After effects of 911 20 years later.

[QUOTE=Moveon;581670]
Trump is the blithering idiot. No one can deny that. Biden is 1000 times better than Trump.
[/QUOTE]

Let history provides us the facts we all experience to be the basis of such conclusions:
1. Border/Immigration then vs now
2. Inflation then vs now
3. Gasoline prices and availability then and now
4. Afghanistan then and now. (Noted fairly that one president left before the fully consequnences of the decision could be felt). What happened there for all we know could have been the same under either leader as the Afghan Army took early retirement.

In my opinion the Covid deal can't be attributed to presidential leadership when both had different roles to play. Trump getting vacine moving, Biden continuing distribution. Darn it people its a national medical emergency and using it for political gain is distasteful, opportunistic, and reprehensible.

To be accurate: Neither president had a dog in the fight when COVID caused home prices to get stupid high, building materials to become expensive/scare avaialbility, car chips to be non-available crushing new car availability and driving used car prices thru the roof.

If I had one wish for this country it would be for our leaders to stop playing games on either side, address the real problems and work together to find long term beneficial solutions. I'm embarrassed by the childish, sensationalistic, selfish antics of selected people on both sides of the aisle. And having said that, I also recognize there are still some darn good, honest, hard working representatives of both parties out there trying to identify and solve real problems while putting playing games, calling names, and acting like spoiled brats on the back burned.

But other that that, "So Far so Good".

Tell ya what, next time you call 911 because your house is on fire (like our country is), lets take a little time to explore your political affiliation before we decide if and what form of support you get in response. Maybe a lecture, instead of a fire hose. SOLVE THE PROBLEM! Could we spend more time on that instead of pole vaulting over mouse crap?

Example, if the fire fighter arrives and saves my home, I don't want the news reporting what race, gender, political party, vaccination status, or masking preference the fire fighter is involved with, nor should we touch off a major discussion of how the environment is the cause of the fire because the homeowner was too stupid to put a ground wire on his TV antenna. ADDRESS THE PROBLEM, THE REAL PROBLEM, FOCUS ON FIXES, EXECUTE IT AND JUST GET IT DONE!

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;581671]It is absolute lunacy that YOU think drop boxes and more mail in ballots are the answer to more folks voting.

Drop Boxes, are probably the absolute worse thing we ever introduced into our elections. Mail in ballots are fine, as long as they are VALIDATED, and they were not.

You brush over the fact that you cannot validate a vote in a drop box, and the mail in ****, is woefully inaccurate.

Until states are MANDATED to keep the ballot and the mail in envelope together while being counted, and while being recounted, I will NEVER believe mail in votes should EVER be utilized. Pennsylvania had so many issues with this a Supreme Court justice made a demand that they be kept together, AND the state sent the courts a big EFF YOU. That is a gigantic problem IMHO.

You missed the biggest issue with this past election......Ballot Harvesting. The Ballot harvesting is what turned Georgia.

States FIXED this ****.

Finally voter election law is up to the STATES, not the federal government, and that is what was recently shot down.

We shall see how things end up, but I suspect without all the Covid shenanigans, the democrats will be hard pressed to garner the votes they did in 2020.

RED WAVE, 2022.

Later,

Geo[/QUOTE]

The GOP knows that is more people vote that they don't stand a chance of winning. That is why they are doing everything that they can to manipulate the voting districts, the voting methods and the methods of determining who counts the votes.

Bottom line is the GOP is setting up their CHEAT mechanisms and blaming the dems for cheating in the last election. But they won many state wide elections using the same voting machines and systems. Can't have it both ways.

[QUOTE=Moveon;581673]The GOP knows that is more people vote that they don't stand a chance of winning. That is why they are doing everything that they can to manipulate the voting districts, the voting methods and the methods of determining who counts the votes.

Bottom line is the GOP is setting up their CHEAT mechanisms and blaming the dems for cheating in the last election. But they won many state wide elections using the same voting machines and systems. Can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE]

Hey, since Biden beat Trump, then how could we say Trump left Biden an Afghan mess? Seems to me if you compete to be president and win, you inherit the country as is. So since Biden is president, all that the dems do or fail to do is what they bought and paid for. You either are the boss and are in charge or you are not.

