lake cumberland dead fish floating everywhere

Ky Trophy, Randall, awesome post and dead on the money in my opinion. I have been preaching some stiffer Regs on the bass especially smallmouth for several years now. I usually get called out and told I'm way off base, it's good to see a well known guide ''IN THE KNOW'', feel like something might need to be done as well.

Also I have read many many articles pertaining to stripers and their eating habits. According to everything published by Biologists, their main diet consists off of baitfish. I have also had three different guides on Cumberland who fish for these fish everyday and clean them almost every day tell me they only see shad in their bellies. A study conducted on Sante Cooper by fishery biologist one year involves capture and harvest of alot of stripers. They also got the public involved and local fisherman and discovered it was quite rare to find bass in the bellies of stripers.

Do some research online it's out there and see that most states agree that the diet of a striper is 90% plus baitfish and not other gamefish.

You do realize that Stripers naturally live in both fresh and salt water, right? You also realize that there is an over abundance of bait in Cumberland so the, "competition" is predators/bait not predator/predator? You do know that if the bait population gets out of control it will actually hurt bass populations?

When exactly did bass fishing suffer on Cumberland? LM populations have declined due to dwindling habitat as the lake has matured and will probably take off for a short while once the lake returns to normal, but that has everything to do with habitat and zero to do with Striper populations. From what I've seen from SM, It's never been better for those that have adjusted. *Hint* More of the quality SM have stayed deeper since the lake level doesn't change as much. There is a reason stipers hunt bait schools in schools over open water as much as possible. It's because they can't maneuverer as well as bass can in tight quarters. With that, why would a striper be stupid enough to hunt a fish in tight quarters that has the major advantage? The answer: They don't. A striper is doing you a big favor when it eats a bass it can actually catch by removing weaker fish. There is a very good reason stripers are stocked and it has very little to do with fishermen, other than the fact fishermen chase them. It has to do with a balance; a balance you and a few other un-knowledgeable people wish to see upset.

On another note, I don't fish for carp or catfish or muskie or even bass or walleye that often. But I have an utmost respect and admiration for those species and my fellow fishermen that do hunt them. The LAST thing I would ever do is wish harm to those fisheries or wish a plight on those that hunt them. To do so. in my mind, would show an overwhelming ignorance and selfishness.

I love this country and the fact that we have freedom of speech but sometimes it's better to exercise that other right, which is in the fifth amendment.

[QUOTE=Duayne;426351]You do realize that Stripers naturally live in both fresh and salt water, right? You also realize that there is an over abundance of bait in Cumberland so the, "competition" is predators/bait not predator/predator? You do know that if the bait population gets out of control it will actually hurt bass populations?

When exactly did bass fishing suffer on Cumberland? LM populations have declined due to dwindling habitat as the lake has matured and will probably take off for a short while once the lake returns to normal, but that has everything to do with habitat and zero to do with Striper populations. From what I've seen from SM, It's never been better for those that have adjusted. *Hint* More of the quality SM have stayed deeper since the lake level doesn't change as much. There is a reason stipers hunt bait schools in schools over open water as much as possible. It's because they can't maneuverer as well as bass can in tight quarters. With that, why would a striper be stupid enough to hunt a fish in tight quarters that has the major advantage? The answer: They don't. A striper is doing you a big favor when it eats a bass it can actually catch by removing weaker fish. There is a very good reason stripers are stocked and it has very little to do with fishermen, other than the fact fishermen chase them. It has to do with a balance; a balance you and a few other un-knowledgeable people wish to see upset.

On another note, I don't fish for carp or catfish or muskie or even bass or walleye that often. But I have an utmost respect and admiration for those species and my fellow fishermen that do hunt them. The LAST thing I would ever do is wish harm to those fisheries or wish a plight on those that hunt them. To do so. in my mind, would show an overwhelming ignorance and selfishness.

I love this country and the fact that we have freedom of speech but sometimes it's better to exercise that other right, which is in the fifth amendment.[/QUOTE]

You're right I was wrong about the Lab made comment. I know they are Saltwater native...however, they are not native to KY waters, they were introduced for sportfishing purposes. and You claim that predator/predator "competition" doesn't exists. or in other words Stripers eating baby bass doesn't exist you're wrong! yes I know that an over abundance of shad isn't good for bass populations, My Point is that Stripers aren't native to KY and hence don't belong in it's waters, it's technically an exotic species. and with their absence in Cumberland even temporarly it WILL help the bass populations. there's no doubt about it. You can call me ignorant or stupid or unsportsman, or unknowledgable. but what balance does a striper bring to a habitat that it doesn't belong to and isn't native to? seems to me an introduction of a non-native population of fish to an environment would be anything but Balanced...which is maybe why the stripers are dying off in Cumberland and the other native fish are predominantly unaffected.

Don't remember who said this-"Ut oro per stultus,make vos stultus quoque."But sometimes it makes sense on this board.


Hint on translation--Very ancient language

[QUOTE=MagikSmallie;426341]You know maybe these striper just aren't supposed to be in our lakes. They aren't natural, and I for one will be glad to see them go on Cumberland, even if its just temporary. I know alot of you like them, I know there are guides that make a livin with them, and I admit they are fun to catch, but really they shouldn't be in KY waters, they're a lab made fish. They out compete bass for food resources and they feed directly on small bass as well. I for one am glad, maybe the bass fishing will pick up a cumberland since no more stocking will be done with the stripers. I know my stance isn't popular, but I don't care, it will be nice to see the bass pick up at cumberland. which with the absence of stripers you can bet the bass will pick up![/QUOTE]

WOW........

So you want a repeat of what happened with the great lakes, eh......

