Coast Guard Regulating Cumberland and Dale Hollow

[Dave Stewart]

Jim: I am in agreement that Cumberland and Dale Hollow should definitely be taken off the Inland Water Shipping System since there is no commercial traffic on these lakes.

I would however point out that unless you know something I don't know...the state of Tennessee does NOT license nor regulate fishing guides.

I would take exception with the statement in your letter quote: "The Coast Guard is NOT providing a Safer environment on inland Lakes" The Coast Guard does a lot more than just regulate fishing guides. They provide boat safety inspections, boater safety classes and assist boaters in distress among other things.

You are certainly right in that the Coast Guard has a tough time or doesn't have time to enforce the regulation as it should be regulated. If they did then there would not be so many guides here on Ky/Barkley that do not have a Captain's (OUPV) license still operating. If this is true here then I am sure it is happening on Dale and Cumberland.

On the other side of the coin, here is the difference in requiements of a state licensed guide and a guide holding a Captain's license:

OUPV:
1. Has undergone an extensive background check to include police and FBI files.
2. Has undergone an extensive medical physical (this is probably too extensive for the business but some areas such as vision, hearing, and reflexes should be kept)
3. Has been drug tested and is enrolled in a random drug testing program.
4. Is currently CPR and First Aid certified by the American Red Cross.
5. Has completed an extensive exam on Navigation, Boating Safety etc....(this exam is probably too extensive but does have a lot of merit in many areas)
6. Is required to have aboard their vessel many safety items not required by state of Ky or Tennessee.
7. Must document a minumum number of hours of having been operating the vessel or like vessel they will be using over the past number or years (it is either 3 or 5 years...I would have to go back and look it up but it is one or the other)

A guide that is regulated on by the state (no OUPV license)

1. Kentucky: must have a license application signed each year by a KDFW enforcement officer. (The officer signs a statement that in effect says that the guide is of good character)

2. Tennessee: no requirements

Other than the above the states of Ky or Tenn do not have any other requirements except those that are required of any boater on their waters.

My point here is this: If the states had a few more requirements for guides to ensure the safety of the public maybe congress would be more likely to change the regulations for licensing of fishing guides.

[cumberlandguy1]

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[KyJames]

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[KyJames]

Guides should have to pass a physical every year in several areas, including hearing, vision, and swimming/endurance. Should one of their clinents fall overboard they need to be able to save the client, and they should also have to pass CPR and hypo=thermia classes, and any other test that may present itself to these folks who people trust their lives to.

James

[cumberlandguy1]

Have to agree with you on all those points James. I have fished with several guides on the lake in the past couple of years. By far the most knowledgeable and most professional was Jeff Burton who fishes out of Alligator #2. He would probably be one of the few that would fit all of those things that you mentioned. I'll continue to fish with him as long as he is guiding.

[Dave Stewart]

Swimming/endurance? So how long do you want me to swim and how far? I am all for guides needing to be trained in CPR and First Aid..which by the way includes classes on recognizing and treating hypothermia. But now you want me to be a swimming pool life guard too? I can see that a guide needs to know how to swim but endurance testing is a little over the top. Fact is more people would probably drown if the guide jumped in the water to "save" them. More better the guide stay in the boat, manuever the boat and throw them a lifeline and assist them back into the boat than to have the two of them now in freezing water trying to get back into the boat.
Just for your information: This subject of a man overboard is covered in the Coast Guard licensing training and what I telling you is a reflection of that training.

[JoeB]

Jim, I agree with you whole heartedly. I have been a guide on Cumberland for 10 years and have renewed my coast guard lic. twice. I've never jumped through so much red tape in my life. I had to drive to Mamphis to take the test, then drive to Louisville to swear to obey my commander. Never felt so stupid. I agree that the KDFWR license should require more than it does, but that's another issue. L. Cumb. is no more navagatable than a farm pond and the Coast Guard has no business here. FWIW in the 10 years I've been a guide, I have yet to see a coast guard boat on the lake, although I know they are occasionally here. It's hard not to get the feeling that they are just fishing for a little pocket money.

