A novel idea

[kygorski]

How many nof you guys work, I used to,so I really dont have much of a legitimate say here.What would you say if your boss called you into the office and asked you" what have you done in the past three weeks?"And you said " nothing".What would be your defense if he said he wanted you to return your pay for that period. Would that be unreasonable? Now you have a good sized staff to help you do nothing, who should pay them? Now if you and your staff didn't do anything for three weeks, do we need you?

[DJD]

If you do nothing for three weeks and get paid your in a Union or a politician. Now if your in the private sector and can get away with that your either a black, asian or pregnant woman maybe owners family member or having an affair with the boss. (settle down if these describe you...it's a joke...kinda)
Seriously if you don't make money for the company what good are you? Get someone who will. Forget paying the money back...your fired!

[kygorski]

Ahem!! I was in a union, in fact the president of a local OCAW 7-513, and frrankly you are full of s--t sometimes.Employers hire, and direct the work force in almost all manufactoring jobs. They have the right in ALL cases to terminate a worker before his probation period,so this GOOFING off was condoned, there are several reasons that this happened.One the initial cost of hiring, training,, and then starting all over again. Next where production is involved, the work has to get done,unions dont like having to prod lazy SOBS to hit the ball, in fact in many cases its ground for termination under the direct the work force clause in many labor contracts.I imagine you work with trade unions, different world.I started iron working when I got out of the army,the skilled workers came from a hall,that means that they aquired the skills in most cases to do the jobs that were rather more than just digging holes.You didn't hire a crane operator off the street, and expect him to boom beams up five floors, keeping it from knocking you off a scaffold.You didn't hire a yahoo to weld stainless steel high pressure pipe where hazardous processes were involved, you wanted a journeymen.I'm not to going to go into nepotism, federal employment quota hiring, and some other peculiar situations I had , You cannot deny a person union membership. I DIDN'T GET PAID BY THE UNION, HAD TO BE BONDED, AND MY EXPENSE ACCOUNT WAS AUDITED SEVERAL TIMES A YEAR. So when I see you spout this crap about all union workers just loafing it pi--es me off.I was brought up on charges in front of the NLRB four times, for race descrimination, sex descrimination and failure to deligently persue workers complaints, always cleared by the way. And why did this happen, finally the company took action, and fired a F__koff,Two cases they wound up paying anyway.I was also a technician, and did some non union construction work.Most americans are hard honest workers, not lawyers or politicians.

[stratosjoe]

Thanks KY I read this and it reminds me when I was teamster for 14 yrs stripping hand freight out of 48' trlrs that were loaded high and tight in 100 degree days or 15 below no ac no heat or dock hostling trailers moving 125 in 8 hours climbing in and out of the hostler opening and closing doors and kicking chocks man that was so easy i had all this extra time to sit on my azz and do nothing. I always laugh when I read this on this site cause we all know all blacks are lazy&worthless all germans are Nazi's, all jews are stingy and last but not least all southern boys are stupid rednecks.

[kygorski]

Gubment? Where did this come from? And no white folks are on welfare.Like I said earlier, ifmccain had won, there would be NO T party. Its only because someone other than a white old man won the election. Yet these same guys that can't stand to bear a black president , will go bananas over a 7 ft semi literate knuckle dragging basket ball player.If I got this right there might be one black T party member, elected from the most affluent district in florida.

[GeoFisher]

Gubment? Where did this come from? And no white folks are on welfare.Like I said earlier, ifmccain had won, there would be NO T party. Its only because someone other than a white old man won the election. Yet these same guys that can't stand to bear a black president , will go bananas over a 7 ft semi literate knuckle dragging basket ball player.If I got this right there might be one black T party member, elected from the most affluent district in florida.

Race MY FRIEND.......has nothing to do with it. I'm not a big McCain supporter either, but I'd take him over the president any day. My biggest issue is Obamas friends, his leadership, his cabinet, hes lack of experience, and right now.....his ARROGANCE.

