Gun Control Debate in wake of AZ shooting

[QUOTE=DJD;437979]Don you know as americans we have short memories so the hot topic is whats in the news at the time. Thats just how it is but along that line of thinking I wish we (Congress) would do just what you said. How long and how many politicians have said illegal immigration was gonna be controlled? Alternative energy addresed? Gubment spending controlled and on and on....

I can say your comment of feeling the need to "pack heat" is how alot of communities are already. I don't live in that area and few on here do but it does exist so that ship has already sailed brother.

What proposal are you talking about? You mean this thread?:confused: Did I miss something??[/QUOTE]

There is a bill proposed in the current KY legislative session to drop the permit and tranning requirements to carry concealed firearm. No restictions on concealed weapons at all. I have a holster and when I carry mine I keep it in plain view. In my truck I place it on the dash where it is visable. I remember one time I got pulled over for a taillight and the cop complimented me for placing my gun in clear view (also just gave a warring on the taillight). Anyway I don't see how law enforcement will like this very much, I think it will make thier job more dangerous.

Hm...........I guess someone said something nasty..........

Nice to know some of us can have decent dialog yet some simply cannot.

Later,

Geo

I was just wondering if anyone remembers reading that a news reporter (or even most officers) has bothered to ask if a shooter had a concealed weapon permit. That is the one question that doesn't seem to be significant when a homicide/murder is being reported.

I do have a permit and had to have extensive training before my application would even be considered; and, yes, it is very expensive. I do pack heat because I travel and live alone most of the time. It isn't the people in my neighborhood that are the problem, they are wonderful people; it's the passersby and people who don't know me who pull up into my yard (in AL) and park to take a shot at the deer. About 6 wks ago I went to dinner with a family member, when I came home I found 5 bullet holes in the wall of my house, beside a window, and blood draining from one of the holes. I'm assuming the blood was from a deer that was in the yard.

A couple of nights later, just past midnight, a truck pulled up to the corner of the yard. A man got out with a shotgun. I walked out on the porch, in the dark where he couldn't see me, and yelled to him, "Do you want that deer bad enough for me to empty this .357 Magnum into the side of your truck? If you do, go ahead and fire." He jumped back into his truck and sped away. Both incidents were reported to law enforcement officers.

The weekend before those incidents, I joined 3 other girls for a "girls day out" to go shopping and to dinner in Spanish Fort, AL. I left late going back home and it was on a Saturday night. On the way I had to stop at a 4-way stop. Just as I started to pull away a black SUV sped through the intersection going to my right and I heard gunfire and something hit my vehicle in the area of the rear window. I sped away and called 911 and told them what had happened and gave a description of both vehicles. I told them that I was traveling 85 mph and asked them to cover me until I got to the next town, where it was well lit, and I would stop for them. Six officers met me and the first words out of his mouth as I handed him my driver license was, "somebody shot the window out of my wife's car at that same intersection. We have been having this problem, at the same intersection, for over 3 years and you are the first person to give us a description of their vehicle." I showed him my Concealed Weapon Permit from another state and it was honored, and the officer told me that his wife now has one and carries a weapon everywhere she goes.

I don't carry a concealed weapon to shoot other people, I carry it to protect ME.

Hindsight is 20/20. Sure, it looks now like this guy should have been prevented from getting the gun, but I don't see how you could devise and implement a system that would pick up somebody like him, yet not be overly burdensome on people wanting to legally buy and sell guns.

You guys obviously know a lot about guns and gun safety. And of course you're right, no reasonable person is going to carry around a pistol under their coat if they don't know how to use it. I'm with Geo on that, I'd never consider do it without taking some classes first. But while reading this thread I keep thinking back to 2008, when the Supreme Court struck down Washington DC's ban on handgun ownership as unconstitutional. Remember that? They ruled that in the Second Amendment, where it says, "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed," the words "the people" means you and I, not "The People" as in the United States of America, ending a decades-old debate on the subject. So now, the problem as I see it is that while no reasonable person would carry a concealed firearm without proper instruction, unfortunately, that instruction costs money, and if you start making it a legal requirement to obtain that instruction, then you're changing a Constitutionally guaranteed right into a privilege. It's unconstitutional for the same reason that requiring someone to get a permit to vote was ruled unconstitutional; it discriminates against those who can't afford to do so.

Dang you live in a rough area bug! Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's nice but I have never had that kind of action in all the towns and cities I grew up in or live in now.
I would carry a pistol and pack a shotgun in the truck! Be safe.:)

Resposible gun enthuziast need to be careful how this issue is approached.

The Constitution is a changing document. They repealed proabition, there has been recent talk of repealing the 18th amendment that gives citizenship.

Any amendment or the constitution itself can be changed or amended.

This is why I support reasonable gun control laws and regulations. Last thing we need is irresponsible people doing stupid things with guns that jeprodize the rights of everyone.

Times are a changing. Most of us don't rely on game for food now, the Indians do not seam to be any threat anymore. So be responsible and support reasonable laws and regulations and oppose burdensome laws that have no clear benifit.