[url]http://ezinearticles.com/?How-the-Alewife-and-West-Coast-Salmon-Transformed-the-Great-Lakes&id=4639545[/url]

I hope you get really good at alewife fishing, because without the stripers, that is ALL you will catch.......

Later,

Geo

Don't remember who said this-"Ut oro per stultus,make vos stultus quoque."But sometimes it makes sense on this board.


Hint on translation--Very ancient language

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;426362]WOW........

So you want a repeat of what happened with the great lakes, eh......

[url]http://ezinearticles.com/?How-the-Alewife-and-West-Coast-Salmon-Transformed-the-Great-Lakes&id=4639545[/url]

I hope you get really good at alewife fishing, because without the stripers, that is ALL you will catch.......

Later,

Geo[/QUOTE]

So if this is the case, then how come on Dale Hollow, a lake that isn't stocked with stripers and has alewifes..."alewife's aren't all you catch there?"

[QUOTE=MagikSmallie;426357]You're right I was wrong about the Lab made comment. I know they are Saltwater native...however, they are not native to KY waters, they were introduced for sportfishing purposes. and You claim that predator/predator "competition" doesn't exists. or in other words Stripers eating baby bass doesn't exist you're wrong! yes I know that an over abundance of shad isn't good for bass populations, My Point is that Stripers aren't native to KY and hence don't belong in it's waters, it's technically an exotic species. and with their absence in Cumberland even temporarly it WILL help the bass populations. there's no doubt about it. You can call me ignorant or stupid or unsportsman, or unknowledgable. but what balance does a striper bring to a habitat that it doesn't belong to and isn't native to? seems to me an introduction of a non-native population of fish to an environment would be anything but Balanced...which is maybe why the stripers are dying off in Cumberland and the other native fish are predominantly unaffected.[/QUOTE]

So a river with a MANMADE DAM on is natural??? Once the Cumberland River was dammed up it changed the whole ecosystem. The balance the striper brings to the habitat is that they feed heavily on the shad and alewifes (also not native to KY) that spend most of the year out of reach of bass. From what I have seen on Cumberland, there is no shortage of bait in the lake. If there was, your position that stripers and bass are competing might have a little credibility. I have bass fished for 30+ years, striper fished for the last 15 of those years. I have no problems with both species existing in the same body of water. If the bass fishing picks up, it will be due to stable water during the spawn and and increase in habitat (trees and shrubs) that provide cover for the fry. It will be 5+ years after the dam issues are dealt with before you see the benifits of that.


Oh, Walleye are a native species in the Cumberland River. I seem to remember problems with them dying off last year too. By your comments, you are also suggesting that trout be removed from Laural Lake and the Cumberland River too? I mean, those are exotic species, right?

Can you show me some actual data that indicates stripers are eating baby bass? Read over Duayne's comments on striper feeding and you'll see why this is not the case. Hint, those baby bass hang in real shallow water around structure. Places where stripers do not go. And why should they? They have plenty of forage (alewifes, gizzard shad, threadfin shad) out over open water that are a much better target for them, and also lack the dorsal spines that the bass have.

Plenty of good points made by Duayne and KYtrophyHunter that are worth reading on this and other issues related to stripers and other fish in Cumberland.

Andrew

hey apb
even though you are right,you will never convince some bass fisherman the demize of the stripers isn't what helped the bass.They will be fixed on that,not the fact there will be thousands of acres of new willows,grass and trees for fry to hide and survive in.
from what i have seen in most lakes,bass are harder on themselves,they obliterate their own fry.

Bass numbers are down in the lake, the Department acknowledges this as I have contacted them. Shock surveys and other methods of recent research over the last three to five years have shown a decline in numbers of largemouth and smallmouth. Numbers are still good or about where they were on Spotted bass however the size of those fish have suffered some. Several years back Cumberland in the yearly fishing forecast booklets would always be rated as good to excellent. They are considering next year at only rating it at fair??

Now all that said, is the lake still full of good fish, sure it is. Also the numbers being down some are the direct result in bad year class spawns due to excessive lake fluctuation and especially bad timing of the up's and down's as well. The stripers have nothing to do with it, ask a fishery biologist and see if he doesn't agree. I would love to see a five year trial slot on Cumberland on smallmouth. If it doesn't work than it doesn't work, but it would I would bet the bank. The largeheads will come back in good numbers when the lake is filled back up, no doubt. I have been catching more largeheads on the west end of the lake the last few years than ver before, including some pretty good ones to, 3 to 4lbers' that look very healthy.

What would be the down side of trying a slot on smallmouth??? Also before you start slinging mud at me, they siad the numbers were down some, but they did not feel it was bad yet and certainly not even close to needing suplimental stocking, I'm not sure if I agree with this, but this is what I was told.

[QUOTE=MagikSmallie;426370]So if this is the case, then how come on Dale Hollow, a lake that isn't stocked with stripers and has alewifes..."alewife's aren't all you catch there?"[/QUOTE]

When was the LAST time a real trophy of ANY type was caught from Dale.

The alewife issue is as serious there as it is in Cumberland. Alewives are outcompeting native forage like threadfin shad. Once the Alewife get to a mature size, only REALLY BIG smallies can take them, or REALLY BIG LM Bass.

I think Dale still has a decent population of serious alewife eaters.........Muskie, some Lake Trout, BIG rainbows, Walleye......but I suspect the days of 8lb+ smallies from Dale are over.......

Later,

Geo

If anyone is interested, more reading on the Striper/Bass discussions;
[URL]http://www.arkansasstripers.com/striped-bass-predation-on-bass-crappie.htm[/URL]