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[QUOTE=DJD;521641]I honestly cannot answer that with any personal knowledge or an educated opinion.....look forward to reading what others may have to say on this.[/QUOTE]
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Same here,was born in 45 but I believe that our country has been a better place for the masses the last 60 or 70 years, the best years may be behind us as some seem to think but I'm not ready to give up on us yet.
[QUOTE=Hlleonard;521648]--
Same here,was born in 45 but I believe that our country has been a better place for the masses the last 60 or 70 years, the best years may be behind us as some seem to think but I'm not ready to give up on us yet.[/QUOTE]
You might be right. I think when government offered a helping hand, and not a handout, we were MUCH better.
Now, we have multiple generations of TAKERS indoctrinated in the ways of "milking" the system. Until we change that mindset, you will have people like me HATING IT.
I don't mind helping folks, and have helped more than my share, but handouts are another thing.
Later,
Geo
[QUOTE=GeoFisher;521654]You might be right. I think when government offered a helping hand, and not a handout, we were MUCH better.
Now, we have multiple generations of TAKERS indoctrinated in the ways of "milking" the system. Until we change that mindset, you will have people like me HATING IT.
I don't mind helping folks, and have helped more than my share, but handouts are another thing.
Later,
Geo[/QUOTE]
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Something else we can agree on, the difference between you and I seems to be whether or not we believe the good outweighs the bad and which end of the scale does the most damage to our budget. You have a great day sir.
[QUOTE=Hlleonard;521612]Do you guys believe we had a better country before or after WW11?.. Not for the few but for the many.[/QUOTE]
I think our lives are significantly easier now (for many people), but the country is not as good as it once was. That's a direct reflection of its people and its government.
[QUOTE=know1;521608]Our employers shouldn't even be providing health insurance. That's where this mess started.
The government shouldn't either.[/QUOTE]
I always had insurance provided by my employers and I'm 50. Been working since I was 14. Curious what your thoughts are there. Thanks
[QUOTE=DJD;521683]I always had insurance provided by my employers and I'm 50. Been working since I was 14. Curious what your thoughts are there. Thanks[/QUOTE]
Michael I meant your thoughts on how employers providing it was a mistake. Lol not thoughts on me working or my age. :)
Employer provided insurance is nothing more than part of your paycheck, it is somewhat beneficial to the employer as they likely have a healthier work force, if they provide insurance instead of including that part of your pay on your paycheck and expecting you to buy your own insurance a lot of their employees would not have health insurance.
[QUOTE=DJD;521685]Michael I meant your thoughts on how employers providing it was a mistake. Lol not thoughts on me working or my age. :)[/QUOTE]
I knew what you meant ;)
There are just so many reasons that I think it's a bad idea that I don't have time to list them all.
In the first place, I think the way we utilize health insurance is poor anyway. We should be using it like we do car or house insurance where we have a high deductible and we pay for most "daily" things out of pocket. Imagine what the cost of groceries would be if we had a system of "grocery insurance" where we gave our money to some other industry (grocery insurance), they set the prices, paid for our groceries, and kept their own operating expenses and profit. We'd NEVER accept that and the cost of groceries would go through the roof, but that is exactly what we do with health insurance.
But getting back to employer provided, I don't like it for several reasons.
1. It is a sort of "remote control" where the money comes right our of our paycheck and we never see it. At the very least, if we were paid that money and then had to make the health insurance payments ourselves, we might see how ridiculous the costs have become and start really trying to make changes.
2. We allow some of the most important decisions that we have to be made by our employer - i.e. control over our healthcare decisions. They are the ones choosing the health insurance provider and plan options. Why wouldn't we want to be able to decide what plan is best for us on our own?
3. If I had had the option of my employer giving me the money it paid for my insurance premiums from day one and had been able to choose my own plans, I would have gone with a high deductible plan that I only used for major illnesses or injuries and I would have saved up the difference over all these years and likely had a huge medical emergency fund at this time. Instead, I just had my money taken out and added to by my employer and funneled to some plan that wasn't in my best interest. There wasn't anything I could do about it. Sure I could have opted out, but then I wouldn't be getting that money from my employer.
It's gotten to the point where people almost equate having a job with their own healthcare. They are vastly different things and I think they should be separated.
Here, let me toss this one out there. We are switching insurance beginning in 2014 to match what the rest of the hospitals in our "system" have. The amount taken out of each check varies by salary/income level. There are four tiers, so if you make more, you have more taken out of your check for the EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF COVERAGE. It's like income taxes now.
Fortunately I am on my wife's insurance plan - we do the high deductible deal.
I couldn't believe this when I opened the email, and had never seen employer provided insurance done this way.
Does anybody else have employer provided insurance that is tiered according to how much you make?
[QUOTE=know1;521697]I knew what you meant ;)
There are just so many reasons that I think it's a bad idea that I don't have time to list them all.
In the first place, I think the way we utilize health insurance is poor anyway. We should be using it like we do car or house insurance where we have a high deductible and we pay for most "daily" things out of pocket. Imagine what the cost of groceries would be if we had a system of "grocery insurance" where we gave our money to some other industry (grocery insurance), they set the prices, paid for our groceries, and kept their own operating expenses and profit. We'd NEVER accept that and the cost of groceries would go through the roof, but that is exactly what we do with health insurance.
