[/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial]
    Rest at:

    [COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129387963&ft=1&f=1001[/COLOR]


    -----------------------

    Congressman Ron Paul today released the following statement on the controversy concerning the construction of an Islamic Center and Mosque in New York City:

    Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

    It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.”

    The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

    Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

    Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

    In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

    They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

    The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

    The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

    Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

    This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

    There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

    If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

    The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

    Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

    Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam–the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

    It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.

    The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.

    The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam.

    This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

    We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

    Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.


    [COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.ronpaul.com/2010-08-20/ron-paul-sunshine-patriots-stop-your-demagogy-about-the-nyc-mosque/[/COLOR]
    [/FONT]

  5. #5
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    Andreew, you have highjacked the point of my post, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE MUSLIMS SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD THE MOSQUE. What I am saying is that Americans had better wake up unless they want to start living under Shirai.

    Grumpy

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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
    Andreew, you have highjacked the point of my post, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE MUSLIMS SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD THE MOSQUE. What I am saying is that Americans had better wake up unless they want to start living under Shirai.

    Grumpy
    So you think if the mosque is built then pretty soon the US will be predominately a muslim nation with no Christian values?

  7. #7
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    The way this thread is going is another example of how short sighted and narrow minded most Amaricans are and why I say we are DUMBER THAN A ROCK. All anyone seems to want to comment on is the MOSQUE, while what I am referring to is: "the newly formed New York Neighbors for American Values, made up of more than 40 religious and civic groups,".

    We have to be dumber than a rock when our religious and civic groups are siding with and helping a religion and its organizations THAT ARE TRYING TO DESTROY US and put America (and the world) under Shiria.

    I am done trying to explain it, I am just glad that, in all probability, I won't live to see it.

    Grumpy

  8. #8
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    This is an interesting thread that Grumpy started...but I'm having trouble following it. It seems to be contradicting in a way...I'm not understanding it.

  9. #9
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    Andreew, you have highjacked the point of my post, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE MUSLIMS SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BUILD THE MOSQUE. What I am saying is that Americans had better wake up unless they want to start living under Shirai.
    Actually, I think the post I made gets to the heart of what you are saying. You seem to think that ALL Muslims want to destroy us and subjugate us all to Shiria law. Both articles point to the fact that this is not the case and that by continuing along these lines (they all hate us) we are doing ourselves more harm. Pretty much just giving al queda and similar groups more ammo to use against us in the "hearts and minds" department and convincing more young, moderate, Muslims to join their cause.

    In case I am still missing your point, and to keep things on topic, smarten us up. What are you proposing we do?

    Andrew

  10. #10
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
    The way this thread is going is another example of how short sighted and narrow minded most Amaricans are and why I say we are DUMBER THAN A ROCK. All anyone seems to want to comment on is the MOSQUE, while what I am referring to is: "the newly formed New York Neighbors for American Values, made up of more than 40 religious and civic groups,".

    We have to be dumber than a rock when our religious and civic groups are siding with and helping a religion and its organizations THAT ARE TRYING TO DESTROY US and put America (and the world) under Shiria.

    I am done trying to explain it, I am just glad that, in all probability, I won't live to see it.

    Grumpy
    Actually the way this thread is going is an example of how, when one does not express one's self clearly, conversations are likely to head off in multiple directions.

    Fishraker asked the most logical question immediately after your post, Grumpy. As a matter of fact, (s)he assimilated the gist of your post, considered what that might entail, and pointed out the obvious dilemma.

    You avoided that question and simply re-quoted your first post. So, yes, please, smarten us up!

  11. #11
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
    fishraker, I am saying that: "The Muslims are using our openness and political correctness destroy the U.S. Constitutional freedoms and to bury us."

    Grumpy
    So...ALL the Muslims are using our constitutional freedoms (ie political correctness and openess) to destroy our constitutional freedoms and destroy us? That in itself is contradictory. The mere fact that the Muslim religion, as a whole, keep getting grouped together with the RADICAL extremists that actually DO want to destroy America and persecute Christians is unbelievably narrow-minded. I will state the truth as I see it...the Muslim religion (as most Muslims believe, not the radicals) does not intend nor vow to destroy or subjugate all Christions, Jews, and any other non-believers and bring them under Shria. Indeed, it is NOT just another example of how uninformed the American public is, but rather this thread and similar ones in the past are just other examples of how uninformed SOME people in America are.

    Rarely do I share my opinion (which is of no greater value or no more right than ANYONE else's on this thread) but it seems that posts on this board are illustrating increasing intolerance of mexicans (albeit legal or illegal immigrants), african americans, muslims, and others that do not fall into the conservative category (for which I consider myself a part of). Is this any more righteous than what we are condemning??

  12. #12
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    Re: Another Dumber than a Rock

    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
    Below is from the Insight Home page:

    "By Michelle Nichols

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Muslim, Jewish, Christian and civic groups formed a coalition on Wednesday to back a plan for a Muslim center near the site of the World Trade Center attacks in New York that has sparked heated national debate.

    The cultural center and mosque face fierce opposition from conservative politicians and people who consider its location insensitive to families of the nearly 3,000 people killed in the September 11 attacks by al Qaeda militants in 2001.

    But the newly formed New York Neighbors for American Values, made up of more than 40 religious and civic groups, said the debate was creating fear and division and that it would fight for U.S. constitutional freedoms to be upheld.

    "We were not attacked by the Muslim world," said Donna O'Connor, spokeswoman for September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows, whose pregnant daughter was killed in the World Trade Center attacks. "We 100 percent fully support the Islamic cultural center in New York City."

    I am beginning to believe that the American People, in general, are becoming DUMBER THAN A ROCK.

    According to the article, we have Christians and Jews working to help a religion that has vowed to, aims to, desires to, avowed to, etc, destroy or subjugate all Christions, Jews, and any other non-bleievers and bring them under Shria. This is just another example of how uninformed the American public is. I can't help but wonder just how much support Christians and Jews would get if they tried to build a Church or Temple in Mecca. I know the anwer, ABSOLUTELY NONE because Christians, Jews and all other non-Muslims are FORBIDDEN FROM EVEN ENTERING MECCA.

    The Muslims are using our openness and political correctness destroy the U.S. Constitutional freedoms and to bury us.

    Grumpy
    Naw, there just trying to get them into the local tax base!

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