Daggone it!!! Obamy said he was gonna look into this and now gas is over $4 per gallon!!! I wish he would quit looking into crap and mind his own bidness!:p:mad::rolleyes:
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Daggone it!!! Obamy said he was gonna look into this and now gas is over $4 per gallon!!! I wish he would quit looking into crap and mind his own bidness!:p:mad::rolleyes:
[QUOTE=walkeraviator;452942]I dont blame big oil companies. They are in business just like anyone else. To make money. Yes the numbers are huge. Bu the actual profit margin in percentage points is about 7% profit, which is what any business makes. I blame the government. The government makes more in taxes from a gallon of gas than an oil company makes in profits.[/QUOTE]
I think you may need to rethink this. Exxon Profits ^^^^^ 7 billion in 3 month span, Chevron ^^^^^^^ billions in 3 months (quarterly) earnings. Oil goes down-----gas goes up.
Blame Government if you like, but that is not going to fix it.
[QUOTE=kydonky;453008]I think you may need to rethink this. Exxon Profits ^^^^^ 7 billion in 3 month span, Chevron ^^^^^^^ billions in 3 months (quarterly) earnings. Oil goes down-----gas goes up.
Blame Government if you like, but that is not going to fix it.[/QUOTE]
I have a hard time with words so I am going to quote a friend from an aviation forum i frequent...
"You need economics 101, profit margin and total profits are two very different things. You may have noticed oil is a popular product, lots of people buy it and need it.
Profit of 8% or so is constant over any amount, you are just having a little trouble wrapping your mind around the size of the business.
Once you can do without oil, you won't have to worry about how much people sell it for, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.
In fact the government takes about 42 cents on every gallon of gas sold and the typical oil company makes about seven cents. Do the math on that." - Jungle
This guy knows his sh*t... I will find the links to all the information that backs this stuff... I was actually in agreement with don that oil companies were to blame til this guy pointed me in the right direction and i did some research... Now I understand how teh government getting involved is just bad.
[QUOTE=kydonky;453008]I think you may need to rethink this. Exxon Profits ^^^^^ 7 billion in 3 month span, Chevron ^^^^^^^ billions in 3 months (quarterly) earnings. Oil goes down-----gas goes up.
Blame Government if you like, but that is not going to fix it.[/QUOTE]
As I've read it, Exxon and Chevron STILL is only collecting about a 7% profit on their product, and that number has not changed.
So, I suspect they made a shitload of money due to more CONSUMPTION....
It is funny how folks bitch about a windfall tax on profits, but they simply DON'T REALIZE that any windfall TAX will be passed onto the consumer. If you raise taxes and it costs them 3%, then they will tack 3% onto the cost of the goods.............
Lower DEMAND, lower usage, or increase the supply. I completely believe that we have a HUGE supply of oil that we simply refuse to drill. Hell, brazil recently found 87 BILLION barrels of oil in one field off their coast. 10 years ago, there was NOTHING off their coast. NEW Technology found this and NEW Technology is drilling it.
It is a **** SHAME that our ******** politicians cannot get their head out of their butt and do something for AMERICANS instead of themselves.......
Line them all up and Osama them............
Later,
Geo
[QUOTE=GeoFisher;453042]As I've read it, Exxon and Chevron STILL is only collecting about a 7% profit on their product, and that number has not changed.
So, I suspect they made a shitload of money due to more CONSUMPTION....
It is funny how folks bitch about a windfall tax on profits, but they simply DON'T REALIZE that any windfall TAX will be passed onto the consumer. If you raise taxes and it costs them 3%, then they will tack 3% onto the cost of the goods.............
Lower DEMAND, lower usage, or increase the supply. I completely believe that we have a HUGE supply of oil that we simply refuse to drill. Hell, brazil recently found 87 BILLION barrels of oil in one field off their coast. 10 years ago, there was NOTHING off their coast. NEW Technology found this and NEW Technology is drilling it.
It is a **** SHAME that our ******** politicians cannot get their head out of their butt and do something for AMERICANS instead of themselves.......
Line them all up and Osama them............
Later,
Geo[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way about any tax on profits. The problem lies elsewhere. So go elsewhere to fix it...Politicians are scum in my book and the system breeds more and more of these guys and gals. The system is broke and until the country really wants to take it back we are gonna keep going downhill as a country. The economy cannot work the way the Liberal controlled congress set it up under the first few years of obamy. We are so broke it ain't funny....We need a leader and thats the first step.
[QUOTE=Embrey;452412]doubt youll see any drop...if anything a raise[/QUOTE]
weird...it dropped for a few days, and magically, there it is back at the same price again.
I agree that the Economics 101 debate of Profit Margin vs Profit is a good start...and believe it or not, I'm going to defend Big Oil a little here...
Big Oil is at the same [B]PROFIT MARGIN[/B] as they have always had. I've read figures that the average net profit margin is in the 9.5% ballpark. That is the % made after production costs, transportation, wages, marketing, TAXES, etc. The average Net Profit Margin of S&P 500 Companies is 8.5% ballpark....so while the oil companies are richer by a percentage comparison, it's not exactly by a boatload.
