Debt Ceiling for Dummies

Mr. Geo im a business owner and i got rich building and investing in my business--however tax breaks did not make me rich--my business grew under the clinton years when the middle class were takin care off--the vast majority of our country is average hard workin middle class folks--80% of consumption in small business comes from those middle class folks--if we keep attacking middle class programs such as social security/medicaid/unions then these folks wont be able to support small business and then no one gets rich--would you rather have to pay an extra few thousand a year in taxes or have 80% of your business clientele not be able to afford to shop in your business because their salary dropped and their benifits were takin away by the repubs--the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win

[QUOTE=vetbass;461383]the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win[/QUOTE]

The fact that the mortgage crash went on had alot to do with this recession. A potus doesn't create jobs anyway. His ideas might get into Congress but thats about it. Also the Dems controlled Congress in 2007 until recently so that plays into job creation as well. Blaming Bush for losing 7 million jobs? Like always I would like to see that data....just asking.:)

BTW...the GOP controlled Congress for many years under Clinton. The idea that the GOP will crush the country is false. I like the idea that one party controls congress while another party has the potus. I used to blame one party without any regard for the responsibility of the other party and thats plain wrong. It's selfish crooked politicians.

Both parties are to blame for where we are. No one can prove any different.

[QUOTE=vetbass;461383]Mr. Geo im a business owner and i got rich building and investing in my business--however tax breaks did not make me rich--my business grew under the clinton years when the middle class were takin care off--the vast majority of our country is average hard workin middle class folks--80% of consumption in small business comes from those middle class folks--if we keep attacking middle class programs such as social security/medicaid/unions then these folks wont be able to support small business and then no one gets rich--would you rather have to pay an extra few thousand a year in taxes or have 80% of your business clientele not be able to afford to shop in your business because their salary dropped and their benifits were takin away by the repubs--the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win[/QUOTE]

How many of those "middle" class folks can AFFORD anything made by "middle class folks" NOT MANY. It is great that the middle class has moved economically, BUT they moved using collective bargaining to price themselves out of the market. NO ONE should make 70k a year pushing a broom......I've seen and experienced that first hand.

7 Million JOBS??

Right....

[url]http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet?request_action=wh&graph_name=LN_cpsbref3[/url]

Liberals LOVE to bash Reagan here.......but you know what, during his years the United States experienced the greatest non wartime economic growth in the history of our country.

The economy that he inherited was horrible. We were coming off an oil embargo, Interest rates were 22% to purchase a house.......YOU GUYS REMEMBER THAT.......

In 18 months, REAGAN and his policies turned the country around and we started on the greatest GDP growth in history.......

YOU CANNOT DENY THAT.

And Obama.......well he's leading us the the worst GDP growth in history.....

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=vetbass;461383]Mr. Geo im a business owner and i got rich building and investing in my business--however tax breaks did not make me rich--my business grew under the clinton years when the middle class were takin care off--the vast majority of our country is average hard workin middle class folks--80% of consumption in small business comes from those middle class folks--if we keep attacking middle class programs such as social security/medicaid/unions then these folks wont be able to support small business and then no one gets rich--would you rather have to pay an extra few thousand a year in taxes or have 80% of your business clientele not be able to afford to shop in your business because their salary dropped and their benifits were takin away by the repubs--the bush years and his tax cuts for the rich did nothing except bring us to the brink of depression--according to the repubs tax cuts for the job creators are supposed to increase jobs--we lost 7 million jobs during the bush years--support the middle class and we all win[/QUOTE]
One word.. Nafta.

[QUOTE=vetbass;461326]if we do default obama will make sure that Mr. Stewart will get what im sure of is his much deserved retirement and ss check--however every american will suffer because interests rates will skyrocket--that means house loans-car loans-business loans-school loans will be more expansive--therefore once again the middle class folks will suffer which in my opinion is exactly what the extreme right wants so they can try to get rid of obama--the right continues to sacrifice the middle class to protect the rich who they say are the "job creators"-- I am a business owner and exactly what the right considers is a "job creator"--in no way shape or form does what i pay in taxes determine if i create jobs--consumption is what creates jobs--people consuming my product is what stimulates job creation not if I have to pay an extra 2-3% in taxes--the majority of consumption in this country comes from the middle class--the middle class indirectly creates jobs in this country not the top 2%--expecting the middle class alone to balance the budget will kill consumption, business and jobs
sorry for such a long rant[/QUOTE]