But getting back to employer provided, I don't like it for several reasons.
1. It is a sort of "remote control" where the money comes right our of our paycheck and we never see it. At the very least, if we were paid that money and then had to make the health insurance payments ourselves, we might see how ridiculous the costs have become and start really trying to make changes.
2. We allow some of the most important decisions that we have to be made by our employer - i.e. control over our healthcare decisions. They are the ones choosing the health insurance provider and plan options. Why wouldn't we want to be able to decide what plan is best for us on our own?
3. If I had had the option of my employer giving me the money it paid for my insurance premiums from day one and had been able to choose my own plans, I would have gone with a high deductible plan that I only used for major illnesses or injuries and I would have saved up the difference over all these years and likely had a huge medical emergency fund at this time. Instead, I just had my money taken out and added to by my employer and funneled to some plan that wasn't in my best interest. There wasn't anything I could do about it. Sure I could have opted out, but then I wouldn't be getting that money from my employer.
It's gotten to the point where people almost equate having a job with their own healthcare. They are vastly different things and I think they should be separated.[/QUOTE]
Man, you hit the NAIL on the head.
I'm on an HSA and have fairly low premiums, but a CRAZY high deductible. When I compare my plan with other plans that are non HSA with high premiums and low or now deductible, my plan actually comes really close or beats them.
The Bean Counters in every insurance company have huge what-if processes to determine what are the best plans for a particular demographic in a particular age group or region. TRUST me on this.....they know how each and every type of plan breaks down...and can give you the profits of each type of plan off the top of their head.
I have no issue paying for the stuff I SHOULD pay for.....the maintenance. But when I cut my arm off, I expect my insurance company to pony up and fix it. AS THEY HAVE.
Do the math sometime.......you will be surprised how it actually pans out.
Later,
Geo
[QUOTE=know1;521697]I knew what you meant ;)
There are just so many reasons that I think it's a bad idea that I don't have time to list them all.
In the first place, I think the way we utilize health insurance is poor anyway. We should be using it like we do car or house insurance where we have a high deductible and we pay for most "daily" things out of pocket. Imagine what the cost of groceries would be if we had a system of "grocery insurance" where we gave our money to some other industry (grocery insurance), they set the prices, paid for our groceries, and kept their own operating expenses and profit. We'd NEVER accept that and the cost of groceries would go through the roof, but that is exactly what we do with health insurance.
But getting back to employer provided, I don't like it for several reasons.
1. It is a sort of "remote control" where the money comes right our of our paycheck and we never see it. At the very least, if we were paid that money and then had to make the health insurance payments ourselves, we might see how ridiculous the costs have become and start really trying to make changes.
2. We allow some of the most important decisions that we have to be made by our employer - i.e. control over our healthcare decisions. They are the ones choosing the health insurance provider and plan options. Why wouldn't we want to be able to decide what plan is best for us on our own?
3. If I had had the option of my employer giving me the money it paid for my insurance premiums from day one and had been able to choose my own plans, I would have gone with a high deductible plan that I only used for major illnesses or injuries and I would have saved up the difference over all these years and likely had a huge medical emergency fund at this time. Instead, I just had my money taken out and added to by my employer and funneled to some plan that wasn't in my best interest. There wasn't anything I could do about it. Sure I could have opted out, but then I wouldn't be getting that money from my employer.
It's gotten to the point where people almost equate having a job with their own healthcare. They are vastly different things and I think they should be separated.[/QUOTE]
Gotcha! Interesting thoughts and I agree but the problem is the uninsured not the responsible or capable......this tactic of how our elected leaders are punishing (helping?) us reminds me of the military. In the military everyone was punished because of the irresponsible or guilty party.
We change providers every year or two at the shop. They pay for employees and we pay for spouse or family plans but I never participated in the family plans because it was crazy high! I pay for my older daughters plan on my own with a high deductible plan and it was a tenth of what the chosen plan was at the office.....I was told it was because of the health history of the people participating in the plan and again I feel it's like we are being punished based on others. My daughters insurance goes up as she reaches certain age milestones, more risk about pregnancy and cancer I guess.
In 13 years she has been to the doctor for minor illness maybe 10 times. Of course we are covered if a major illness or injury pops up but man it has cost me a lot over those years. I guess in our case the gamble has paid off for the insurance company as they get my monthly premium and bank it.
[QUOTE=DJD;521736]
We change providers every year or two at the shop. They pay for employees and we pay for spouse or family plans but I never participated in the family plans because it was crazy high! I pay for my older daughters plan on my own with a high deductible plan and it was a tenth of what the chosen plan was at the office.....I was told it was because of the health history of the people participating in the plan and again I feel it's like we are being punished based on others. My daughters insurance goes up as she reaches certain age milestones, more risk about pregnancy and cancer I guess.
[/QUOTE]
You're RIGHT...the CLAIMS experience of ANY group determines the premiums for that group.
Your policy and an exact same policy against a healthier group will have significant difference in cost. It has ALWAYS been that way, and will always be that way, even under OBAMACARE.
later,
gEo