And the winner of most deaths is ( insert drum role)

Its tobacco usage, according to FDA
In fact, tobacco use remains the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States,[URL="https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/public-health-education/health-effects-tobacco-use#References"][SUP]1[/SUP][/URL] leading to more than 480,000 deaths each year. Of which approximately 40,000 are secondhand smoke casualties. This outpaces COVID deaths.

From the CDC
Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly [B]6 million[/B] deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030

And from the WHO
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that each year tobacco causes about [B]6 million[/B] deaths (about 10% of all deaths) with 600,000 of these occurring in non-smokers due to secondhand smoke. In the 20th century tobacco is estimated to have caused [B][U]100 million deaths.[/U][/B]
So, in the last 2 yrs. in the US we have lost approximately 700k to covid and so many people are outraged about the unvaccinated, yet we have lost over 900K to tobacco usage and not a peep. Well here is why I think it is. This is from the CDC and Duke university
[B]Smoking is directly correlated with income level and years of education[/B]. Since the release of the first Surgeon General’s Report on smoking in 1964, smoking has become ever more concentrated among populations with lower incomes and fewer years of education. In the past, the highest income Americans smoked at levels even greater than the poorest; now they smoke at almost half the rate of those with the lowest income. · 21.4 percent of adults with a household income less than $35,000 smoke, compared to 11.4 percent of adults with a household income between $75,000 and $100,000, and 7.1 percent of those with a household income of $100,000 or more. 7 · 24.9 percent of Medicaid enrollees* and 22.5 percent of uninsured individuals smoke, compared to 10.7 percent with private insurance coverage. 8 · Among adults 25 and older, 21.6 percent who do not graduate from high school smoke and 35.3 percent with a GED smoke, compared to just 6.9 percent of those with a college education and 4.0 percent of those with a graduate degree.9 From 2002 to 2016, smoking rates declined among all educational levels, but the percentage of smoking decline for those with a college degree or higher was 2.6 times larger than those with a high school diploma and 1.5 times larger than those who had not obtained a high school diploma.10
The US doesn’t give a dam about certain groups of people, you can’t deny it as they say numbers don’t lie. Or is it because politicians are bought and paid for by big business, sad but it’s probably both.
So, for those of you who are so adamant about people getting vaccinated how about getting on your high horse and look out for the #1 100% preventable killer with no question about how to prevent the deaths of close to 8million people worldwide every year.
Have a nice day

[QUOTE=kstonich;581739]Its tobacco usage, according to FDA
In fact, tobacco use remains the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States,[URL="https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/public-health-education/health-effects-tobacco-use#References"][SUP]1[/SUP][/URL] leading to more than 480,000 deaths each year. Of which approximately 40,000 are secondhand smoke casualties. This outpaces COVID deaths.

From the CDC
Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly [B]6 million[/B] deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030

And from the WHO
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that each year tobacco causes about [B]6 million[/B] deaths (about 10% of all deaths) with 600,000 of these occurring in non-smokers due to secondhand smoke. In the 20th century tobacco is estimated to have caused [B][U]100 million deaths.[/U][/B]
So, in the last 2 yrs. in the US we have lost approximately 700k to covid and so many people are outraged about the unvaccinated, yet we have lost over 900K to tobacco usage and not a peep. Well here is why I think it is. This is from the CDC and Duke university
[B]Smoking is directly correlated with income level and years of education[/B]. Since the release of the first Surgeon General’s Report on smoking in 1964, smoking has become ever more concentrated among populations with lower incomes and fewer years of education. In the past, the highest income Americans smoked at levels even greater than the poorest; now they smoke at almost half the rate of those with the lowest income. · 21.4 percent of adults with a household income less than $35,000 smoke, compared to 11.4 percent of adults with a household income between $75,000 and $100,000, and 7.1 percent of those with a household income of $100,000 or more. 7 · 24.9 percent of Medicaid enrollees* and 22.5 percent of uninsured individuals smoke, compared to 10.7 percent with private insurance coverage. 8 · Among adults 25 and older, 21.6 percent who do not graduate from high school smoke and 35.3 percent with a GED smoke, compared to just 6.9 percent of those with a college education and 4.0 percent of those with a graduate degree.9 From 2002 to 2016, smoking rates declined among all educational levels, but the percentage of smoking decline for those with a college degree or higher was 2.6 times larger than those with a high school diploma and 1.5 times larger than those who had not obtained a high school diploma.10
The US doesn’t give a dam about certain groups of people, you can’t deny it as they say numbers don’t lie. Or is it because politicians are bought and paid for by big business, sad but it’s probably both.
So, for those of you who are so adamant about people getting vaccinated how about getting on your high horse and look out for the #1 100% preventable killer with no question about how to prevent the deaths of close to 8million people worldwide every year.
Have a nice day[/QUOTE]