The key is volume. The reason that they keep recording record [B]PROFITS[/B] year over year is because volume continues to skyrocket. They are still making that 9.5% net, but it is on larger and larger sales volume as we consume more and more.
That's the theory at least....though I still have a hard time explaining all of the wild fluctuation at the pump within hours....
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Let's say I make Float-N-Fly jigs, and it costs me .75 per unit by the time I buy jigheads, paint, craft hair, crystal flash, baggies to put them in, my time involved, any marketing expenses for a website, or whatever...
Then I sell them for $1.00 at the bait shop.
I make .25 each, and the government takes .18 of that. So, I'm making .07 per jig net profit....or about 7% profit margin. I sell 100 of them over the weekend and make $7.00 net profit on the deal.
Elwood goes out and catches a 12lb smallie at Dale on them and they become REAL POPULAR. I sell 1000 the next weekend. I report RECORD PROFITS of $70.00 because of volume alone. My profit margin is still the same old 7%....I just put more DOLLARS in the bank because I sold more goods.
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While you can certainly come down on oil companies for having ridiculously paid CEO's, jets and helicopters, excessive lifestyles....you can make the same case for many other industry CEO's. (Remember AIG, Goldman Sachs, etc, etc?) At least oil companies and the oil boom does create more and more jobs each year. I read that they are employing more folks than the year before, every year...and they pay workers a substantially higher wage than in other industries.
Based on current tax rates, I buy in to the theory that the Government takes more dollars to the bank for every gallon of gas sold than Big Oil. If you're comparing what they collect on every gallon, versus the NET PROFIT that Big Oil makes on every gallon, I think the math works. Remember, there are middle-men in there with refineries, distributors, right down to the local gas man.
I think that increased taxes on the Oil Companies is a MISTAKE, plain and simple. They will raise their prices more to cover...so their net profit margin will not change. The government will undoubtedly make MORE profit per gallon. The consumer, as usual, will feel the pain...and eventually it will reach a breaking point (consumer push-back) where folks will not be able to buy gas. Demand and consumption may be reduced at that point, but it will be at the cost of our economy...which will be in shambles.
The logical answer is NOT to expect Americans to ride bikes, drive electric cars, and give up our way of life. If technology can build planes and semi-trucks and pickups and cars that can run on solar or electric power with the same consistency, convenience, and power as gasoline and diesel, I'm all for it....but in the meantime....
DRILL BABY DRILL.
Tap oil here, keep the politicians hands out of increased taxes on oil companies, keep Americans employed here as they find it, drill it, refine it, transport it, and sell it....
The only problem is that say we do that, and we tell OPEC to stick it, and all of the increased supply causes competition, lower prices....we're happy....oil investors and speculators on the stock market may not be. Hopefully it would mean more disposable income for Americans to pump back into the economy in other ways....buying boats, new vehicles, houses, G-Loomis rods, etc.
Think it isn't all one big circle? Think again!
[QUOTE=walkeraviator;453041]I have a hard time with words so I am going to quote a friend from an aviation forum i frequent...
"You need economics 101, profit margin and total profits are two very different things. You may have noticed oil is a popular product, lots of people buy it and need it.
Profit of 8% or so is constant over any amount, you are just having a little trouble wrapping your mind around the size of the business.
Once you can do without oil, you won't have to worry about how much people sell it for, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.
In fact the government takes about 42 cents on every gallon of gas sold and the typical oil company makes about seven cents. Do the math on that." - Jungle
This guy knows his sh*t... I will find the links to all the information that backs this stuff... I was actually in agreement with don that oil companies were to blame til this guy pointed me in the right direction and i did some research... Now I understand how teh government getting involved is just bad.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you send BP a donation check if they have it so bad.
Geez, think I will send the check I was going to send to the Red Cross for the Alabama disater to Exxon Mobile after reading this.
What you are saying is that he government makes more money on gas sales than all of the oil companies combined???? This would include Exxon, Mobile, Conico, BP, Chevron and scores of others. Each one of the bigger companies report quartarly earnings (In the US) of as much as 500 Billion dollars (for a quarter!!!). Thease earning approch close to the GDP of California, New york, Florida combined.
Sorry I do not buy into the 21 cents to 28 cent profit per gallon.
[QUOTE=kydonky;453070]Why don't you send BP a donation check if they have it so bad.
Geez, think I will send the check I was going to send to the Red Cross for the Alabama disater to Exxon Mobile after reading this.
What you are saying is that he government makes more money on gas sales than all of the oil companies combined???? This would include Exxon, Mobile, Conico, BP, Chevron and scores of others. Each one of the bigger companies report quartarly earnings (In the US) of as much as 500 Billion dollars (for a quarter!!!). Thease earning approch close to the GDP of California, New york, Florida combined.
Sorry I do not buy into the 21 cents to 28 cent profit per gallon.[/QUOTE]
Show me ONE that posted 500 billion in profits in 1 quarter........just ONE.
