Clunker Math

How about some MORE math:

THE amount of carbon savings from the approximate 1 million cars sold under cash for clunkers is less than 1 /Thousandth of a PERCENT.

There are about 600 MILLION vehicles in the world.......about 230 MILLION in the US.

[url]http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/...Stasenko.shtml[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng..._United_States[/url]

Transportation makes up about 14% of TOTAL greenhouse gas emissions worldwide....I think that is HIGH........but hey......what do I know.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas[/url]

14% / 600,000,000 = 2.333333 e - 10

So each vehicle makes up about .00000000023 Percent of the Emissions....

Way to GO Obama.....you effectively WASTED a few BILLION dollars, did NOTHING for the economy, and ZERO for Greenhouse Gas Emissions......

Morons are running our country.........YES.........MORONS.

The MORONS flying around the country to town hall meetings have generated more greenhouse gas than all the savings for 10 YEARS from the cash for clunkers program.

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;383699]Now THAT is a FUNNY JOKE.........While we ARE dependent on foreign OIL, it is an artificial dependence....THE USGS found BILLIONS of barrels of proven reserves from those leases that were CANCELLED by Obama. IMAGINE THAT.

[URL]http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911[/URL]

You left wing LIBS always talk about the NUTS in washington being in the pockets of the big oil. How about Obama being in the pockets of the greenies.

Had we started DRILLING those BILLIONS of barrels of PROVEN RESERVES, the cost of gas would drop about 1 buck. IMAGINE THAT.

Well the REASON the drilling has not started is because DRILLING would give us supplies for 40 years....and the GREEN push for vehicles goes out the door.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the LINK this stuff below came from so, I'm quoting it inline......it is long.....Sorry.

[I]The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April ('08) that only[/I]
[I]scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a[/I]
[I]revised report (hadn't been updated since '95) on how much oil was in this[/I]
[I]area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota ; western South Dakota ; and extreme[/I]
[I]eastern Montana ..... check THIS out:[/I]

[I]The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay[/I]
[I], and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil[/I]
[I]The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion[/I]
[I]barrels.. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we[/I]
[I]re looki ng at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.[/I]

[I]'When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their[/I]
[I]jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.' says Terry Johnson, the Montana[/I]
[I]Legislature's financial analyst.[/I]

[I]'This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in[/I]
[I]the past 56 years.' reports, The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation[/I]
[I]known as the Williston Basin , but is more commonly referred to as the[/I]
[I]Bakken.' And it stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and[/I]
[I]into Canada . For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead[/I]
[I]end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells[/I]
[I]decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the[/I]
[I]Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500 billion[/I]
[I]barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels[/I]
[I]will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL![/I]
[I]That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight[/I]


[I]2. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should -[/I]
[I]because it's from TWO YEARS AGO![/I]

[I]U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World![/I]
[I]Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006[/I]


[I]Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the[/I]
[I]largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION[/I]
[I]barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three[/I]
[I]and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this[/I]
[I]motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?[/I]

[I]They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than[/I]
[I]all the other proven reserves on earth.. Here are the official estimates:[/I]

[I]- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia[/I]
[I]- 18-times as much oil as Iraq[/I]
[I]- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait[/I]
[I]- 22-times as much oil as Iran[/I]
[I]- 500 - times as much oil as Yemen[/I]
[I]- and it's all right here in the Western United States .[/I]

[I]HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the[/I]
[I]environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become[/I]
[I]independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people[/I]
[I]dictate our lives and our economy....WHY?[/I]

[I]James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this[/I]
[I]very comp act area than the entire Middle East -[B]more than 2 TRILLION barrels[/B][/I]
[I]untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the[/I]
[I]world today, reports The Denver Post.[/I]

[I]Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again![/I]
[I]It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just[/I]
[I]might be funding the environmentalists?[/I]
[I]Got your attention/ire up yet? Hope so! Now, while you're thinking about[/I]
[I]it .... and hopefully P.O'd, do this:[/I]


[I]Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent[/I]
[I]this to every one in your address book.[/I]
[I]By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!![/I]
[I]GOOGLE it or follow this link. It will blow your mind.[/I]

[I][URL]http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911[/URL][/I]
[I]gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911[/I]

[I][URL]http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2008/3021/pdf/FS08-3021_508.pdf[/URL][/I]
[/QUOTE]

I am assuming your not calling me a left wing lib , as you know not my status. I just made a comment , it may be an artificial dependancy , but we still buy it overseas...

We need to stop labeling the people that we are debating on this board. I agree with you post but name calling just causes hostility and then the issue gets escalated out of control and posts get deleted and threads get locked. I know it's hard not to label someone because of their views but let's try a little harder.