I've read this 3 times and I honestly have no idea what your point is. We should outlaw cigarettes? We shouldn't push vaccinations for COVID? It's somehow to be hypocritical to be pro-vaccination and live in a country where tobacco addiction causes a lot of people to die?

Makes sense we ought be aware of all threats to our health. And we ought recognize the risks and dangers of each. In my mind, smoking is a voluntary act, as one decides each time to light up and I openly acknowledge the addictive nature. I think we’d all agree getting Covid is an “ involuntary” act. I don’t think anyone finishes a meal or a beer and decides to relax with a little Covid.

And yet, both smoking and Covid risks are manageable to some degree. It’s up to us to decide about smoking. We can’t smoke in some places because the second hand smoke is a risk to others. Given that “ restriction of smoking freedom”, is it not logical that provisions for public safety ought be in place to help folks avoid Covid when we all logically understand it’s spread is less controllable than smoking? And as it is a recognized public health risk, as smoking is, is it not equally logical, and responsible to enact provisions that limit the “ freedom “ of people to accidentally spread it endangering the safety of others?

Good thought provoking post, most welcomed.

And I continue to thank my fellow citizens for their responsible actions to look out for others while I strive to do the same. But, OMG, isn’t that what soldiers, police, firefighters, health care workers, utility workers, and many more professionals do everyday!

So thanks to all for helping us all work together to be safer.

[QUOTE=jcb;581740]I've read this 3 times and I honestly have no idea what your point is. We should outlaw cigarettes? We shouldn't push vaccinations for COVID? It's somehow to be hypocritical to be pro-vaccination and live in a country where tobacco addiction causes a lot of people to die?[/QUOTE]

A thought:
We know smoking dangers and it’s accepted, yet we continue to allow sales. Few argue the dangers of smoking. And we do place restrictions on where smokers can exercise their freedom to smoke.

We know Covid dangers. Since we can’t “ quit” Covid, we can do things to reduce our risk, such as mask, social distance, and vaccination.

If some one walks into a store I’m in with a cigarette, i can “see” the danger and move away from it. If a person with Covid walks into a store, I can set see and avoid it. Best I can do is avoid those not wearing a mask and social distance.
To me the point to all of this is that each threat has its own set of risks and it’s own recommended actions to minimize it for those that do recognize the danger and wish to avoid it.

Just my take on it and all are free to select the thickness of the ice they choose to walk on. Just don’t be dropping rocks on the ice I am walking on, please and thank you 😊

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581742]A thought:
We know smoking dangers and it’s accepted, yet we continue to allow sales. Few argue the dangers of smoking. And we do place restrictions on where smokers can exercise their freedom to smoke.

We know Covid dangers. Since we can’t “ quit” Covid, we can do things to reduce our risk, such as mask, social distance, and vaccination.

If some one walks into a store I’m in with a cigarette, i can “see” the danger and move away from it. If a person with Covid walks into a store, I can set see and avoid it. Best I can do is avoid those not wearing a mask and social distance.
To me the point to all of this is that each threat has its own set of risks and it’s own recommended actions to minimize it for those that do recognize the danger and wish to avoid it.

Just my take on it and all are free to select the thickness of the ice they choose to walk on. Just don’t be dropping rocks on the ice I am walking on, please and thank you [/QUOTE]

Smoking is personal choice......

In today's ******** methodology, you would be SHOT for smoking.