[QUOTE=DJD;438067]Dang you live in a rough area bug! Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's nice but I have never had that kind of action in all the towns and cities I grew up in or live in now.
I would carry a pistol and pack a shotgun in the truck! Be safe.:)[/QUOTE]

No, I don't live in a town, city, or rough area; it's 10 miles from the nearest town. I was coming back from Spanish Fort which is over 100 miles from my home and the 4-way stop was not anywhere near my house when my car was shot and the back window was grazed. I happen to have an abundance of deer that have chosen to feed around in my yard and drink from the pond which is about 200 feet from my back door. Redneck night hunters ride the roads across 2 counties looking for deer to shoot. I am positive the person I yelled at was from MS because I saw his license plate and my house is 29 miles from the state line. I have talked to a Wildlife Officer about it and he regularly checks around the house but he has other areas to patrol and there is only so much he can do. The hunters try to make sure no one is home when they shoot because they are afraid of getting arrested. That night my car was parked behind the house when that guy got out of his truck.

I have just had about 40 acres of timber clear cut (before hurricane season begins) and a ranger told me that it was just an open invitation for more deer to come in. I already have a contract to have all that section replanted in longleaf pine seedlings later this month or no later than the middle of February. It has been cleaned up with no tree tops and bushes left on the ground and is very pretty as it is but I'm having it replanted and it will be sprayed in May to kill all the undergrowth that may come up. I'm just hoping the Ranger was wrong about more deer coming in.

The second ammendment guarantees you the right to own a firearm. It does not give you the right to carry concealed. The right to carry concealed is indeed a priveledge and not a right. This is again why I say mandatory training requirements for concealed carry permit holders have no bearing on the constitutional right to bear arms.

Yes the constitution is a changing document. But only for things to be added. Things that have been added, have been repealed in the past, but the original 10 ammendments... the bill of rights... and the body of the original document itself are unchanging and absolute. If it were not that way then the founding fathers may have well not written it at all.\


(in case you havent noticed i am a believer in strict interpretation of the words as they were written. basically I am a libertarian.)

Im planning on taking the class with my step-son..father-in-law..wife...and one of my daughters, next month. I have a feeling that gun laws are going to take a big hit...again. And joining the NRA is a great idea...thought of that this morning, on the way to work. I've heard in the news this morning that law makers might be limiting "guns" that are "not for hunting"...and clips that are used only for "killing mass people"?? I've heard all this before...but...you never know. Im glad I vote..and keeping our gun laws as is, is a big deal for us all...

I'm sorry, but any restriction is just that a restriction. All of us in kentucky can carry a weapon in plain sight. In my opinion, thats the best way. Limiting clips is up to the individual.If you need more than two, you aint doing something right.

[QUOTE=walkeraviator;438085]The second ammendment guarantees you the right to own a firearm. It does not give you the right to carry concealed. The right to carry concealed is indeed a priveledge and not a right. This is again why I say mandatory training requirements for concealed carry permit holders have no bearing on the constitutional right to bear arms.

Yes the constitution is a changing document. But only for things to be added. Things that have been added, have been repealed in the past, but the original 10 ammendments... the bill of rights... and the body of the original document itself are unchanging and absolute. If it were not that way then the founding fathers may have well not written it at all.\


(in case you havent noticed i am a believer in strict interpretation of the words as they were written. basically I am a libertarian.)[/QUOTE]

Walker, yes the 2nd amendment is part of the bill of rights, however, it is subject to amendment just as the 18th amendment was changed by the 21st amendment.

The bill of rights (first 10 amendments to the constitution) were presented with the constitution when ratified. There was debate then as to weather the bill of rights should actually be part of the constitution, however, it was decided to include the bill of rights as amendments and not part of the body of the constitution. The bill of rights secures much of our basic liberties, but it is possible to amend them. I still think we would serve ourselves well by supporting gun control legislation that is not burdensome yet has clear benifit. Examples alreday in place are mental compidence, felony conviction and even gun registration laws in some states. (although I think some of these ARE burdonsome).

Anyway I think reasonable gun control is needed. Otherwise we may all find ourselves in a local arms race. If felons are allowed to have guns (not all of their basic civil rights are forfited with a felony conviction so this is possible without gun legislation) and criminals have automatic weapons, explosives, etc. it would quickly get out of control.

[QUOTE=walkeraviator;438085]The second ammendment guarantees you the right to own a firearm. It does not give you the right to carry concealed. The right to carry concealed is indeed a priveledge and not a right. This is again why I say mandatory training requirements for concealed carry permit holders have no bearing on the constitutional right to bear arms.

Yes the constitution is a changing document. But only for things to be added. Things that have been added, have been repealed in the past, but the original 10 ammendments... the bill of rights... and the body of the original document itself are unchanging and absolute. If it were not that way then the founding fathers may have well not written it at all.\


(in case you havent noticed i am a believer in strict interpretation of the words as they were written. basically I am a libertarian.)[/QUOTE]
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

If you believe in a strict interpretation of the words, then you must understand that the Second Amendment guarantees you the right to "keep and bear arms," and nowhere in it does it say that those arms have to be in plain sight. In fact, it doesn't just say that you have that right, it goes so far as to say that that right "shall not be infringed," meaning no if's, and, or but's. So the statement, "You're allowed to carry a weapon, BUT you have to carry it in plain sight" seems to me to be at odds with a strict interpretation of the wording of the Second Amendment.

Don't get me wrong, I've always believed in reasonable gun control, and have been labeled a bleeding-heart liberal for it before, even though I've never favored taking guns away from law-abiding citizens. So I'm really in a way playing devil's advocate here.