Effects of Global Warming are real

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;555172]Not really........there is just as much "science" that states that the warming we worry about is cyclic, and that we've spent TRILLIONS on a non issue.

Ice Caps are larger today than they were 30 years ago......Places that were disappearing due to warming are now growing.

I'm quite SICK of the bull...........Anytime money and gubment are involved, some jack ass will come up with some study to live off the tit of uncle sam.

Some of the same data that told us the polar region was disappearing is being used to say ......OOPS we screwed the pooch on that one.

[url]http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum/[/url]

And with glacier national park...........Gore said the glaciers would be gone by 2030...

Well you know what.......they stopped shrinking,, and I believe the USGS has removed their bull crap sites stating they will be gone.

10 years ago, all you heard was bad, bad, bad, bad. NOW, you cannot even find a recent article about Glacier melting away.............

Like I said.......cycles........

[url]https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/05/04/usgs-appears-to-be-removing-its-websites-claiming-all-glaciers-will-be-melted-from-glacier-national-park-by-2030/[/url][/QUOTE]


I took a class in Historical Geology up at Purdue University along with the current director of the Indiana DNR Fish and Wildlife Director. We were classmates back then and both got A's in the class. So when it comes to talking about historical geology and the melting and forming of glaciers I'm pretty well versed on that subject. Or was back when I was still in school. I may have forgot a few details but not many.

Anyway I truly believe that the RATE of melting has been accelerated by mankind's activities on the earth. Especially burning of coal and oil since the Industrial Revolution. To deny that fact is not wise.

The bottom line is that it probably won't really have much impact on us as far as ocean levels go in the short time. But in Geologic time it could be catastrophic. There use to be two different types of Geologists. Those that believed in Uniformitarianism and those that were Catastrophism believers.

[url]http://www.uniformitarianism.net/[/url]

I personally think that both are or were at work. Events can happen suddenly and fast and also slowly over time. And it's very hard to tell the difference some times after millions of years or even tens of thousands of years have passed.

I also worked for the EPA (local agency) and it was one of my jobs to determine exactly how much fossil fuels were being used by industry in my area and how that impacted the local atmosphere. Modeling can be used to help determine the amount of air pollution that's impacting the area and sampling data can be used to calibrate the models.

Almost sounds like you all are in violent agreement.

1. Man effects the environment.
2. Environment effects man.
3. Short term impacts can be reversed
4. Un-reversed short term effects can impact long term natural cycles.
5. And there are natural long term cycles beyond man's control.

Volcanoes man can't control. Volcanoes can dramatically add dust to the atmosphere that impacts significant areas solar light penetration. Shift of tectonic plates are not on man's "I need fix that" list, but the resulting expulsion of super heated lava impacts ocean temperatures in localized regions.

What if we just agreed to no add to our natural problems? We can call it global warming prevention, or we can just call it "Protecting our environment", by acting responsible regarding all forms of unnatural emissions.

And of course, we have to be able to recognize those things that are beyond us to control and learn to thru adaption live around them.

Give me grace to accept with serenitythe things that cannot be changed,Courage to change the thingswhich should be changed,and the Wisdom to distinguishthe one from the other.

A quote from our local Utility Vectren which I clipped and pasted from the local paper this morning. I feel it's relevant to this discussion about Global Warming. It's also effecting the Tri-State area.

"Warmer weather this year was the main reason utility profits declined, Vectren said. Temperatures for the first three months of 2016 were warmer than they were the previous year, which meant customers did not spend as much on heating."

As you can see the economics of global warming is not treating the coal burning power plants as well as in the past. Declining usage of coal is lowering their profits to the share holders. They lost money. I wonder if that is why people who own stock in the utilities often refuse to admit that Global Warming is real and that it's accelerating and cased by the excessive emissions of green house gases into the Earth's atmosphere. These gases are clearly being released by 7 billion human's who's activities cause these excessive green house gases. If you don't think this is correct then I recommend you get a calculator and the UESPA book of Emission Factors that documents the amount of CO2 and other pollutants that are release for so many BTU's of heat energy burned when using coal or oil. Even natural Gas (Cleanest Fossil Fuel around) burns and releases ton's of NOX and CO2 into the atmosphere. Remember from your Chemistry Class that when you burn coal (CH4 Chains) with O2 you end up with a lot of CO2 and heat energy. Methane burns much more efficiently that coal does but that also means that for each therm of Natural Gas Burned there is a lot of CO2 released. So even the cleanest fossil fuel is responsible for releasing CO2 into the Air and CO2 is one of the major green house gases. Now remember that we all basically burn natural gas in our home furnaces these days. In the past we have fewer people who burned coal or oil or propane to heat their homes. But these days we have a lot more people. Twice the number of people that we have 35 years ago. So the amount of fossil fuels burned has increased drastically over the past 100 years. The Earth is a small planet or Ball flying though space with a limited atmosphere surrounding it. All you have to do is take a look at some of the pictures of the Earth taken from the Space Station over the years. Back off a few light years and the Earth is just a tiny spec out there in space. While it's very significant to we who live here it's just a spec of dust to everything else in the Universe.

