why the three way?

[LarryG]

I heard that some guys are using a 3 way swivel with the FNF,OK, I can see the main line and the leader, but now what? Do you make the bobber with a leader? I always just used the fly, and a bobber, never bothered with a snap swivel, although that would make it easier to change colors and sizes, but the 3 way has me stumped.

[Grumpy]

From what I have seen on this board, and several places elsewhere, the vast majority of people use a three way swivel with the FnF. Attach the main line to one ring, attach the bobber to another, and the leader to the third ring. From my limited experience, if the fly gets hung-up ,usually the leader will break off and you won't loose the bobber or main line.

Grumpy

[fishhunter]

It gives the fly much more action. And the extra engineering of the weighted bobber makes this method deadley.

[R19]

I prefer the three way because it gives you something solid to attach the bobber to. You can attach the bobber to the line but when using 6lb test I prefer not to take a chance on putting a nick/stress mark on the line. With the three way you can now use 8lb as the main line and 6lb on the leader some people even use 4lb on the leader. You do not want to use large line on such a small jig it will take away from the action. You will let the long limber 8-10ft rod wear the fish down you dont want to pressure the fish on lite line and light tackle. In my opinion (for what its worth LOL) the key to the three way is the Type of bobber you use.

When fishing the FnF you are targeting suspended small mouth. The fly will be above the fish and when they swim up and hit the fly most of the time they will pull back down and your floater quickly disappears.

However sometimes they continue upwards and that is when the three way with a weighted bobber will come in handy. As soon as you get the strike if the fish does not pull back down because of the low center of gravity in the bobber it will suddenly just lay over to one side.

A couple more things that I like about the three way is when fishing bluffs or close to a bank or grass if your cast is too close to the cover/structure the fly will set on the bottom and with a regular bobber you will never know but with the weighted bobber it will lay on its side until the weight of the fly is susponded in open water pulling the bobber upright. If you know you are in open water count and see how long it takes for the bobber to set upright if the time has went way over start relling slack and set the hook you just got a bite on the fall.

I still consider myself new to FnF. I started 3 or 4 years ago and was convinced that you could just use a regular small bobber and attach it straight to the line. Well you can...but after a couple trips with a guy that really knows FnF I quickly learned the three way with Bob's Bobber is a much better method.


To clarify when I refer to a weighted bobber I am talking about a 1 inch bobber that used to have the weight on the outside and at the bottom. It has been cut open and modified so the weight is inside the bobber and at the bottom. The only distrubitor that I am aware of is Punisher Jigs. They are called Bob's Bobbers.

R19

[LarryG]

still confused, are you saying thatthe bobber will be on a seperate leader?If so will this second leader be the one that controlls the depth?So will I need a 10 ft leader on the bobber, a 10 ft flouo leader to the jig, and my braid to the remaining open eye of the 3 way?seems combersome. I use either a 10/2 spioder wire or a 15/4 spider main line, its sort of hard to nick those lines.

[crappiepappy]

No, Larry ... the clip of the bobber is attached to the 3way swivel eye --- the leader line is on a seperate eye (tied directly to swivel) --- main line is tied to the third swivel eye.
You won't kink, nick, or stress braid with a clamp-on bobber ... but, the bobber will slip on braid. To keep that from happening, the braid is usually wrapped several times around the bobber clip. But, even so ... the dynamics of the cast can cause the line to come off the bobber clip (or so I'm told)

All the 3way swivel users are doing, is using the swivel as the center point of the rig. Main line comes from rod to swivel - bobber is clipped to swivel eye - leader line runs from swivel to jig. There is NO line used to attach the bobber to the swivel ... it's just clipped onto the ring eye of one of the three ring eyes of the swivel. And I don't think they use a very large 3way swivel, either ... you have to take into account the weight of the swivel AND the jig, when using a counter-weighted bobber.
At least, that's my understanding of the how & why of using a 3way swivel.

.... cp

[Grumpy]

Your main line, the Spiderwire, is tied to one ring, then the bottom of the bobber is attached to the next ring, and finally your fly leader is attached to the third ring. Neither of the lines is attached directly to the bobber. Once you get the hand of the cast, its not cumbersome at all--believe me, if I can do it (after a little practice) anyone can do it. The 10' rod is a must when using a 10' or 12' leader.

Grumpy

PS: Looks like Crappypappie and I were posting at the same time.

[Moose1am]

OK I have been thinking about this ever since last year when I read that people had been using a three way swivel to fish float and fly.

Here is what I figured out. One has to tie TWO knots. Each knot has the potential to break. Therefore you have twice the change of having the knot break or slip with TWO knots vs One knot. Imagine hooking into a big world record small mouth bass and loosing it due to a knot breaking. Even a Palomar knot can break.

