Question for the Obama Voters

Man this whole educational problem approach is way off in my opinion. I think we all agree that just throwing money at it won't fix the problem. I also think we all agree that the problem starts at home and until we get these lazy worthless excuse for parents off their potato chip, pie eating, Oprah lovin' butts this will always be a problem. You want top notch teachers? Pay top notch wages, don't give it to them make them prove they are worthy. I have heard and seen several teachers that just cruise their way through out educational system.

Do teachers go through a recertification program each year? If not they should and if they don't pass they don't teach. Thats how we treat Nurses and several other professions and if we want teachers to be on their game then make them play with the proper mental tools.

We can't fix the kids! It's the parents or lack of and the system itself.

Whew! I feel better.:) hagd

[QUOTE=DJD;342050]Man this whole educational problem approach is way off in my opinion. I think we all agree that just throwing money at it won't fix the problem. I also think we all agree that the problem starts at home and until we get these lazy worthless excuse for parents off their potato chip, pie eating, Oprah lovin' butts this will always be a problem. You want top notch teachers? Pay top notch wages, don't give it to them make them prove they are worthy. I have heard and seen several teachers that just cruise their way through out educational system.

Do teachers go through a recertification program each year? If not they should and if they don't pass they don't teach. Thats how we treat Nurses and several other professions and if we want teachers to be on their game then make them play with the proper mental tools.

We can't fix the kids! It's the parents or lack of and the system itself.

Whew! I feel better.:) hagd[/QUOTE]

I love this topic, I can talk about this all day. To be honest, in 9 years in public education I have only been around 2 or 3 teachers that were incompetent - one never finished an entire year, the others were not back the next year. The problems is not getting rid of bad teachers - it is finding and keeping good ones. Also, just like in government a school is only as successful as it's leader. Bad administrators are the one's that keep around the bad teachers. If you want to make changes in schools it starts at the administrative level. All districts in the state of Ky have set salary schedules - every teacher with the same ammount of experience and same level of education are paid exactly the same.

No, teachers are not required to go through a re-certification process yearly. A good administrator will formally evaluate each teacher on a yearly basis regaurdless of tenure. Tenure just ensures you will have a job as long as your position is not cut - it does not protect against dismissal in any way, shape or form.

Most teacher do it beacuase they love it. I have, one (nearly two) Masters, a certification for administration/principal for all levels, as well as district level administration certification in administration of special education programs. I turn down, or pass up an administrative job yearly (just did a couple of weeks ago), because I love the classroom. However, with two kids on the way, the extra money offered in the other positions may become more convincing in the near future. There will come a time with me, just as with all successful classroom teachers, that the money will out weigh the love of it.

Voucher's for school choice, only hurts the problem. It still does nothing to motivate successful teachers - their pay does not change, but the size of the classrooms will. For example you have a failing school, those students are given vouchers to attend other local schools that are successful. How does that help the failing school? It doesn't. How does that help the successful school - it Doesn't, it actually creates a potential for that school to fail. Rapidly raise attendance, schools will be required to quickly hire new faculty to compensate for the growth, and no additional funding will be given to the new schools other than the traditional federal SEEK formula which allots funds based on enrollment. This is a formula to sustain the educational performance, not to create new programs to benefit such a large percentage of enrollment increase. The Voucher system cannot exist under a government funded program, only if all schools were privately funded. If that were the case, then performance cannot be adequately assessed at the government level. Vouchers are the worst possible scenario of education reform.

I agree Don, the family structure plays a major role in the decline of education. Let's look at McCain's Voucher plan. You have mentioned before that you pay for your child to attend a private school, because you agree and approve of the quality of education they provide your child. Where do you think students with vouchers from failing schools will attend. Private schools are the schools that will be targeted with vouchers. Now it has become a public institution, and will eventually operate and perform just as the surrounding public schools. The only difference is your tuition will not disappear, it will still be considered a "private" school that you voluntarily chose to send your child to. You will have a choice to continue to pay to send your child to a now "public" school and pay, or send your child to your local district school. The Voucher system will never work, and I don't see how McCain supports this.