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581677]Hey, since Biden beat Trump, then how could we say Trump left Biden an Afghan mess? Seems to me if you compete to be president and win, you inherit the country as is. So since Biden is president, all that the dems do or fail to do is what they bought and paid for. You either are the boss and are in charge or you are not.[/QUOTE]

Trump signed a deal with the Taliban to pull the US troops out of Afghanistan. Biden is doing what Trump wanted. So why blame this on Biden. Blame it on Trump. He is the one that started all this mess and didn't have a good plan to get us out of there. Now I do think that Biden should have waited until he had a better plan but the clock was already ticking.

[QUOTE=Moveon;581679]Trump signed a deal with the Taliban to pull the US troops out of Afghanistan. Biden is doing what Trump wanted. So why blame this on Biden. Blame it on Trump. He is the one that started all this mess and didn't have a good plan to get us out of there. Now I do think that Biden should have waited until he had a better plan but the clock was already ticking.[/QUOTE]

Not blaming. Commanders are responsible for all they do or Fail to do. Given last president started the ball moving, new guy gets to decide to continue or stop. He decided to continue, his call, and I support that. The essence then becomes the execution of the paln. A good plan poorly executed falls below expectations. I think part of the issue was that the Talibon needed more strongly reminded why it is they needed to honor their agreements with us. A couple A-10's, or AC 130's would have provided doorstep delivery of those reminders most effectively.

I think what caused most of the issue during withdrawal was the over emphasis on a deadline date. Ya never telegraph your intent to an enemy. You tell the bad guys we will leave when its safe for us to do so and we will knock the stuffings out of you if you harm and american while we do it. Why you set that stage of strength you then quietly get people out so that the last thing to go is announced after the fact. JMHO.

All that said and being fair, we were supported by the Afghan Army that just gave up. And they did so partly because they felt unsupported, but partly also because they never did fully assue the responsibility for defending thier own country and country men. Given that variable, it may have been just as much a mess under either leader.

If I am president today, then all that happens or fails to happen is my responsibility to make good.

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581682]Not blaming. Commanders are responsible for all they do or Fail to do. Given last president started the ball moving, new guy gets to decide to continue or stop. He decided to continue, his call, and I support that. The essence then becomes the execution of the paln. A good plan poorly executed falls below expectations. I think part of the issue was that the Talibon needed more strongly reminded why it is they needed to honor their agreements with us. A couple A-10's, or AC 130's would have provided doorstep delivery of those reminders most effectively.

I think what caused most of the issue during withdrawal was the over emphasis on a deadline date. Ya never telegraph your intent to an enemy. You tell the bad guys we will leave when its safe for us to do so and we will knock the stuffings out of you if you harm and american while we do it. Why you set that stage of strength you then quietly get people out so that the last thing to go is announced after the fact. JMHO.

All that said and being fair, we were supported by the Afghan Army that just gave up. And they did so partly because they felt unsupported, but partly also because they never did fully assue the responsibility for defending thier own country and country men. Given that variable, it may have been just as much a mess under either leader.

If I am president today, then all that happens or fails to happen is my responsibility to make good.[/QUOTE]

PS: If I buy a boat from you with a leak in it, then decide to put it in the water anyway, before taking precautions to make sure it will float, then I don't beleive I have anyone to blame when I launch and then my feet get wet.

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581672]Let history provides us the facts we all experience to be the basis of such conclusions:
1. Border/Immigration then vs now
2. Inflation then vs now
3. Gasoline prices and availability then and now
4. Afghanistan then and now. (Noted fairly that one president left before the fully consequnences of the decision could be felt). What happened there for all we know could have been the same under either leader as the Afghan Army took early retirement.
[/QUOTE]

The problem with these yardsticks, especially #2 and #3, is that fluctuations are caused by complicated factors, presidential actions often being the least significant of them.

