Big Oil continues to win

[Tim_T]

[FONT=Arial]The Senate fell short of the 60 votes needed to proceed to consideration of this bill that would end certain tax breaks for large oil companies. The bill may resurface as part of the upcoming budget negotiations.[/FONT]

In case your wondering, Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul both voted against this bill and for big oil tax breaks! Looks like ol Rand may not be as tea party as we had hoped!

[DJD]

[FONT=Arial]The Senate fell short of the 60 votes needed to proceed to consideration of this bill that would end certain tax breaks for large oil companies. The bill may resurface as part of the upcoming budget negotiations.[/FONT]

In case your wondering, Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul both voted against this bill and for big oil tax breaks! Looks like ol Rand may not be as tea party as we had hoped!

I'm not totally sold on the idea of punishing big oil. The less they make or see as profit means they will charge more or take their business ventures elsewhere. It happens all the time with other companies that move overseas for tax breaks and incentives.

It's not an easy fix and demonizing a corporation is not the answer. Imo..We need alternative fuel exploration and drill for our own oil.

[the_donger]

I agree with DJD. Lose the tax break, jack up the gas prices. They are gonna get their pound of flesh in the end.

[Tim_T]

I am not completely sold on drilling here for a couple of reasons. Too many people refuse to even LOOK at the environmental impact. I am all for drilling, but it better be done in as safe a manner and with as little impact as possible. If it cost a few dollars more to do it safely, who cares. I am sick of seeing places get trashed so that some huge billion dollar corporation can save $5! It happens all the time, you need to look no further than mountain top removal coal mining.

There is a situation going on with a ski resort in Minnesota right now where they want to drain even more water out of a wild trout river so that they can make more snow in order to expand there ski resort. The kicker is, they could get the water from Lake Superior, which has tons of water and would cause little to no impact, but it would cost them more money!

Here is an Aldo Leopold quote that I wish people would keep in mind when tempted to place property values over human values:
"Cease being intimidated by the argument that a right action is impossible because it does not yield maximum profits, or that a wrong action is to be condoned because it pays."

I wish we would do SERIOUS research on alternative energy sources, but unforunately, it seems we will have to completely run out of oil for this to be the case. After all, it might cost the stockholders at Exxon a few dollars out of their millions!

[roadrunner]

Tim I want to make a few comments I have listened to big oil take a beating on here long enough. Sorry this is long

First we can drill in Alaska and not in a pristine beautiful area but a barren waste land just at the edge of ANWAR and in the state of Montana and North Dakota. I don’t think you have to worry about destroying the environment by drilling on land been done for 110 years.

Second big oil makes 16 cents profit per gallon when gas is $4.00 a gallon 12 cents when it is $3.00 a gallon. Government taxes us 18 cents per gallon no matter what the price is and they drag the CEO of big oil before congress and put on a show for the American people.

States charge around 25 to 40 cents per gallon with Kentucky at only 22 cents

I know it sounds like I am connected to big oil but I have nothing to do in the oil industry other than I have a 401K which would own some stock in the mutual funds (I think).
I do live in a town that has a refinery and they are great corporate neighbors. They do more for the community than the federal government has ever done.

Also you would be shocked at how much of a capital hog a refinery is. They are doing a 300 million project now to take benzene out of gasoline because of a government mandate. Before that it was 280 million to take sulfur out of diesel.

About ten years ago they decided that all employees and contractors in the plant had to wear nomex fire retardant coveralls this was not a government mandate but a safety issue and was put in their safety rules that as of Oct 1st all employees would be required to wear these coveralls. Oct 1st rolls around and the coveralls are not here from the supplier so they informed everyone that they would not be available and would postpone the requirement however they failed to change it in their manual. OSHA was in the plant on other business and fined them 70 million dollars on Oct 1st they negotiated it to 35 million.

About every spring and fall they do what is referred to a s turn around where they tear down a part of the plant and rebuild it this is at a cost of around 60 to 120 million depending on the scope of the turn around. They are planning the turn around now for three years from now that is how intense the planning is plus they have to have all the parts special ordered. A lot of the vessels which are tanks with pipes and connections all over them are ordered from Japan and shipped here unloaded at New Harmony Indiana ( I think) and trucked in with a semi trailer with over 100 tires. I can’t tell you how many days and permits and the routes they have to take to get it to the refinery in Robinson Illinois. Oh yes their electric bill per month is 1 million dollars.

[DJD]

I am not completely sold on drilling here for a couple of reasons. Too many people refuse to even LOOK at the environmental impact. I am all for drilling, but it better be done in as safe a manner and with as little impact as possible. If it cost a few dollars more to do it safely, who cares. I am sick of seeing places get trashed so that some huge billion dollar corporation can save $5! It happens all the time, you need to look no further than mountain top removal coal mining.

There is a situation going on with a ski resort in Minnesota right now where they want to drain even more water out of a wild trout river so that they can make more snow in order to expand there ski resort. The kicker is, they could get the water from Lake Superior, which has tons of water and would cause little to no impact, but it would cost them more money!