[QUOTE=kyfanatic;342037]Looks to me like you play both sides of the field.

Personally,I don't want either McCain or Obama to win,but we don't have much of a choice do we?[/QUOTE]


Lesser of two evils?

First, It would be stupid to announce a timeline for withdraw of troops. The insurgents would lay low and wait for withdraw and the rest of the world will be crying for the U.S to do something. Second the war on terror is worldwide, not just in Afghanistan. Third, Obama cannot implement his healthcare plan and all of these social programs without raising taxes. Yes he is raising my taxes. There are many small businesses that make more than $250,000. Just a small carpentry business with 5 employees making $10 an hour pays out over just $100,000 a year in wages. These employees are not getting rich but it's a start. If you tax that business the owner will just do more with less...less employees. There ya go Joe ...loss of jobs. Obama says he'll take a scalpel to the budget, a scapel can't cut deep enough to pay for his social programs: that more people will be using because they will be out of work.McKain has said that NCLB is broke and needs fixing, he has a plan for that. The problem with that is the funding was left behind. The standards were put in place but the money to enable schools to meet that standard wasn't there. My wife is a teacher and she lost her job due to budget cuts. The plan that Obama has is socialist in its ideology and the more the people depend on the government, the more they will be controlled by the government. Sorry Colonel McKain is my pick> Just my opinion with alot of facts!

Tom523, I couldn't agree with you more on the Obama crisis.....So why can't the rest of the US population that aren't voting for McCain-Palin see the light at the end of the tunnel. The Tunnel being the Election in 18 days.....If Obama "is" elected, which I hope not, I see a lot more serious things happening to the American people...With a Democratic President and a House already controlled by Democrats....There won't be much to stop all the crazy things that Obama wants to do to waste our hard earned Tax dollars.......

I really hate to say it, but those that think the Country is divided now...They'll really see a divided USA, if Obama wins the Election.....

If Obama wins, our Constitution will be destroyed. Why?

Let's not forget the Supreme Court Justices he will be picking. That alone scares the heck out of me.

The Second Amendment was BARELY upheld by the Court' most recent decision.

[QUOTE=MsgMills;342103]
I really hate to say it, but those that think the Country is divided now...They'll really see a divided USA, if Obama wins the Election.....[/QUOTE]

I really hope this is not the case. Although I never voted for G.W., I at least gave him the benefit of the doubt - especially throughout his first term. I guess I have little say in terms of policy, except to abide.

[QUOTE=Tom523;342096] McKain has said that NCLB is broke and needs fixing, he has a plan for that. The problem with that is the funding was left behind. The standards were put in place but the money to enable schools to meet that standard wasn't there. [/QUOTE]

Have you examined McCain's education proposal. It is no different than NCLB, except for offereing vouchers in the tier 3 failing schools. So in a way it is making a bad policy worse. Do you know where school's recieve the bulk of thier money? Local property taxes. I garauntee, that the voucher initiative will bring about the highest increase in your local property taxes that you have seen in the last 50 years.