Some say that it gives the bait more action. Not sure about this or not. It could well give it more action. I really don't know.

I do know that I catch a lot of fish using a regular slip float and bobber stops with a bead and either a jig or minnow hook tied directly to the line. And if you want a bobber to stay in place the Betts Styrofoam bobbers come with plastic pegs that will peg the bobber and line in one spot without pinching the line.

In clear water you may wish to use a line that harder for the fish to see. Fish see things in the water because those things in the water have a different refractive index that water. Some objects are opaque and solid. Some are transparent. Fish when young can see the tiny zooplankton suspended in the water. If they can see these tiny creatures and feed on them then that tells me that they have very good eyesight. It takes a 10x to 40X magnifying lens for humans to see these tiny plankton.

I studied microscopy so I know a little more about microscopes that the average Joe. I learned in school about refractive indexies of transparent crystals. Take a class in mineralogy and you will learn this too. I learned this from a geology in a short 40 hour class on identifying asbestos crystals under the polarizing light microscope. He took the mineralogy class and summarized it for me. I also read about this subject as well to further my knowledge.

Why am I talking about refractive index in a fishing forum? Well because fishing line also has a refractive index. Modern monofiliment fishing lines are a crystalline in nature and being transparent they also slow light waves down when light enter the crystal structure of the fishing line. Light waves bend when slowing down and this is called refraction. Refractive index is a measure of how much the light slows down and changes direction. This can be measured with a polarizing light microscope by using reference glass particles along side the item of interest. I won't go into any more detail on how this is done but suffice it to say that we can measure the RI of water and fishing lines.

The interesting thing about Refractive Index (RI) is that if two transparent things have identical RI they can't be distinguished from each other. One blends into the other optically.

So if your fishing line has the same RI of the water you are fishing it becomes practically INVISIBLE to the fish.

This is why some fishing lines get more bites than others maybe. And we know that the smaller the diameter of the fishing line the harder it's going to be to see it. We also know that the smaller the diameter the easier the fishing line breaks.

So we must compromise between being strong and invisible. Lines that have a RI closer to that of water can become more invisible to the fish even if they have a larger diameter. That's the key to catching AND LANDING more fish. It also is critical for the knot strength of the fishing line.

Give me a slip float and a 7 ft long ultra light casting rod and a good open faced spinning reel with 6lb test line and I'll catch my share of small mouth bass if I get in the right spot.

It does not take a lot of movement of the bait to attract fish in very cold water. In fact the less movement the better. Creatures move very slowly in cold water. I read the other day in the new In-Fisherman Critical Concepts #2 Book Crappie Location that fish in 34 deg Water have limited muscle movement. Water freezes at 32 deg and fish being cold blooded take on the surrounding water temperature. Muscles don't function well in cold water even for cold water animals.

I personally don't really understand why a three way with bobber would work any better than a regular slip float. And it's a hell of a lot easier to cast the slip float than a rig with a fixed bobber with 12 ft of line beyond the bobber.

The only real difference would a fixed float will make the jig or bait arc downward as it falls though the water. It will swing as if on a pendulum. But I can do the same thing with a longer rod (12 ft BnM Float and Fly rod or even a super Sensitive Sam Heaton) and a fixed Betts float with the plastic peg installed and the bobber set at 12 ft.

Now I could also do the same thing with a clear plastic bubble bobber half filled with water to increase my casting distance.

I would think that it would help to get the bait further away from the boat in most cases when fish are suspended near the surface and the water is very clear.


If the action is that much different using the bobber tied to the line vs squeezed in place with the plastic peg then I'll be surprise. I just can't see there being that much difference in the bait's action between the two rigs.

[Grumpy]

Moose1am, would you mind repeating that, I am not sure I understood what you are trying to say!!

Grumpy

[Bonefish]

Moose, thanks for the food for thought. There is always more than one way to skin a cat. I know last week I was drift fishing with shinners and my little ultra-light with 6 lb line was catching Ky's 4 to 1 to my other reels which were lined with 8 and 10 lb test. I have noticed this has happened before. I have forgotten the brand and wished I had labeled it for future reference. I would say for fun, try both systems and see which works best. I also know the more knots you have the greater the chance of one of those knots breaking when the big one exerts the presssure. Been there and done that.

[CTFSHWHISKER]

uhm...my brain's the size of a pea...

[Moose1am]

OK I keep it short this time.

It's like bonefish said. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Thin line gets more bites but may not catch all those that bite.

And there is more than one way to float a jig.