I mean the jab is becoming so freakin polarized, it is crazy...................Get the jab, don't get the jab. It is a PERSONAL choice.

I'm disgusted with it all.

[QUOTE=jcb;581740]I've read this 3 times and I honestly have no idea what your point is. We should outlaw cigarettes? We shouldn't push vaccinations for COVID? It's somehow to be hypocritical to be pro-vaccination and live in a country where tobacco addiction causes a lot of people to die?[/QUOTE]

The point is there is a large percentage of the population that lambasts non vaccinated people for not caring about others. Political factions are trying to mandate vaccinations thereby deciding for people what they should and should not do with their health. They are causing people to loose their jobs with no idea what to do when all of the medical professionals who are not vaccinated are fired, although they use the nice term furloughed.
My son is an EMT in Louisville who is unvaccinated and has had Covid already but has no intention of getting vaccinated, along with 40 percent of the other EMTs at the station house who will also be let go.
But the kicker here is there is nothing we are going to do to eliminate covid in our lifetime. It's not going away there is no debating that. I read where zoos were starting to vaccinate primates because they were getting covid. This virus whether man made or natural can't be checked or controlled .
So after more rambling once again if we are talking about saving lives which is a noble endeavor, tobacco should be outlawed plain and simple. If we can destroy peoples careers on the chance we can possibly save lives we must certainly do it when with out a doubt we can save the lives of smokers. But we don't. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy in the approach being taken by politicians. Personally I don't think that their motivation has anything to do with saving people. It's simply another tactic to devide and bring down our nation. To make the population totally reliant on the government to the point we will give all of our freedoms away so they can protect and take care of us.
Just think we're are headed to the demise of a once proud nation that is being overtaken without a shot even being fired

[QUOTE=kstonich;581756]The point is there is a large percentage of the population that lambasts non vaccinated people for not caring about others. Political factions are trying to mandate vaccinations thereby deciding for people what they should and should not do with their health. They are causing people to loose their jobs with no idea what to do when all of the medical professionals who are not vaccinated are fired, although they use the nice term furloughed.
My son is an EMT in Louisville who is unvaccinated and has had Covid already but has no intention of getting vaccinated, along with 40 percent of the other EMTs at the station house who will also be let go.
But the kicker here is there is nothing we are going to do to eliminate covid in our lifetime. It's not going away there is no debating that. I read where zoos were starting to vaccinate primates because they were getting covid. This virus whether man made or natural can't be checked or controlled .
So after more rambling once again if we are talking about saving lives which is a noble endeavor, tobacco should be outlawed plain and simple. If we can destroy peoples careers on the chance we can possibly save lives we must certainly do it when with out a doubt we can save the lives of smokers. But we don't. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy in the approach being taken by politicians. Personally I don't think that their motivation has anything to do with saving people. It's simply another tactic to devide and bring down our nation. To make the population totally reliant on the government to the point we will give all of our freedoms away so they can protect and take care of us.
Just think we're are headed to the demise of a once proud nation that is being overtaken without a shot even being fired[/QUOTE]

The flaw in your analogy, as Zora Spook I think pointed out, is that smoking is a voluntary act and COVID isn't. And while second hand smoke is harmful, it's hardly the same as getting COVID because someone else didn't take basic precautions.

As for the work guidelines, hardly anyone smokes inside anymore on the job. So if someone is a smoker, and goes out to the loading dock to get their fix, they aren't harming anyone but themselves. But you don't get that choice with COVID, and therefore the employer has more of a duty to provide a safe environment for workers.

[QUOTE=jcb;581757]The flaw in your analogy, as Zora Spook I think pointed out, is that smoking is a voluntary act and COVID isn't. And while second hand smoke is harmful, it's hardly the same as getting COVID because someone else didn't take basic precautions.

As for the work guidelines, hardly anyone smokes inside anymore on the job. So if someone is a smoker, and goes out to the loading dock to get their fix, they aren't harming anyone but themselves. But you don't get that choice with COVID, and therefore the employer has more of a duty to provide a safe environment for workers.[/QUOTE]

Well said, bravo.

I agree with you about smoking being regulated in certain areas and that it is easier to avoid smokers than an invisible virus. I merely mentioned smoking as an example of fatalities that are preventable.