Col you have been outnumberd on this forum, but you are still fighting. I do not see how any canidate when elected can do anything without rasing some taxes, Guys we are in the WORST financil crises since the 30's mostly due to but some will never admit it, due to unknown reasons, is this stupid war of BUSH'S. We are spending 10 BILLION a mth there, that is 10 BILLION DOLLARS, TAX PAYERS DOLLARS, and you wonder why we are broke as a country? And in this mess? By the way that is 120 BILLION a year, x 6 years = 720 BILLION an the bailout is 750 BILLION and growing and we owe China several BILLION, and no telling how many other countrys we owe BILLIONS to, due to paying for this war, This war has takning a major toll on our economy here, gas up due to they say supply/demand,,well this war is demanding a lot of fuel, also it has taken a serious toll on our military, depleting it to a state that I fear that we cannot defend our country at this time properly,we citizens would have to take up that slack. The ones who have profited the most from this war has been Cheny/Haliburtin and the Saudie's. Some have said that if we pull out we lose, wake up WE HAVE ALREADY LOST, the TERROSITS WHOLE PLAN WAS TO HIT THE US'S ECONOMY and they have SUCCEDED. What I am saying is not Biased nor political IT IS FACT, PLAN AND SIMPLE FACT. And what is WIN this war, What is the goal What is the prize? NO ONE has ever SAID what WIN means in this war. We are not fighting on a "front" like WWII and WWI, which both were honorable wars and nessary. THis war was not justified and not nessary, if we wanted Sadam out so bad I am sure a covert op could have been just as effective, took care of LIbia did it not? And we have let the main player OSAMA BIN LADEN, A SAUDIE, slip away. As our fearless leader did not want to upset ole Bin's family, as they are a very owerful and RICH family in SAUDIE ARABI and the Saudies are our "FRIENDS" so go ahead and ELECT MCain,as we have to win this war, no matter what the cost on MONEY, TAX PAYERS MONEY, and IN LIVES OF YOUR CHILDREN, HUSBANDS, FATHERS,DAUGHTERS, MOTHERS,BROTHERS & SISTERS. THese brave men and women have done a great job and deserve better than this and I respect them all. And I salute all that have ever served our Nation. Another thing Bush has destroyed our constituion already, ie, WIRE TAPS, GITMO,War without PROVICATION, to name a few. And another thing if I make 250 k a year I would gladley pay 3% more in taxes, but also I can write stuff off and not lose much so NO BIG DEAL. IT IS ONLY 3%. But is is funny the one's crying the most about this are the one's who do not and never will make 250 k a year. Enough of this rant, You vote I vote, my the BEST one win, and no matter who wins I will HONOR them even though I do not agree with them, I still honor Bush as our Pres,but do not respect him, as that is what AMERICANS DO, I am not either DEM or Repub I AM AN AMERICAN, who just wants OUR country BACK.

Bobby,
I'm not willing to forgive the bozo's who pushed subprime mortgages through. This is another HUGE reason that the economy has fallen. If there was any justice wouldn't you think the men who had any hand in this debacle would be fired? Alot of them are Dems and if there are any GOP members send them home as well.
Instead they are the ones masterminding the bailout package that hasn't worked...hmmmm seems to me that both parties had a HUGE hand in this economic breakdown.
Barry ain't the answer he is just the next big dufus that will preach to us as his party tells him too. Send them all home and start over.

You sound like a Dem to me Bobby, but how you view yourself is your business.

The war is not what put sand in the gears of our economy, the collapse was initiated by the actions of the Democratic party. The Republicans made only weak effort to check those practices for fear of being labeled racists. Now both parties are guilty of stealing hundreds of billions of our money to pay for their pandering and ineptitude.

How anyone could vote for a candidate promising a larger federal government is absolutely beyond my comprehension. Long as people continue to vote for more government and socialism, we aren't ever getting our country back.

So you feel we should've just left Iraq alone? Don't you figger it would've been a matter of time till the next attack on our country if we hadn't have done something? So Iraq was wrong Bobby, exactly what should we have done? Every day I hear people bashing President Bush about Iraq, but I never hear them providing any alternative answers. Here's your chance.

Our Mission in Afghanastan was the War on Terror. The war on Iraq is a different matter all together, only distracting us from our intial cause. Our current administration did a great job at blurring the lines between the two, and continues to do so.

You cannont blame our current situation on the democrats, there is plenty of blame to go both ways, but I also don't see how you can deny that the costs of war are not having a major impact on our economy. It may not be the root cause of our recession, but it has helped an economic lull snowball into a full blown and worsening recession.