Is it ok to fish a tourney you are running?

[cra97]

Ok so here's my question, mainly because I want to see if my thinking is off on this or not, should a team who runs a series (meaning takes money, gives out chips, weighs fish, ect) fish that event? Let me add that they are last out first in, and I honestly have never run across them on the water before duing then event,for each event too. I really had never thought about it until I started fishing the R & W Series (I WILL put my name at the bottom and I am NOT bashing these guys on their PERSONAL ethics, just the concept that could be ANY event in the world I just happen to fish/know this one first hand) and the fellows running it have limited out each time and won 3 of 4 events. Now today on Barren, which you can read about all over the place was a nightmare, the team running it pulls out 15 plus lbs, plus wins the only BF prize, (normally not odd on Barren, but these are not normal times on Barren) with all 15 plus inchers and no slot fish and the next best team has something like 5.66 lbs. I know there were a couple tourney's running at the same time and the people I spoke with ALL said the conditions were pretty rigid, to say the least. They were also terrible conditions yesturday for the WKU Black Bag Classic and not many fish were brought to the scales at all out of that field of around 50 boats (but the event was AWSOME and VERY WELL run by the school). So I start thinking about the last few events and I realize these guys have won 75% (now that's FIRST PLACE, NOT ITM finishes) of the events so far. Now this is a $100 buy-in event and pays out 1 in 7 so the money is pretty good for winning, but I start to think about this and I just don't think it is good business to run an event you are fishing in.
Let me be clear here please, I am NOT making any allegations of any kind about anybody. I just question the idea of the "rules enforcers" playing the game (kind of like "call your own fouls" basketball on the playground), does that seem illogical or is it reasonable? Heck, they COULD do whatever they wanted (again, NOT saying the did/would/have, just saying) as nobody would know it cause they are all out trying to fish themsleves. I was wondering why there have only been 13 teams for the first 3 events and then only 9 today (or somewhere VERY close to those numbers). I thought it was maybe the economy or that they only fish Green River and Barren in this series. But after thinking about it, I REALLY don't think I will fish it next year unless they change the rules on this, this feature of the event has something to do with it too (?).
I think the way FOM runs it, and I believe USA Bassin as well, is the way it should be done. Jeremy Atwood runs all the KY Divisions except one, I believe, and he can ONLY fish the one he is not the head of (R & W Marine Series has two divisions by the way so this IS possible).
NOW, I know what I am going to hear from some about "if you don't like the rules, don't fish it", and that is a VERY fair statement to make (and I won't next year if it remains like this, or any other run like it with similar results from the team running it). I honestly just never even thought about the "conflict of interest" portion of something like this and thus did not pay attention to it (again my own fault).
After all the stuff I have said my question still is: Should the two guys running an event (especially a higher $$ one) be allowed to fish it, or would it seem more ethical to make them fish the series they are NOT running and not allow them to compete in the one the are (ie. USA Bassin/FOM)? Please do not take this as a "sore loser" thing because despite my question, my partner and I have already won enough in this to pay for all 6 events out of our winnings (2nd pays well too ). I am just curious what others think about this type of a set-up for running a tournament are. I also would LOVE to raise awareness about the R&W Event since it is a "Real Rewards" paying tourney that has not come close to HALF the number of boats needed to qualify it for the payout and I just got my new Skeeter too :P. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and AGAIN one last time, I am not accusing anybody of anything it is more the "Concept of the Operation" I am asking for input on so I can decide if this is something I need to research before fishing "Series" in the future. Or if I am just missing the boat on my thinking here. Thanks all and good luck!!

Rob Appleby
502-689-5528

[Dave Stewart]

First of all, if you are not accusing anyone of anything...then why did you emphasis that other folks on Barren struggled this weekend but these guys pulled out a big bag and also the fact that these folks have one 75% of the events...for someone that claims not to be accusing anyone, you sure make it look like you are doing just that.

Have you asked the folks that run this tournament about this or did you just come on here to complain about them without talking to them first? Just wondering.

Last but not least...I would not fish an open tournament where there is considerable money involved that the folks who run it also fish it nor would I fish one that did not polygraph the winners and one random..that is if I fished tournaments.

[DJD]

When I fished USA BAssin and Midwest both tourny directors fished the events. Never had a problem like you described. I don't fish those trails for various reasons but I always felt they were run in a fair way.

If it's big money the directors should not fish it. Local buddy stuff that qualifies for a Championship is fair game. I know the Midwest would pay the directors a portion of the entry fees for their time and efforts....at least they did when I fished it....didn't have a problem with that either.

I say if you know the rules and decide to play anyway then all you can do is deal with the results.....

