U.S. faces "Americanization" of terror threat

[Chubminnow]

Over the course of time I've learned to only believe half of what I read in the media...I'm posting this because I believe it to be true and wanted my fishin.com friends to read it too.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nine years after the September 11 attacks, the United States faces a growing threat from home-grown insurgents and an "Americanization" of al Qaeda leadership, according to a report released on Friday.

Former heads of the 9/11 Commission that studied the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington presented the 43-page study, describing it as a wake-up call about the radicalization of Muslims in the United States and the changing strategy of al Qaeda and its allies.

"The threat that the U.S. is facing is different than it was nine years ago," said the report, released by the Washington-based Bipartisan Policy Center.

"The U.S. is arguably now little different from Europe in terms of having a domestic terrorist problem involving immigrant and indigenous Muslims as well as converts to Islam."

The report comes at a sensitive time for the United States.

President Barack Obama made a plea for religious tolerance on Friday as passions simmered over a Florida Christian preacher's threat to burn copies of the Koran, Islam's holy book, and plans to build an Islamic cultural center and mosque near the so-called Ground Zero site in New York City.

U.S. officials warn such cases could lead to a recruiting bonanza for al Qaeda.

The report said al Qaeda and its affiliates in Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen had minimally established an "embryonic" recruitment infrastructure in the United States.

It pointed to convictions last year of at least 43 American citizens or residents aligned with militant ideology, and high-profile cases of recruits who went abroad for training.

"In the past year alone the United States has seen affluent suburban Americans and the progeny of hard-working immigrants gravitate to terrorism," the report said. "There seems no longer any clear profile of a terrorist."

Americans were also increasingly forming part of the leadership of al Qaeda and its allies. It cited the cases of:

* U.S.-born Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is now one of the top figures in al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. He is linked to the failed attempt to blow up a passenger plane over Detroit on Christmas Day 2009 as well as a deadly shooting spree at Fort Hood military base in Texas a month earlier.

* Adnan al-Shukrijumah, a Saudi-born operative who grew up in Brooklyn and Florida, who is considered to be a senior leader of al Qaeda's external operations.

* Chicagoan David Headley, who played a role in scoping out targets for the 2008 Mumbai attacks on behalf of Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba.

"There is little precedent for the high-level operational roles that Americans are currently playing in al Qaeda and affiliated groups," the report said.

SMALLER SCALE ATTACKS

Much of the report highlights fears that U.S. intelligence officials have been flagging for years, including the rising prominence of al-Awlaki and other American recruits.

The Obama administration has authorized operations to kill or capture Awlaki and a secret CIA memo, leaked to the media last month, spoke extensively about how U.S. citizens were of great value to terrorist groups.

American intelligence officials also have agreed with another key point in the report that sees an increased risk of small-scale attacks on hard-to-protect U.S. targets.

In the wake of the September 11 attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people, the report said the intelligence community had wrongly believed that al Qaeda was intent on "matching or besting the loss of life and destruction" it had caused.

It is now clear that militants see operational value in conducting more frequent and less sophisticated attacks, which are harder to detect and require less high level coordination.

"American officials and the wider public should realize that, by the law of averages, al Qaeda or an affiliate will succeed in getting some kind of attack through in the next years," said the report.

Even the Pakistani-born American Faisal Shahzad's failed attempt to set off a car bomb in Times Square in May was extremely effective from a propaganda standpoint, given the enormous amount of media coverage it received.

"The best response (to an attack) would be to demonstrate that we as a society are resilient and are not being intimidated by such actions," the report said.

[Chubminnow]

"BUMP"

The reason I'm bumping this thread that I started is because of the thread that Grumpy started, locked and relocked. If you all read the article in the CJ that was included in Grumpy's thread...you'll find that it reads basically along the same lines as what is included in this thread I started...at least I think it does anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally for me and what I think is; "No, not all people of Islam are evil...of course they aren't, that would be like saying all whites are evil or all blacks are evil or all members of the FLW are evil, etc...but what's going on slowly but surely is the radical Islamist society wants to take over our country...this is what I think, this is what I believe. I do not support the burning of Koran's for I do not believe in buring another man's scripture, but at the same time I do not support the construction of "special" Islamic schools and I sure as hell don't support the construction of Mosque's in NYC or anywhere else in this country.