What bothers me is that I've had tested positive for covid 2x so far ( no symptoms) I in theory have immunity on par with those who have been vaccinated. I would assume that I'm not alone and there are a significant part of our population that is like me.
There is some debate as to the level of protection provided. Since this is a new virus its tough to tell what's more effective, we won't know for along time as things are so fluid.
But we do see from data that the vaccines effectiveness is now being reduced either due to time or mutations of the virus. We don't know the same about natural immunity although I would assume its effectiveness is on par with the vaccine.
From what I read both vaccinated an unvaccinated can carry and transmit the virus.
I live in a small town, last week there were 9 people hospitalized 5 unvaccinated and 4 vaccinated. Extremely small sample size I know, I would guess its more like 70/30 in other places
I for one would think that if there is this push for everyone to get vaccinated, I should be able to be tested to show I also have the anti-bodies in my system. But it doesn't seem likes that's an option unfortunately.
I would think we should be focusing on treatment ( and I assume we are),knowing that this virus will keep mutating.
I don't think that information will be released with the push for the jab is in full force.
But in the mean time I will continue to wear my mask when recommended not just mandated, I use hand sanitizer try and stay away from people where I can. I don't feel my actions are reckless or putting anyone else in danger due to the reasons I mentioned above. I wish everyone well and hope at some point we can get past this crap.
I appreciate being able to have a discussion about different points of view without it getting into a name calling contest, its kind of refreshing from what I have read in this off topic forum.

[QUOTE=kstonich;581739]Its tobacco usage, according to FDA
In fact, tobacco use remains the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States,[URL="https://www.fda.gov/tobacco-products/public-health-education/health-effects-tobacco-use#References"][SUP]1[/SUP][/URL] leading to more than 480,000 deaths each year. Of which approximately 40,000 are secondhand smoke casualties. This outpaces COVID deaths.

From the CDC
Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly [B]6 million[/B] deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030

And from the WHO
The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that each year tobacco causes about [B]6 million[/B] deaths (about 10% of all deaths) with 600,000 of these occurring in non-smokers due to secondhand smoke. In the 20th century tobacco is estimated to have caused [B][U]100 million deaths.[/U][/B]
So, in the last 2 yrs. in the US we have lost approximately 700k to covid and so many people are outraged about the unvaccinated, yet we have lost over 900K to tobacco usage and not a peep. Well here is why I think it is. This is from the CDC and Duke university
[B]Smoking is directly correlated with income level and years of education[/B]. Since the release of the first Surgeon General’s Report on smoking in 1964, smoking has become ever more concentrated among populations with lower incomes and fewer years of education. In the past, the highest income Americans smoked at levels even greater than the poorest; now they smoke at almost half the rate of those with the lowest income. · 21.4 percent of adults with a household income less than $35,000 smoke, compared to 11.4 percent of adults with a household income between $75,000 and $100,000, and 7.1 percent of those with a household income of $100,000 or more. 7 · 24.9 percent of Medicaid enrollees* and 22.5 percent of uninsured individuals smoke, compared to 10.7 percent with private insurance coverage. 8 · Among adults 25 and older, 21.6 percent who do not graduate from high school smoke and 35.3 percent with a GED smoke, compared to just 6.9 percent of those with a college education and 4.0 percent of those with a graduate degree.9 From 2002 to 2016, smoking rates declined among all educational levels, but the percentage of smoking decline for those with a college degree or higher was 2.6 times larger than those with a high school diploma and 1.5 times larger than those who had not obtained a high school diploma.10
The US doesn’t give a dam about certain groups of people, you can’t deny it as they say numbers don’t lie. Or is it because politicians are bought and paid for by big business, sad but it’s probably both.
So, for those of you who are so adamant about people getting vaccinated how about getting on your high horse and look out for the #1 100% preventable killer with no question about how to prevent the deaths of close to 8million people worldwide every year.
Have a nice day[/QUOTE]

Your first paragraph is wrong. There are more covid deaths per year than those deaths caused by smoking.
I stopped reading after that. No sense in reading more false what ever you want to call it.