[cra97]

Yes, I did ask them about it and they said that the people in-charge of the overall (the two divisions) asked them to run this one for them BECAUSE they are fishing it. The reason I OVER emphasis the "non-accusation" in this, and give statistics, is because this is the only one I have ever run across in my short tourney career, and these guys seem to be good people and I do not want to slam THEM, so I am laying out my personal situation in detail and did not want to seem (and by your comments it seems I failed at this) like I am questioning JUST this tourney but rather the set-up like this for ANY event.
My question was about tourney's in general with this type set-up, and my example is honestly the only one I know of run like this because I have never paid attention in the past to whether this was allowed or not in the past.
Thank you for you response on the polygrams, I HAVE seen that in the "rules" on some of the events I have fished before and just sort of "glazed over it" not even giving that a thought as to whether it mattered or not that it was there. I appreciate your moving this and sorry to have put it in the wrong area. As always, I appreciate your input and am VERY glad I do not have to compete with you in ANY tourney Take care and I hope this clears up some of reasoning behind why I have put it the way I did.

Rob Appleby

[pastorbass]

That's one of the main reasons Fishers of Men does not allow directors to fish - that way there can be no "questions" about the director and the integrity of FOM is not at stake. Plus, it is near impossible to be competative in a fishing tournament and be the director if it is a major tournament trail situation. There is no way I could be competative and direct the same division of Fishers of Men - one area would suffer. I blast the guys off, am available for anglers with boat trouble, fill out weigh in slips for 40+ teams, write checks, unload the trailer, set up the banners, set up the scales, and a variety of other things and have weigh in ready to go an hour before official weigh in time for the guys that want to go home early. So even if I wanted to fish, I don't see how I could.

But with that being said, some trails have to allow directors to fish as an incentive for being a tournament director. Even if directors do get a "salary" its usually not enough to make that big of a difference so a lot of trails let directors fish for free. I only direct Fishers of Men because it is more about the ministry than anything else and a way that I can combine my love for the Lord and for fishing. But if I were going to run another trail there would probably need to be some sort of an incentive to do so.

The only thing that bothers me about directors who fish the same trail is when fishing takes priority over their responsibilities as director.

[DJD]

The only thing that bothers me about directors who fish the same trail is when fishing takes priority over their responsibilities as director.

Your right I have seen that suffer in some of the bigger trails.
Running a tourny takes time and a well run sign up, take off and weigh in keeps the anglers coming back each year.

[harryprocraft]

i fish the usa bassin ky3 trail and the guys that run it have done an awesome job. they fish it and still put on a 1st class tourney. i have not seen or been in your situation. and i do agree with dave with the statements you have done seems like you are accusing someone.

[wishniwasfishn]

i fish the usa bassin ky3 trail and the guys that run it have done an awesome job. they fish it and still put on a 1st class tourney. i have not seen or been in your situation. and i do agree with dave with the statements you have done seems like you are accusing someone.

Harry, John does a great job, and I am sure he would do a lot better in these tournaments if he had more time to fish, and not worry about anything else, and if he ever won while I was fishing, I would not give it a minutes thought.

[Stevens]

I say think about it like this. The people directing these tournaments are putting their hardwork to put together an enjoyable event for people like you. Nooow how should they be rewarded.. sit at the ramp all day oooor be allowed to fish the event also? Its not like if they wernt fishing they'd have eagle eyes on everyone to ensure there wasnt any foul play, theyre being enforced by you and everyone else in the tournament just like your being enforced by everyone else who sees you. I'm sorry that your tournament director is so good but i dont think he deserves anymore scrutiny than anyone else, but i do think he deserves a little more respect for the work he's putting in to make this complaint a possibility

[rme hunter]

I think they should be allowed to fish.

[ShakyHead]

Let them fish... There is only 12 boats your fishing against.

[NEWTON]

I have read the posts. Here is what I think me being a Director for USA Bassin we are allowed to fish are events. I have been doing this for them for 3 years now we try and fish and in 3 year I have won 1 and 2nd in won. Now I ran some night tournaments on thursday nights and won or placed in most of them but we only had around 10 to 7 boats. With that said I know with me I make myself on the spot if some one needs me. They have me cell number and if they call or flag me down I go and help. This is my look on my Divisions I am a Director 1st and for most and a fishermen 2nd. I am there 2 Hours before every event last to go out and 1st back to have the scales open 1 hour before quiting time. I have had a couple of times this year where on Nolin and at Barren I have been on fish get a keeper in the boat phone rings one of my guys needs help have left my fish to go get them. Why that is my job as I see it Director I have to take care of my guys and gals when they are out there. I am not the greatest fisherman out there but I can get on them. Have took out guys to help them pre fish and load the boat with them and when the tournament day comes not have much and they ask why and I just tell them it is hard for me to compete and be a good director. I would like to thank the guys that posted on this subject that fish with me Harry and Bob for the good comments. Thanks and any of you on here fishing the USA BASSIN Classic this weekend I will see you there. Thanks John Newton