This may be more of a rant on my part than anything else, but it seems to me that once again, no one is in favor of supporting Islam in this country but that's all it is is talk, there doesn't appear to be any actions taken from what I can tell. I guess everyone who cares is like me and is to busy taking care of business and earning a living.

P.S. - Not that it matters but, Grumpy I don't think you should have locked the thread you started...I think you should have given a warning to those you thought weren't staying focused on the subject matter. If warnings were ignored then by all means, lock the thread or delete certain posts or whatever. There was no name calling nor was there any extreme or obscene posts.

[Grumpy]

Chub, I locked the thread because, as so often happens with that type of post, it devolved from the original post into a couple of street fights between ardent sets of antagonists and it looked like more would be coming. Although, APB tried to bring it back on track (the second part of his last post) I didn't see any sense in letting it continue. BTW, you didn't see any name calling and neither did it but we don't know what was in the stuff APB deleted. I learned a long time ago that WARNINGS don't work.

Grumpy

[apb]

"...I learned a long time ago that WARNINGS don't work."
Sorry, but I disagree. Starts with warnings, proceeds to temporary ban, finally full ban. It has worked here and elsewhere. Most people here have no problem with civil discussion. An occasional reminder keeps folks aware of the guidelines. I also recognized that discussions on the forum, like many normal discussions you have in every day life, will go off on slight tangents from time to time, or other related topics are introduced that also address the topic at hand. I see that as the general flow of any discussion.

Back on topic....

"....I do not believe in buring another man's scripture, but at the same time I do not support the construction of "special" Islamic schools and I sure as hell don't support the construction of Mosque's in NYC or anywhere else in this country.
This may be more of a rant on my part than anything else, but it seems to me that once again, no one is in favor of supporting Islam in this country but that's all it is is talk, there doesn't appear to be any actions taken from what I can tell. I guess everyone who cares is like me and is to busy taking care of business and earning a living....."

To me, that you have highlighted the crux of the problem. We are down headed down the path of lumping all muslims into one group based on the actions of a very minor, but radical minority of muslims. It is reminiscent of the McCarthy era commie stuff. Basically set up a boogie man who is responsible for all our woes. Seems like a backhanded way to conveniently ignore parts of our constitution that are deemed inconvenient. I also wonder how much of this xenophobia is driven by folks who have ulterior motives. For example, a politician who figures they can win a few extra votes by peddling such nonsense, extremists from other religions who see it as a why to promote their own religion, etc. At what cost do we do this? I mean, do we really want to take it so far that we start a 21st century crusade to basically commit genocide all in the name of god? Sorry, but I am not interested.

Not all muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslim. Why do we have such a desire to base our opinion of Islam on the actions of a few extremists? Do we judge the Christian religion by the actions of the KKK, the church in Kansas who protests military funerals cause God hates fags and the war is God's punishment, etc? No. We see them as the misguided fools that they are. How convenient that we can forget the few extremists within our own religion while ostracizing those of another religion for the few whack jobs that make them look bad.

One of the founding principals of the US was the freedom of religion. For this reason I do not see that the majority of the country is in favor of removing Islam from the US. I flies right in the face of what the country was founded on. Removing the extreme aspects of Islam, sure, I think we are all in favor of that.

One of the things that the Bush administration indicated early on in the fight against terrorism was the whole winning of hearts and minds. I agree this whole heartedly. We will never change the opinions of extremists except through a carefully placed 50 cal round between the eyes. However, its those moderates who are on the fence. They could either be persuaded to join with the extremists or persuaded to denounce the extremists and work with us. When we sink down to the level of extremists and pull stunts like burning the Koran or opposing the building of a mosque it feeds right into the hands of the extremists. They use this propaganda against us to show moderate Muslims that we really are out to get all of them so they better join the fight now while they still have a chance. It is these kinds of things (mosque, Koran burning) that can undo all the progress that our military has done in wiping out terrorists. I don't want to see all of the efforts of our brave men and women in uniform be all for naught.