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581741]Makes sense we ought be aware of all threats to our health. And we ought recognize the risks and dangers of each. In my mind, smoking is a voluntary act, as one decides each time to light up and I openly acknowledge the addictive nature. I think we’d all agree getting Covid is an “ involuntary” act. I don’t think anyone finishes a meal or a beer and decides to relax with a little Covid.

And yet, both smoking and Covid risks are manageable to some degree. It’s up to us to decide about smoking. We can’t smoke in some places because the second hand smoke is a risk to others. Given that “ restriction of smoking freedom”, is it not logical that provisions for public safety ought be in place to help folks avoid Covid when we all logically understand it’s spread is less controllable than smoking? And as it is a recognized public health risk, as smoking is, is it not equally logical, and responsible to enact provisions that limit the “ freedom “ of people to accidentally spread it endangering the safety of others?

Good thought provoking post, most welcomed.

And I continue to thank my fellow citizens for their responsible actions to look out for others while I strive to do the same. But, OMG, isn’t that what soldiers, police, firefighters, health care workers, utility workers, and many more professionals do everyday!

So thanks to all for helping us all work together to be safer.[/QUOTE]

Smoking deaths take years to happen. You get covid and can die in less than a weeks time for some people.

[QUOTE=kstonich;581776]I agree with you about smoking being regulated in certain areas and that it is easier to avoid smokers than an invisible virus. I merely mentioned smoking as an example of fatalities that are preventable.

What bothers me is that I've had tested positive for covid 2x so far ( no symptoms) I in theory have immunity on par with those who have been vaccinated. I would assume that I'm not alone and there are a significant part of our population that is like me.
There is some debate as to the level of protection provided. Since this is a new virus its tough to tell what's more effective, we won't know for along time as things are so fluid.
But we do see from data that the vaccines effectiveness is now being reduced either due to time or mutations of the virus. We don't know the same about natural immunity although I would assume its effectiveness is on par with the vaccine.
From what I read both vaccinated an unvaccinated can carry and transmit the virus.
I live in a small town, last week there were 9 people hospitalized 5 unvaccinated and 4 vaccinated. Extremely small sample size I know, I would guess its more like 70/30 in other places
I for one would think that if there is this push for everyone to get vaccinated, I should be able to be tested to show I also have the anti-bodies in my system. But it doesn't seem likes that's an option unfortunately.
I would think we should be focusing on treatment ( and I assume we are),knowing that this virus will keep mutating.
I don't think that information will be released with the push for the jab is in full force.
But in the mean time I will continue to wear my mask when recommended not just mandated, I use hand sanitizer try and stay away from people where I can. I don't feel my actions are reckless or putting anyone else in danger due to the reasons I mentioned above. I wish everyone well and hope at some point we can get past this crap.
I appreciate being able to have a discussion about different points of view without it getting into a name calling contest, its kind of refreshing from what I have read in this off topic forum.[/QUOTE]

One thing I would note is that if you get vaccinated after having Covid and recovering you are better protected. 8X more protected from what I have read. You have a good immune system if you recovered from Covid. Why not make it better. That way you will have a vaccination card to show as proof of immunization. Not sure if they will ever give people a immunization card for having the Covid and recovering from it. You do know that people can get the Covid twice. And the second time it can be much worse than the first time for some people.

There are people saying that vaccinated people can get the virus and spread it. I think that is not true for the vast majority of healthy people that have been fully vaccinated. Now some or a few people who have weak immune systems that can't make antibodies can get infected even after being fully vaccinated. But that does not mean that all the vaccinated people can get the infection and spread it to others. Still, we need to get more people fully vaccinated. Why? Well, we can't get rid of this virus if only half of us in the human population gets fully vaccinated. If we have 100% vaccinations, then the virus would go away as it would not have any new host to replicate itself in. And if we don't get at least 80% the 20% unvaccinated are still enough people that the virus can infect and replicate itself in. And as long as the virus is replicating itself it can mutate, and a new more dangerous form can emerge. Thus, it's imperative for everyone to get vaccinated and to practice the other safety measure to make sure that these viruses spread is stopped.