Your numbers are inflated by about 100 fold, but I guess posting crap is better than posting facts.......
Here are some facts for ya.....
[url]http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2011/apr/11/jim-moran/rep-jim-moran-says-top-five-oil-us-companies-raked/[/url]
AND who gives a rip if you don't believe the 20 - 28 cents profit/gallon.....READ their yearly earnings reports......they TOO are public record.
Later,
Geo
[QUOTE=kydonky;453070]Why don't you send BP a donation check if they have it so bad.
Geez, think I will send the check I was going to send to the Red Cross for the Alabama disater to Exxon Mobile after reading this.
What you are saying is that he government makes more money on gas sales than all of the oil companies combined???? This would include Exxon, Mobile, Conico, BP, Chevron and scores of others. Each one of the bigger companies report quartarly earnings (In the US) of as much as 500 Billion dollars (for a quarter!!!). Thease earning approch close to the GDP of California, New york, Florida combined.
Sorry I do not buy into the 21 cents to 28 cent profit per gallon.[/QUOTE]
Nobody said they had it bad. They have it good....real good....and they have us by the gonads.
But don't confuse Gross Profit (Sales-Cost of Goods Sold) with Net Profit (Sales-Cost of Goods Sold-Operating Expenses aka "everything else")
Look at net profit dollars on the bottom line, after all expenses (Sure, there is the standard corporate "fluff" in their expenses that includes ridiculous payroll for management)....
I'll bet you, not even having looked at their statements, that at the end of the day when you compare that net net figure with what the US Government collected in taxes on however many gallons of gasoline that they sold [U][B]here[/B][/U] in that period....the US Government wins....and basically doesn't do a whole lot but but stand there with their hands out to collect.
It's not cheap to find, drill, pump, transport, refine, transport, distribute, and then sell gas to the end user.
Don't forget though, these are global companies....the earnings they report aren't just made by selling here in the U.S. Look at just what is sold here, compared to just what profit is made on what is sold here, compared to what the US Government collects in taxes per gallon.
The US consumes 378 Million Gallons of Gasoline per day.
If the Government collects an average of .40 per gallon, times 378 Million Gallons, times 365 days a year....my calculator doesn't go that far. Don't tell me it's not a HUGE profit center for the US Government!
I don't have the answer, but I know it's not further taxing Big Oil....
You either try to cut Big Oil's nuts off by regulating their industry and squashing free-enterprise...which I'm not sure will work.
Or, you Drill Baby Drill to increase supply, competition, and lower prices...which would work, but only if Big Oil wanted it to work...and "lower prices" won't be on their agenda until we hit the wall and people stop driving/buying. When that happens, market forces alone may drive the price back down. Roller coaster of love...
[QUOTE=GeoFisher;453076]Show me ONE that posted 500 billion in profits in 1 quarter........just ONE.
Your numbers are inflated by about 100 fold, but I guess posting crap is better than posting facts.......
Here are some facts for ya.....
[URL]http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2011/apr/11/jim-moran/rep-jim-moran-says-top-five-oil-us-companies-raked/[/URL]
AND who gives a rip if you don't believe the 20 - 28 cents profit/gallon.....READ their yearly earnings reports......they TOO are public record.
Later,
Geo[/QUOTE]
Sorry, typo should be 5 billion. Still a lot of moola.
Anyway the point is that gouging is occurring. Big oil has no conscience. It you remove the tax, oil companies will rasie the price to the level it was at with the tax. Why? because this is what people will pay.
My father used to tell me Business has no Conscience. When you think about it it is true. Donald Trump does not file bankrupcy, his business does.
Heck I just work here
I'm sorry it's just business.
The whole idea of corporation is to remove personal responsibility from actions.
Limited liability company, ever heared that.
Now there are also very very good reasons for corporations. Who would risk all on a venture without some degree protection. Inovation would be stiffled without them.
Sad but true. Government is the conscence of business. Without some regulations and limits we would be in deep stuff from the bottom end.
Last point. We do not need to reduce our dependancy on foreign oil. We need to reduce dependancy on oil period. Saudi oil is the same price as Texas or Tennessee oil. Convert my car to hydrogen, alcohol or any renewable source. In the mean time lets just make a start reducing the dependance on oil.
[QUOTE=kydonky;453144]
Sad but true. Government is the conscence of business. Without some regulations and limits we would be in deep stuff from the bottom end.
[/QUOTE]
THAT is the most single laughable thing I've read on this site in a very, VERY long time.
If government had ANY concious, we'd NOT be in the fiscal mess we're IN.
* Who do you suppose SPENT like drunken sailors.
* Who do you suppose CREATED medicare and medicaid.
* Who do you suppose CREATED Welfare......
* Who do you suppose SPENDS money they don't have and NEVER planned on having.
* Who do you suppose GETS us into messes all round the world ( not that some are not justified.......like the current actions).
Yes my friend.......LAUGHABLE.
Later,
Geo