Deep at the heart of this is that our country is a nation of laws. It is based on those laws. If we are not careful our knee jerk reactions will send us down the slippery path of ignoring the constitution when it is convenient. The constitution is not a menu of laws that we can choose a la carte the laws we want to live by today. Its an all or nothing deal. Sure, there are times that our own laws will be used against us and bite us in the butt. However, over the long-term, maintaining those laws will help to keep the US as the great nation it is. I would rather take the occasion bite in the butt than to sink down to the level of extremists. That is not what this country was founded on and it doesn't need to change now.

Apologies for the long-winded response, but the increasing level of intolerance shown here and elsewhere is really starting to grind on my nerves.

Andrew

[Chubminnow]

Thanks for your thoughts Andrew...always appreciated. I agree with a lot of what you wrote, what the country was founded on, that we're based on living and dying by the laws that we have, and yes sometimes those laws come back to bite us, etc...

I still really believe that what's going on today, slowly but surely, is the "radical" Islamist society (however few or plentiful they may be) wants to take over our country, and they're wanting to do this on our turf, right here in mine and your back yard...this is what I think, this is what I believe. In my mind it kind of gets back to basics, or "squatters rights" persay. You know...either a) I was here first this is MY piece of ground and I'll fight you for it or b) You gave me this ground so that I may prosper and grow, I built it up and raised my family here, once again, I'll fight you for it.

It's ok, we let them come here...we let them practice "their" religeon, etc...but since they want to be here as Americans, then why not be 100% American then? What's wrong with the public schools in America, why do they think they need a "special" Islamic school, followed by a "special" place to worship, etc?? You probably can't answer this because you're not a Muslim or Islamic or whatever...but it sure does seem to me like in the long run they've got something up their sleeves.

I ain't here to argue...just here to debate this subject and try to learn more about it. I'm similar to you, it gets on my last nerve except for me I get really fed up with those who try to argue FOR the Islamic's or Muslims or whatever they are. To be honest I can't tell the difference between the two. They may be one and the same as far as I know.

[bassin_bug]

Looking at the building of the mosque in NYC from another point of view, is it really for religious purposes or is it a way for the SHAREHOLDERS, I think there are 6 of them, to haul in tons of money from the mideast and launder it through the mosque? Donald Trump has offered to buy the interests of the person holding the most shares. That man commented that he was in it to make money and would certainly consider selling his holdings to Trump at a generous profit.

What comes to mind here is something about that so called mosque becoming a "for profit" business. If that is true it would raise a lot of questions as to exactly what the mosque will be used for. Certainly it would be for something more than prayers 5 times a day. jmo

[Big Gills]

Well folks it comes that time when Big Gills has to put her 2 cents in on the discussion. I listened to Prime Minister Harper and Obama in their speeches on and around Sept 11th this year. Both are saying but Harper is stressing that we need to be on guard for the home grown terrorists. That is the new Al Queda(sp) as they wont attack like before but they will recruit and train from within our own countries. This is a major concern in itself. Terrorists are changing their tactics and we have to be mindful of this. We saw this with the soldier who attacked his own soldiers and the fellow who tried to blow himself and the plane in Detroit. We also have had 2 attempts up here but our own version of Central Intelligence arrested them before they could act. Thank God!

Another point I want to make is to the folks that keep repeating over and over that there is just a small group of terrorists or just a handful of terrorists. Are you freaking kidding me? If there is such a small number of terrorists then why hasnt the American, Canadian, British, French, German etc militiary brought down this small number of terrorists? There are thousands of them. Why cant our combined militiary which are the best trained in the world cut off the head of the taliban snake? We have been at war for 9 years and I hear from the news that the Taliban is stronger now than in 2001. So please dont live in denial or kid yourself there is this little tiny group of terrorists. If you still believe that then answer the question why havent we won this war????