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581683]PS: If I buy a boat from you with a leak in it, then decide to put it in the water anyway, before taking precautions to make sure it will float, then I don't believe I have anyone to blame when I launch and then my feet get wet.[/QUOTE]

If you buy the entire US Government it takes a lot of time to put everything into order and when you have the last owner doing everything in their power to screw with you you can't blame it on the new owner if things are not working right after a short period of time. Now if the Dems actually had 6o votes in the US Senate and could fully implement their full agenda then after 4 years you could decide if that is good for American or not. But as long as the US Senate and the GOP can block every thing that the Democrats try to do in the Senate you can't blame things on the President. You have to blame Mitch McConnell too.

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581682]Not blaming. Commanders are responsible for all they do or Fail to do. Given last president started the ball moving, new guy gets to decide to continue or stop. He decided to continue, his call, and I support that. The essence then becomes the execution of the paln. A good plan poorly executed falls below expectations. I think part of the issue was that the Talibon needed more strongly reminded why it is they needed to honor their agreements with us. A couple A-10's, or AC 130's would have provided doorstep delivery of those reminders most effectively.

I think what caused most of the issue during withdrawal was the over emphasis on a deadline date. Ya never telegraph your intent to an enemy. You tell the bad guys we will leave when its safe for us to do so and we will knock the stuffings out of you if you harm and american while we do it. Why you set that stage of strength you then quietly get people out so that the last thing to go is announced after the fact. JMHO.

All that said and being fair, we were supported by the Afghan Army that just gave up. And they did so partly because they felt unsupported, but partly also because they never did fully assue the responsibility for defending thier own country and country men. Given that variable, it may have been just as much a mess under either leader.

If I am president today, then all that happens or fails to happen is my responsibility to make good.[/QUOTE]

* Trump would have never left Bagram.
* Trump would have never removed the troops first
* Trump would have never left Americans behind.
* Trump would have never left 86 billion dollars in equipment.

Say what you want, but BIDEN totally effed this up.

I find it laughable how folks try to Justify what Biden is doing, and has done.

See how I did that MoveON, without calling Biden every single disgusting word in the book. like you seem to do EVERY time you mention Trump.

Biden is the president, he is my president........He is HORRIBLE at it, but he's still the president.

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=Moveon;581685]If you buy the entire US Government it takes a lot of time to put everything into order and when you have the last owner doing everything in their power to screw with you you can't blame it on the new owner if things are not working right after a short period of time. Now if the Dems actually had 6o votes in the US Senate and could fully implement their full agenda then after 4 years you could decide if that is good for American or not. But as long as the US Senate and the GOP can block every thing that the Democrats try to do in the Senate you can't blame things on the President. You have to blame Mitch McConnell too.[/QUOTE]

Interested to understand how prior President was actively involved in Afghan situation 5 to 8 months after no longer being in a position of authority? Seems guy in power directs military ops, not the one gone 5-8 months.

I think if getting out was done with true force demonstrated to The “ Tally Wackers” things may have been different.

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;581687]* Trump would have never left Bagram.
* Trump would have never removed the troops first
* Trump would have never left Americans behind.
* Trump would have never left 86 billion dollars in equipment.

Say what you want, but BIDEN totally effed this up.

I find it laughable how folks try to Justify what Biden is doing, and has done.

See how I did that MoveON, without calling Biden every single disgusting word in the book. like you seem to do EVERY time you mention Trump.

Biden is the president, he is my president........He is HORRIBLE at it, but he's still the president.

Later,

Geo[/QUOTE]
🤔 Support the concept of clarity but also civility in disagreements. Well done mate!

[QUOTE=ZoraSpook;581689]Interested to understand how prior President was actively involved in Afghan situation 5 to 8 months after no longer being in a position of authority? Seems guy in power directs military ops, not the one gone 5-8 months.

I think if getting out was done with true force demonstrated to The “ Tally Wackers” things may have been different.[/QUOTE]

Trump made an agreement on behalf of the USA to get our troops out of Afghanistan after Trump left the White House. Biden simply honored our agreement on behalf of the USA. Both Trump and Biden wanted us out of Afghanistan. But since trump lost the election Biden had to carry out the plan.

I really don't care what happens in Afghanistan. I care about what happens here in the USA more than some forign country thousands of miles away from where I live.