Later,

Geo

[DJD]

LOL purely made a little joke on the Union comment and I thought it would be taken with a little humor. I know many good folks in Unions and I know bad ones. Same goes for private sector jobs.

For the record and all joking aside...I don't care for Unions, I never hid that from anyone on this site. I never worked around steel workers but have around many other unions and yes most are trade unions.

Give me a few hours around some of them and I'll hear or see waste totally based on the fact they are in a Union. Sorry if you don't like it but I base my opinion on what I have experienced and experience almost daily in the Educational Bid market in Kentucky.

No hard feelings KYGorski.....we just differ in opinions on this.

[bassin_bug]

LOL purely made a little joke on the Union comment and I thought it would be taken with a little humor. I know many good folks in Unions and I know bad ones. Same goes for private sector jobs.

For the record and all joking aside...I don't care for Unions, I never hid that from anyone on this site. I never worked around steel workers but have around many other unions and yes most are trade unions.

Give me a few hours around some of them and I'll hear or see waste totally based on the fact they are in a Union. Sorry if you don't like it but I base my opinion on what I have experienced and experience almost daily in the Educational Bid market in Kentucky.

No hard feelings KYGorski.....we just differ in opinions on this.

I understand your point and totally agree. If you want to read about a financial nightmare, read about the Oakland Bay Bridge repair and cost overrun. It is into the BILLIONS of dollars and already about 5 years behind schedule. It's the section that fell into the Bay during the 1989 earthquake and California is trying to rebuild it. My husband was offered a contract last week if he would come and help them out and he told them that he wasn't interested. The guy that called him said they can't hire enough workers to get the job done and managers are leaving. The bridge will be a 10-lane interstate over about 15 miles of water. It's union and obviously full of slackers. I didn't say that to suggest that all union workers are slackers; just a lot of those on the Oakland Bay Bridge construction project.

[elnutsmalljaws]

Unions, Non-Unions, that is the question

Speaking from the Management point of view with 20 years on the Management side and a father that was a Union Steward for Teamsters for 20 years, I have seen and heard both sides. Personally, Unions were only created because Management MIS MANAGED the company in the first place. I was given the reins of a $120 Million dollar a year manufacturing plant and inherited a Steel Workers Union contract several years ago. The only way I took the job was because of the "Management Rights" paragraph on page 3 of the union contract. Unions sit down with management and they come to an agreement on a "work contract" that is accepted by both parties. Both parties agree that this is fair for both sides and each side can live with the agreement. All this is, is a bunch of pages that lawyers and such get paid a heck of a lot more than the managers and hourly workers in the facility that state how the facility should run in the first place. Yes I had a contract and yes I knew the contract but how many times did I have to run to the contract to see if I was "politically correct" VERY FEW. I managed my 110 person workforce by a few simple rules. SAFETY, QUALITY, EFFICIENCY and HOUSEKEEPING. These never changed in order and all 4 were done by every shift every day of every month of every year. Every person knew when they were driving to work that day what the expectations were, what was going to happen if you met or exceeded those expectations, what was going to happen if you did not meet those expectation and that was it. I dont care if you are man, woman, child, black, blue, purple, white, mexican, chinese, japanese, Nepalese, Arabian, one legged, one armed, one eyed, no hair, red hair, pink hair = THE EXPECTATIONS WERE THE SAME FOR ME AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON WORKING IN THE BUILDING UNION OR OTHERWISE. If all companies managed and all workforces worked to where an honest days work was performed and rewarded with an honest days wage and EVERYONE WAS PRAISED AND DISCIPLINED EQUALLY, then to heck with Unions and their contracts. But as long as companies and management and the workforce take advantage of each other then unions will continue, union dues will be paid and lawyers will keep getting richer writing and negotiating those pages