Here is an Aldo Leopold quote that I wish people would keep in mind when tempted to place property values over human values:
"Cease being intimidated by the argument that a right action is impossible because it does not yield maximum profits, or that a wrong action is to be condoned because it pays."

I wish we would do SERIOUS research on alternative energy sources, but unforunately, it seems we will have to completely run out of oil for this to be the case. After all, it might cost the stockholders at Exxon a few dollars out of their millions!

I'm pretty much convinced we don't ever get the real details about oil in Alaska and off the coast. One expert in the media says one thing and the expert from the other side says different.

I remember when the Alaskan pipeline was gonna destroy that area and hurt the Caribou migration but I don't think that happened.

The Exxon oil spill was terrible and the recent Gulf oil spill was bad but nowhere near as bad as the experts said (going on memory there).

Heck, I just think that we get so tied up in knots over whats politically correct that it makes us spend tons of money to find other ways to get things done.

The main problem I see is that politicians make decisions based on who put money in their coffers and thats destined to be corrupt. The interest of the country is way down on their list of things to do.

[FlyLie]

Tim I want to make a few comments I have listened to big oil take a beating on here long enough. Sorry this is long

First we can drill in Alaska and not in a pristine beautiful area but a barren waste land just at the edge of ANWAR and in the state of Montana and North Dakota. I don’t think you have to worry about destroying the environment by drilling on land been done for 110 years.

Second big oil makes 16 cents profit per gallon when gas is $4.00 a gallon 12 cents when it is $3.00 a gallon. Government taxes us 18 cents per gallon no matter what the price is and they drag the CEO of big oil before congress and put on a show for the American people.

States charge around 25 to 40 cents per gallon with Kentucky at only 22 cents

I know it sounds like I am connected to big oil but I have nothing to do in the oil industry other than I have a 401K which would own some stock in the mutual funds (I think).
I do live in a town that has a refinery and they are great corporate neighbors. They do more for the community than the federal government has ever done.

Also you would be shocked at how much of a capital hog a refinery is. They are doing a 300 million project now to take benzene out of gasoline because of a government mandate. Before that it was 280 million to take sulfur out of diesel.

About ten years ago they decided that all employees and contractors in the plant had to wear nomex fire retardant coveralls this was not a government mandate but a safety issue and was put in their safety rules that as of Oct 1st all employees would be required to wear these coveralls. Oct 1st rolls around and the coveralls are not here from the supplier so they informed everyone that they would not be available and would postpone the requirement however they failed to change it in their manual. OSHA was in the plant on other business and fined them 70 million dollars on Oct 1st they negotiated it to 35 million.

About every spring and fall they do what is referred to a s turn around where they tear down a part of the plant and rebuild it this is at a cost of around 60 to 120 million depending on the scope of the turn around. They are planning the turn around now for three years from now that is how intense the planning is plus they have to have all the parts special ordered. A lot of the vessels which are tanks with pipes and connections all over them are ordered from Japan and shipped here unloaded at New Harmony Indiana ( I think) and trucked in with a semi trailer with over 100 tires. I can’t tell you how many days and permits and the routes they have to take to get it to the refinery in Robinson Illinois. Oh yes their electric bill per month is 1 million dollars.

Thanks for the good info:
Just leads me back to impact of investors/commodities markets impact on the pricing $$$. Maybe if we all could stop buying gas for a month of so, they would loose their ASS. Not to be, so much for my pipe dream!!

[GeoFisher]

[FONT=Arial]The Senate fell short of the 60 votes needed to proceed to consideration of this bill that would end certain tax breaks for large oil companies. The bill may resurface as part of the upcoming budget negotiations.[/FONT]

In case your wondering, Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul both voted against this bill and for big oil tax breaks! Looks like ol Rand may not be as tea party as we had hoped!

There are some HUGE issues with the tax breaks that BIG OIL GET......the single biggest is the fact that it hurts practically every other corporation that gets tax offsets for certain manufacturing....

Instead of a repeal, you'd have to rewrite the law to EXCLUDE big oil, and then that would be unconstitutional....

So to eliminate the break for oil you'd have to eliminate it for every manufacturing corporation, including Ford, GM, GE, Westinghouse and every other PRODUCT MANUFACTURER in the country.

Of course, no one who is bitching about big oil has said a single thing about this......have they.

NO my friends...........while the country is in a serious pickle, you CANNOT remove these incentives that are used by corporations to CREATE JOBS.....

Watch what Newt said this Sunday......he wants to lower corporate taxes by 5 percent and ELIMINATE the breaks, and then he wants to eliminate capital gains, and then eliminate inheritance tax. ALL of those would FLOOD the market with new capital for companies to develop and grow.

Imagine that.......someone who actually wants to see America prosper again.

Later,

Geo

[roadrunner]

MUST READ MUST READ

I made a huge mistake the OSHA fine was $700,000 negotiated to $350,000 not 70 million I don't know what I was thinking but It hit me on the way home that I was way way off. I appologize for such a huge mistake.