[apb]

"Looking at the building of the mosque in NYC from another point of view, is it really for religious purposes or is it a way for the SHAREHOLDERS, I think there are 6 of them, to haul in tons of money from the mideast and launder it through the mosque?..."
If it was for laundering money to ship to the Mideast for nefarious purposes then it is a completely different animal and should be stopped. As a community center or a place or worship, it is their constitutional right to open it, by legal means.

"...I still really believe that what's going on today, slowly but surely, is the "radical" Islamist society (however few or plentiful they may be) wants to take over our country, and they're wanting to do this on our turf, right here in mine and your back yard..."

I don't disagree that there are some Muslims, the radical ones, who want this both for the US and the rest of the world. Those are the ones that we are fighting, and for good reason.

"... What's wrong with the public schools in America, why do they think they need a "special" Islamic school, followed by a "special" place to worship, etc?? You probably can't answer this because you're not a Muslim or Islamic or whatever...but it sure does seem to me like in the long run they've got something up their sleeves...."

Would a Southern Baptist worship in a Synagogue, or a Jew in a Catholic church? Are there not Catholic schools, home schooling, etc. Why should Muslims who are American citizins not be afforded the same rights as other American citizens?

How do we define what is American? America is a melting pot of a variety of cultural, ethnic, religious, etc. backgrounds. There is something positive that we can learn from all of those.

"...I ain't here to argue...just here to debate this subject and try to learn more about it..."

Me too

Andrew

[GeoFisher]

Another point I want to make is to the folks that keep repeating over and over that there is just a small group of terrorists or just a handful of terrorists. Are you freaking kidding me? If there is such a small number of terrorists then why hasnt the American, Canadian, British, French, German etc militiary brought down this small number of terrorists? There are thousands of them. Why cant our combined militiary which are the best trained in the world cut off the head of the taliban snake? We have been at war for 9 years and I hear from the news that the Taliban is stronger now than in 2001. So please dont live in denial or kid yourself there is this little tiny group of terrorists. If you still believe that then answer the question why havent we won this war????

They are simply LYING when they say there are only a few. If 1/10 of 1 percent of all muslims are RADICAL TERRORISTS.........then that makes up oh say 1.6 MILLION radical muslims TERRORISTS........what a nice round number.

We will be fighting the Jihadists the REST of our lives. I say kill them all and let allah sort them out.

Later,

Geo

[apb]

Geo, if you are suggesting that we kill all of the extremists, I have no problem. If you are suggesting that we kill all muslims, I have a real big problem with that.


"If there is such a small number of terrorists then why hasnt the American, Canadian, British, French, German etc militiary brought down this small number of terrorists? There are thousands of them. Why cant our combined militiary which are the best trained in the world cut off the head of the taliban snake? "

Al Quada may have been relatively small in number. However, they also had/have the backing of the Taliban who were in control of Afganistan when we went in. We are fighting both groups. This is also not a conventional war. Our forces are fighting relatively small, scattered groups, who have a lot of places to hide. They fit right in with the local population and in some areas the locals are giving them support. We also allowed ourselves to become distracted by going into Iraq. We should have finished the job in Afganistan first. I'm sure there are others here who could provide more detail on all of this than me.

Andrew

[GeoFisher]

I meant all radical extremist muslims..........All others.....those that want to live freely WITH christians, jews, buddists, athiests, whatever.....that is fine with me.....Those that want to change our WESTERN ways, instill Sharia law.......Hunt them down, and KILL THEM as the DOGS they are.

[Catfish Bob]

I meant all radical extremist muslims..........All others.....those that want to live freely WITH christians, jews, buddists, athiests, whatever.....that is fine with me.....Those that want to change our WESTERN ways, instill Sharia law.......Hunt them down, and KILL THEM as the DOGS they are.

+1

Crazy thing is, our govt keeps warning us about the MUSLIMS yet they do nothing about it. I think the ones in power/control want as many MUSLIMS in U.S as possible.
Divide and conquer.