[QUOTE=CMorg;383703]I am assuming your not calling me a left wing lib , as you know not my status. I just made a comment , it may be an artificial dependancy , but we still buy it overseas...[/QUOTE]

I implied you're a LIB.....sorry.....I don't know your politics.

AND for the record the single LARGEST supplier of foreign oil to the United States is our friends to the North.........Canada.

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;383708]I implied you're a LIB.....sorry.....I don't know your politics.

AND for the record the single LARGEST supplier of foreign oil to the United States is our friends to the North.........Canada.

Later,

Geo[/QUOTE]

I always wonered this. Is "Crude oil", the kind that does not say "Excuse me" when it makes gas?

I think some of the reason for not drilling MIGHT be strategic. Wait for the Middle East to run out of oil, then the U.S. can control a large part of the market in the future.

[QUOTE=the_donger;383724]I think some of the reason for not drilling MIGHT be strategic. Wait for the Middle East to run out of oil, then the U.S. can control a large part of the market in the future.[/QUOTE]

I have often thought the same thing but man how long would that take for us to be the one with oil?

Seems that at the rate we are going our country will be owned by China and all our resources will be theirs as well and at that point we will be paying even more for our own oil!

[QUOTE=HURRICANEBOB;383721]I always wonered this. Is "Crude oil", the kind that does not say "Excuse me" when it makes gas?[/QUOTE]

Funny stuff! ;)

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;383699]Now THAT is a FUNNY JOKE.........While we ARE dependent on foreign OIL, it is an artificial dependence....THE USGS found BILLIONS of barrels of proven reserves from those leases that were CANCELLED by Obama. IMAGINE THAT.

[URL]http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911[/URL]

You left wing LIBS always talk about the NUTS in washington being in the pockets of the big oil. How about Obama being in the pockets of the greenies.

Had we started DRILLING those BILLIONS of barrels of PROVEN RESERVES, the cost of gas would drop about 1 buck. IMAGINE THAT.

Well the REASON the drilling has not started is because DRILLING would give us supplies for 40 years....and the GREEN push for vehicles goes out the door.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the LINK this stuff below came from so, I'm quoting it inline......it is long.....Sorry.

[I]The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April ('08) that only
scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a
revised report (hadn't been updated since '95) on how much oil was in this
area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota ; western South Dakota ; and extreme
eastern Montana ..... check THIS out:

The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay
, and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil
The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion
barrels.. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we
re looki ng at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion.

'When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their
jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.' says Terry Johnson, the Montana
Legislature's financial analyst.

'This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in
the past 56 years.' reports, The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation
known as the Williston Basin , but is more commonly referred to as the
Bakken.' And it stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and
into Canada . For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead
end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells
decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the
Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500 billion
barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels
will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!
That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight


2. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should -
because it's from TWO YEARS AGO!

U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World!
Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006


Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the
largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION
barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three
and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this
motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than
all the other proven reserves on earth.. Here are the official estimates:

- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
- 18-times as much oil as Iraq
- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait
- 22-times as much oil as Iran
- 500 - times as much oil as Yemen
- and it's all right here in the Western United States .

HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the
environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become
independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people
dictate our lives and our economy....WHY?

James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this
very comp act area than the entire Middle East -[B]more than 2 TRILLION barrels[/B]
untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the
world today, reports The Denver Post.

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again!
It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just
might be funding the environmentalists?
Got your attention/ire up yet? Hope so! Now, while you're thinking about
it .... and hopefully P.O'd, do this:


Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent
this to every one in your address book.
By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!
GOOGLE it or follow this link. It will blow your mind.

[URL]http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911[/URL]
gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

[URL]http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2008/3021/pdf/FS08-3021_508.pdf[/URL]
[/I][/QUOTE]
George, I'm surprised at you, quoting an internet chain letter as factual. Didn't the fact that the author encourages people to "send this to everyone in your address book" tip you off that its contents were most likely BS? And you apparently didn't even visit the link YOU posted. Here is what the article above says: "[I]The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay
, and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil
The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at [B]503 billion[/B]
barrels.."

[/I]And then, the very first two lines of the actual USGS report ([URL]http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911[/URL]) say:
"Reston, VA - North Dakota and Montana have an estimated [B]3.0 to 4.3 billion[/B] barrels of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in an area known as the Bakken Formation. A U.S. Geological Survey assessment, released April 10, shows a 25-fold increase in the amount of oil that can be recovered compared to the agency's 1995 estimate of 151 million barrels of oil.

We import about 10 million barrels of oil a day. So at the very most, this represents just over one year's supply. That's nice, but not enough to have a long-lasting effect on our dependence on foreign oil. And it's about 1/100th of what the author of the chain letter claims.