Here's a little story about how seriously they take it. Two years ago I got a call from the Lville office and they told me I had to take a random drug test. I went to Somerset and peed in the cup and then called the Lville office and asked them what they wanted me to do with the test voucher. The guy asked me if it was pos. or neg. I said it was negative, of course, and he said to just throw it away. Fifty bucks down the drain.

Let the right people regulate the guides and set standards for on board equipment, CPR, etc., and let the coast guard guard the coast.

[bcoan]

I agree the U S coast guard should have much more important duties
than chasing down fishing guides. At my swearing in ceremony I told
the coast guard commander that I did not have a commanding officer
because I divorced that bitch five years ago. I was told if I did not
repeat the oath I would get no license. As a self employed civilian
just who would be my commanding officer? The part about one year sea
duty is also a joke--I have never been on a sea in my life, yet they require my to state the days and hours I have been at sea.

My license is up for renewal now and I have never been asked for it
nor have I seen a coast guard boat on Dale Hollow. You are correct
this is just another way for uncle sam to get in our pocket.

Bass Wishes
Bob Coan

[Dave Stewart]

Bob and Phil: Like I said before...I definitely agree that Cumberland and Dale need to be eliminated from the list of Inland Navagable Water. It makes no sense that you guys are required to have an OUPV license when guides on Barren and other like lakes are not.

When this first came up years ago I, like you I am sure, fought it but to no avail. If they had come up with a program that treated all inland fishing guides the same I might have supported it but it does not and as you all mentioned...the program treats us like commercial seamen which we are not.

Bob..I loved that comment about who was your commanding officer..lol.

When the Coast Guard held their area meeting down here for all the guides to attend when this first came up years ago, I got up and asked the question about which Admiral was bucking for another star by coming with this program to generate some more money...that made be about as popular as I am sure your comment about your commanding officer did you...lol.

Anyway, maybe with Jim's effort and some of the other folks here effort you guys will get relieved of having to deal with this program. I am sure I and the other guides here on Ky/Barkley will be living with it from now on since we do have commercial traffic here. No way to convince anyone it is more dangerous to dodge a fleet of 30 and 40 ft party yachts than it is to pass a barge..lol.

I do believe the program has requirements that makes guides more safety oriented such as the cpr, first aid etc...but the program is definitely overkill.

[JimDicken]

If someone falls overboard the guide is NOT going to have to swim to get them out of the water. I was a LIFE GUARD. The rule is Throw, ROW then go.. in other words throw a rope, row to them or swim. Since the guide is IN A BOAT swimming is not needed. All that is needed is a way for someone to get back in the boat and a simple rope ladder will work for that, as will a helping hand. Bass Boats have enough stability to be able to get someone back into the boat with a simple hand help. As all boaters as well as guides have life jackets and other floatation devices your idea is MOOT!
NO GUIDE has ever been involved in an injury or accident in the HISTORY of the KYDFWR or TWRA.
NEXT QUESTION?

[JimDicken]

I am all for the State Requiring Guides to have CPR training and to be able to see etc..But the Guides have the same requirement as PILOTS in their physicals.
I am all for safety. Training in Hypothermia etc.. I know Bob Coan. Bob wears a Thermal Suit when fishing in winter and keeps a dry one in the locker in case of emergency. HE REFUSES to wear a helmet so that he will be experiencing the SAME conditions as his customers. IF HE can not stand it..then they can not.
The COAST GUARD does not need to be on these lakes.
IT is a waste of their time, a waste of resources and accomplishes NOTHING. State regulations can be adjusted to solve ANY problem the Coast Guard has with inland lakes.
Jim Dicken

[KyJames]

Dave,

you make good points about cold water and a overboard person, but lets say that for some unforseen reason, after all, you too are human, your boat either catches fire, or wrecks. You are still responsible for the person you are guiding. you should be required to be in good enough physical shape to make sure you get your client to safety.

thats all I'm sayin'.

Think about it this way, don't you have insurance, and probably a lot more than the average guy? Think about the physical requirements as the same thing... extra insurance that the average guy don't have to have.