Managing people is one of the EASIEST jobs to do. If you do the proper hiring procedures with the proper references and background checks then pretty much out of 10 people you hire you will get 2 Superstars, 2 pieces of garbage that no matter what you do they will still be pieces of garbage and 6 that will meet what is expected of them to keep their jobs. Managers job is to keep the Superstars being Superstars, do the best job of teaching and training the 2 pieces of garbage and try to get them to meet expectations - IF NOT THEN FIRE THEIR HAPPY BUTTS, and try to get the other 6 to move closer and closer to Superstar Status. Don't hire someone to cover some other sorry worker and don't expect a Superstar to pick up the slack for a sorry worker. Do everything EVERYDAY to improve your People, Policies and Practises and NEVER GET COMPLACENT in thinking your as good as your going to get. Guaranteed, if some competitor builds a facility across the street from you and starts making the same thing you do, if he tries to improve EVERYDAY and reaches for PERFECTION EVERYDAY, eventually he will equal and pass you in today's world. I don't care if you have a 50 year headstart, he will eventually be a better company with a better name and you will be sitting on your complacent behind trying to wonder what in the world happened and why is HE expanding and you are downsizing

[GeoFisher]

Very nice reply Woody..........

I think you hit the nail on the head. You ideas are pretty much my ideas. MANAGE, and do it right and you will not have issues.

When you do, react quickly, protect morale, and GET on with it.

People today look at a job, especially a union job as a privilege, instead of an opportunity.

If people would DO their job, excel at THEIR JOB and look for a better opportunity, when it is provided, the world would be a better place.

Instead UNIONS try to protect everyone, including the bad seeds.....

I'd not be nearly as hard on the UNIONS if their pay and contracts were based directly on performance. Increase net profits for the company by 10 percent.....SHARE in that wealth. Cause net profits to fall 10 percent.....SHARE that pain also.

In my job, I'm DIRECTLY responsible for my raise. When things are tight.....like now, and the past 3-4 years, raises are few and far between. That is expected as the health care business is in shambles. Now, my company is in pretty profitable right now, that is only because of significant CUTS elsewhere, including my health insurance. I don't bitch too much about that, I actually think the model we use is WHAT the entire country should use.....

At least I have a job, and my company is on TOP of the health care debate, and is working on other interesting ideas to sustain profits, and growth.

The world will be very interesting in a few years.......TO say the least.

Later,

Geo

[bassin_bug]

I didn't mean to suggest that my husband's contract is a union contract. It's not, it's a legal contract between him, the client, and the large company he works for. The company is a multi-billion dollar company that averages around $10 billion in profits every year. He would have easy cruising if there were only about 150-200 employees but it's more like 1,200-1,500. He has never had a union member wave their union membership card in his face or refuse to cooperate with him. His salary is not based on the prevailing union wage because he (1) is not a union member (2) doesn't work in trades and labor, but in non-union management. He is salaried and it is based on his education and number of years of experience which, btw, is rather extensive.

Someone mentioned having not worked a 40 hour week in a while; that has to be tough and very frustrating. There are times when my husband works 12 hours/day-7 days/week....for a month or more at a time. If people are working, he is in his office during the day from 6:30 a.m. until.... At night a cell phone, the house phone, and a pager are on the nightstand beside the bed in case of emergency. In other words, he is always on call.

[kydonky]

I understand your point and totally agree. If you want to read about a financial nightmare, read about the Oakland Bay Bridge repair and cost overrun. It is into the BILLIONS of dollars and already about 5 years behind schedule. It's the section that fell into the Bay during the 1989 earthquake and California is trying to rebuild it. My husband was offered a contract last week if he would come and help them out and he told them that he wasn't interested. The guy that called him said they can't hire enough workers to get the job done and managers are leaving. The bridge will be a 10-lane interstate over about 15 miles of water. It's union and obviously full of slackers. I didn't say that to suggest that all union workers are slackers; just a lot of those on the Oakland Bay Bridge construction project.

More propaganda. Sure union ran over costs $$$$$$$$? Had nothing to do with any management decisions, bonuses, kickbacks from suppliers, executive salaries. The whole overrun can be atributed to that one guy taking a smoke break by the barrel. He was obviously union.