I also find it interesting that there seem to be two versions of this chain letter floating around. There's the version you got, that says:
"[I]Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again!
It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just
might be funding the environmentalists?
Got your attention/ire up yet? Hope so! Now, while you're thinking about
it .... and hopefully P.O'd, do this:


Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent
this to every one in your address book.
By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!
GOOGLE it or follow this link. It will blow your mind."

[/I]And another one that ends with:
"[I]Don't think 'Big Oil' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again!
It's all about the competitive marketplace, and if they can extract it (here) for less, they can afford to sell it for less - and if they DON"T, others will. It will come down - it has to.

Got your attention fired up yet? Hope so! Now, while you're thinking about
it .... and hopefully P.O'd, do this:

3. Take 5-10 minutes and compose an email, fax, or good old-fashioned letter to our elected officials in Washington ... and their respected leaders. We'll start with them, and here's how you can send them your email/fax, DEMANDING the immediate Legislation/an Energy PLAN that calls for tapping into these (OUR OWN!) Reserves, as well as allowing for the offshore drilling for OUR oil, in OUR offshore waters and Inter-continental shelf ... not to mention Alaska. Technology ain't what it used to people (ever had arthroscopic surger?). They can surgically extract OUR oil, and get us on our way to at least some measure of Energy independence."[/I]

I guess it is a chain letter......I did pull this from a link that was sent to me, but it must have been posted there from someone from a chain letter.

Bottom Line.....we will NEVER know how much oil is available here because the OBAMUNISTS will not let us search.

Using technology that is 13 years old (1995) to search is NOT the same as using technology today. Bottom line. THE person who WROTE the report thinks the potential for 2 TRILLION barrels is there.....WHY we're not exploring it is BEYOND belief.

Brazil recently found a HUGE reserve:

[url]http://www.upi.com/Energy_Resources/2009/09/10/Brazil-reports-huge-deepwater-oil-field-output-to-start-by-2012/UPI-87871252618956/[/url]

Huge RESERVES have been found off the coast of CUBA:

[url]http://walrus.wr.usgs.gov/infobank/programs/html/factsheets/pdfs/2005_3009.pdf[/url]

I apologize for not having the details EXACTLY right though :) :) .

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=Chubminnow;383577][QUOTE=HURRICANEBOB;383546]

Common sense tells us this Clunker thing was a waste of money to begin...I'm glad someone finally did the math though.

HurricaneBob - Not sure where you're going with your post about vehicles getting worse mileage as they get older, transmissions wearing out, etc...I'm the proud owner of two 4-wheel drive Chevrolet gas hawgs...both of which are ten years old or older. I expect things to go wrong...but that's why they make replacement parts...It's been my experience that it's always cheaper to keep her (accept for in the case of my ex-wife, she HAD TO GO!). I guess for me it's a love between a man and his trucks, or a bonding or something, lol...Kind of like my old dog, all he does is lays around, but I ain't gettin' rid of him.[/QUOTE]


C-Minner: Hey, I wasn't taking a shot at older cars, just most folks aren't like you and me and maintain them. Agred, you keep an oldie up to snuff, and its gets good mileage. Seems to me most of the old Chevy 283's or 327's in top tune got in the 25 mph neighborhood. It's just that most folks out there don't take the same kind of extraordinary care of a ride that you and me do. That's were I was going. Ya know, the 80's model Buick Regal ya see, for example, running down the road blowing blue smoke kinda deal. AGain, not intended shot at folks that own oldies, note was to highlight that older cars will tend to get worse gas mileage do to age and state of maintenance, and getting them off the road does hlep fuel economy.

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;383701]How about some MORE math:

THE amount of carbon savings from the approximate 1 million cars sold under cash for clunkers is less than 1 /Thousandth of a PERCENT.

There are about 600 MILLION vehicles in the world.......about 230 MILLION in the US.

[url]http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/...Stasenko.shtml[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng..._United_States[/url]

Transportation makes up about 14% of TOTAL greenhouse gas emissions worldwide....I think that is HIGH........but hey......what do I know.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas[/url]

14% / 600,000,000 = 2.333333 e - 10

So each vehicle makes up about .00000000023 Percent of the Emissions....

Way to GO Obama.....you effectively WASTED a few BILLION dollars, did NOTHING for the economy, and ZERO for Greenhouse Gas Emissions......

Morons are running our country.........YES.........MORONS.

The MORONS flying around the country to town hall meetings have generated more greenhouse gas than all the savings for 10 YEARS from the cash for clunkers program.[/QUOTE]

Hey, will you do my taxes this year? The numbers will be smaller, but no less confusing or amusing. :)