[Tim_T]

Tim I want to make a few comments I have listened to big oil take a beating on here long enough. Sorry this is long

First we can drill in Alaska and not in a pristine beautiful area but a barren waste land just at the edge of ANWAR and in the state of Montana and North Dakota. I don’t think you have to worry about destroying the environment by drilling on land been done for 110 years.

Second big oil makes 16 cents profit per gallon when gas is $4.00 a gallon 12 cents when it is $3.00 a gallon. Government taxes us 18 cents per gallon no matter what the price is and they drag the CEO of big oil before congress and put on a show for the American people.

States charge around 25 to 40 cents per gallon with Kentucky at only 22 cents

I know it sounds like I am connected to big oil but I have nothing to do in the oil industry other than I have a 401K which would own some stock in the mutual funds (I think).
I do live in a town that has a refinery and they are great corporate neighbors. They do more for the community than the federal government has ever done.

Also you would be shocked at how much of a capital hog a refinery is. They are doing a 300 million project now to take benzene out of gasoline because of a government mandate. Before that it was 280 million to take sulfur out of diesel.

About ten years ago they decided that all employees and contractors in the plant had to wear nomex fire retardant coveralls this was not a government mandate but a safety issue and was put in their safety rules that as of Oct 1st all employees would be required to wear these coveralls. Oct 1st rolls around and the coveralls are not here from the supplier so they informed everyone that they would not be available and would postpone the requirement however they failed to change it in their manual. OSHA was in the plant on other business and fined them 70 million dollars on Oct 1st they negotiated it to 35 million.

About every spring and fall they do what is referred to a s turn around where they tear down a part of the plant and rebuild it this is at a cost of around 60 to 120 million depending on the scope of the turn around. They are planning the turn around now for three years from now that is how intense the planning is plus they have to have all the parts special ordered. A lot of the vessels which are tanks with pipes and connections all over them are ordered from Japan and shipped here unloaded at New Harmony Indiana ( I think) and trucked in with a semi trailer with over 100 tires. I can’t tell you how many days and permits and the routes they have to take to get it to the refinery in Robinson Illinois. Oh yes their electric bill per month is 1 million dollars.

I don't really care how much a cost a multi BILLION dollar company to revamp there plant every year, the bottom line is they can afford it and it is obviously not affecting their bottom line. I realize the provide a lot of jobs, but those jobs are not going anywhere as long as we are government continues to be big oil's *****. So once again, why should they be getting tax breaks?

Geo, there could be a baseline tax break, for companies making over a certain amount of profits would get a smaller tax break than companies making under a certain amount. I am also confused on the part of the constitution that allows tax breaks for big business.

[GeoFisher]

I don't really care how much a cost a multi BILLION dollar company to revamp there plant every year, the bottom line is they can afford it and it is obviously not affecting their bottom line. I realize the provide a lot of jobs, but those jobs are not going anywhere as long as we are government continues to be big oil's *****. So once again, why should they be getting tax breaks?

Geo, there could be a baseline tax break, for companies making over a certain amount of profits would get a smaller tax break than companies making under a certain amount. I am also confused on the part of the constitution that allows tax breaks for big business.

WOW.....you don't CARE??............So it is completely OK to pass those costs along.....EVEN though the changes are pretty much meaningless.

AND a Baseline TAX.....WTF.......I mean really. Doesn't that just force mid companies to never expand to be a big company. TALK about destroying the American Dream. Come on Tim .......you really don't believe that do you??

And I agree on the tax breaks......to an extent. Lets revamp that, but certainly not now. We're in a pickle and quite a few companies rely on those breaks. I can probably name 100 or so in KY. That would be great to repeal the breaks, and cause 50% of those to move out on the country......GREAT IDEA, eh.......

Revamp, but do it responsibly.

Later,

Geo

[GeoFisher]

I don't really care how much a cost a multi BILLION dollar company to revamp there plant every year, the bottom line is they can afford it and it is obviously not affecting their bottom line. I realize the provide a lot of jobs, but those jobs are not going anywhere as long as we are government continues to be big oil's *****. So once again, why should they be getting tax breaks?

Geo, there could be a baseline tax break, for companies making over a certain amount of profits would get a smaller tax break than companies making under a certain amount. I am also confused on the part of the constitution that allows tax breaks for big business.

WOW.....you don't CARE??............So it is completely OK to pass those costs along.....EVEN though the changes are pretty much meaningless.

AND a Baseline TAX.....WTF.......I mean really. Doesn't that just force mid companies to never expand to be a big company. TALK about destroying the American Dream. Come on Tim .......you really don't believe that do you??

And I agree on the tax breaks......to an extent. Lets revamp that, but certainly not now. We're in a pickle and quite a few companies rely on those breaks. I can probably name 100 or so in KY. That would be great to repeal the breaks, and cause 50% of those to move out on the country......GREAT IDEA, eh.......

Revamp, but do it responsibly.

Later,

Geo