[QUOTE=Dobe Mejuwa;555185]Almost sounds like you all are in violent agreement.

1. Man effects the environment.
2. Environment effects man.
3. Short term impacts can be reversed
4. Un-reversed short term effects can impact long term natural cycles.
5. And there are natural long term cycles beyond man's control.

Volcanoes man can't control. Volcanoes can dramatically add dust to the atmosphere that impacts significant areas solar light penetration. Shift of tectonic plates are not on man's "I need fix that" list, but the resulting expulsion of super heated lava impacts ocean temperatures in localized regions.

What if we just agreed to no add to our natural problems? We can call it global warming prevention, or we can just call it "Protecting our environment", by acting responsible regarding all forms of unnatural emissions.

And of course, we have to be able to recognize those things that are beyond us to control and learn to thru adaption live around them.

Give me grace to accept with serenitythe things that cannot be changed,Courage to change the thingswhich should be changed,and the Wisdom to distinguishthe one from the other.[/QUOTE]

Having worked for the EPA in the air pollution department gave me a lot of experience calculating the emissions from various man made sources of air pollution. From the automobile to the Giant Factories like ALCOA and GE I've visited them all over the past 40 years of my career as an EPA official and as a consultant for private industry.

I live to fish and hunt and it was my goal to try to preserve the earth for the next generation as much as humanly possible. So while I can't control the inner working of the Earth and the forces that move continent around on the surface of the earth I can try to limit the burning of the dirties fossil fuels around a little bit. We won't be able to get completely off coal or oil or even natural gas until we learn to capture solar energy much more efficiently. You see we are using solar energy right now but its the one that nature captured in the Earth's Plants and animals over the past zillion years. Those plants lived and died on the earth many millions of years ago, died and became buried in the earth. Covered up with more and more sediment caused by the hydrologic cycle these remains were put under intense pressure and heat and turned into the fossil fuels that we know today. They were once green plants capturing the sunlight years ago using Chlorophyll in their leaves. What if we could figure out how Chlorophyll captures the sunlight and turns it from Air and Water into Sugar and Starches and other fibers? Just think about how many trees and other plants have died and been buried in the ground over the past 4 or 5 billion or more years.

Look at the Earth today and we are burning more and more trees to make land for growing crops for our own food. Trees gather up CO2 and make sugar from it using water and other minerals in the soils. They produce lots of Oxygen. But the most Oxygen is produced in the World's Oceans that are full of small one cells plant cells. These are the plants that produce lots of new Oxygen and take up the CO2 in the atmosphere. The Oceans and the Trees are the CO2 sinks so to speak. So it would be best for mankind if we protect the oceans and the trees to some extent. But the more humans we have on this earth the more resources they require and the more pollution they put out.

So basically we are exceeding the carrying capacity of the Earth in some places and using up the resource at a faster rate. Now some of these resources are renewable. We can regrow trees over time. But time is the key. It takes 100 years to regrow and hard wood forest. So timing and rate of use are two keys that we have to manage.

It is UNREAL the trillions and trillions of dollars to be spent over the next decade for 1/100th of 1 percent reduction in global warming.

That is RIGHT boys and girls..........from 95.01 to 95.00..........

WHAT a JOKE.

[video=youtube;rVZD--zVNa4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVZD--zVNa4[/video]

Come on my ultra LEFTIST , Liberal friends............lets year some justification.

Just wondering:

1. We can look back and make assumptions about what climate on earth was like billions of years ago. I know those are well based in many scientific methods. But really, was anyone here to really accurately record what was occurring, do we have empirical data?
2. It's natural to dread and be anxious about change, and fear the unknown. Can we really know, I mean know what earth would be like if it was a little warmer?
3. If there were less ice caps, would we have more land for forests to grow on, glaciers included? And wouldn't that add to the ecology naturally?
4. So if Florida became a dessert, and KY became like Florida, and Maine became more like KY weather wise, we'd all be warmer, use less energy for heat, and conversely us more A/C to stay cool. Which costs more, A/C or electric heating?
5. If the states about changed as noted, wouldn't the tourist economy just naturally shift, diminishing one economy, but booming the next?
6. Can really be sure a "different climate", "new environmental reality", would be bad, or might it just cause a shift in patterns of weather that might just be more beneficial to some new region?
7. Change is not always bad, sometimes it brings good, new rewards, if we accept the new challenges.

PS: Florida did not become a tourist trap because of Mother nature. Man built the hotels, resorts, parks, rec areas, boat ramps, amusement centers, that accommodated and lured in more visitors. If there was no where to sleep, or be entertained, then fewer would go there.

Besides.....if all this will occur in a thousand years or so, don't we think man will evolve to meet those challenges?.
100 years ago we didn't fly around in jets, we rode mainly on horses, not Camaros, and the telegraph was the "low speed internet". If we came that far, and can do all this now, what makes us think we can't overcome and adapt to Beach Resorts in Maine, and Ski slopes in Florida?

what caused the mini ice age a few hundred years ago? if man controls temperature, why not repeat that?