Well if the taxes are raised on big business, doesn't that give big business incentive to outsource labor to over seas? If they do that then that would raise the unemployment rate and decrease the size of the middle class and increase the size of the number of people near the poverty level. I think that unemployed people would spend less, thus decreasing consumption which according to you creates jobs. I saw what happened in Pittsburgh when cheap Japanese steel decimated our steel industry in the 70's and 80's. I also saw Texas Instruments move across the border to reduce labor costs. Plus a business making $250,00.00 a year is not a very big business. It is a small business. My Family Income comes close to that and I'm not a business. I agree to a certain extent of what you say but there has to be a balance. Government, through policies needs to create a business friendly environment. They will never do this with extreme policies based on their ideology.

tom--the amount of cash big business will lose from tax increases is nothing compared to what they will lose with no middle class to buy their products--someone has to pay taxes--either the wealthy who have just gotten wealthier the last 10 years or the middle class who have gotten poorer

[QUOTE=Tom523;461430]Well if the taxes are raised on big business, doesn't that give big business incentive to outsource labor to over seas? If they do that then that would raise the unemployment rate and decrease the size of the middle class and increase the size of the number of people near the poverty level. I think that unemployed people would spend less, thus decreasing consumption which according to you creates jobs. I saw what happened in Pittsburgh when cheap Japanese steel decimated our steel industry in the 70's and 80's. I also saw Texas Instruments move across the border to reduce labor costs. Plus a business making $250,00.00 a year is not a very big business. It is a small business. My Family Income comes close to that and I'm not a business. I agree to a certain extent of what you say but there has to be a balance. Government, through policies needs to create a business friendly environment. They will never do this with extreme policies based on their ideology.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree here, tax big business and guess what big business is going to do? Their going to move to where they don't have to pay all that tax and the labor will most likely be at least 80% cheaper.

[QUOTE=Catfish Bob;461445]I have to agree here, tax big business and guess what big business is going to do? Their going to move to where they don't have to pay all that tax and the labor will most likely be at least 80% cheaper.[/QUOTE]

No one should make 70K pushing a broom (btw, this isn't the case most of the time, you know...)...and nobody making millions from corporate earnings should pay less of a percentage into the "pot" than someone who works to struggle through life feeding his family.

Then we need to rethink NAFTA and other trade agreements of imported materials that could be made here and encourage America to rebuild itself from the inside out...maybe it'll be an economic stimulus to buying American made products and stimulate the economy. People on here bash politicians for not taxing big businesses...its the big businesses and other lobbyists in collusion with BOTH parties that dictate our government and swell it to beyond its natural economic carrying capacity. I agree spending has to be reigned in responsibly. To not raise taxes on big businesses in fear of them taking jobs overseas is definitely not as big of threat as having the foundation fall out beneath this country. Factors such as minimum wages and regulations (including environmental ones that protect resources we love like hunting and fishing) drive off more "big job" industries that used to be more abundant here in the USA than tax hikes ever will. You guys can blame the obamunists (aka anyone who isn't ultra conservative across the board) all you want, but someone said it best when he said both parties are to blame here.

Ah coombro! its your fault, I wasn't going to go ninto past presidents, BUT NAFTA was Ronnies [or the folks who owned him}idea.So how did Ronnie manage to have a 9.7 unemployment rate in his second and third year in office?How many of his cabinet members were accused of lying to congress?Iraq attacked and killed american sailors, but apologized. Marines in Lebanon were slaughtered.So what did we do? Mined a harbor in Nicaragua.Oh forgot, we did win a war,it was Grenada.

[QUOTE=kygorski;461450]Ah coombro! its your fault, I wasn't going to go ninto past presidents, BUT NAFTA was Ronnies [or the folks who owned him}idea.So how did Ronnie manage to have a 9.7 unemployment rate in his second and third year in office?How many of his cabinet members were accused of lying to congress?Iraq attacked and killed american sailors, but apologized. Marines in Lebanon were slaughtered.So what did we do? Mined a harbor in Nicaragua.Oh forgot, we did win a war,it was Grenada.[/QUOTE] sounds like you have a good memory, did you forget. " trickle down economics " after 30 plus years of the money from the rich trickling down to the poor, one would think the poor should start reaping some benefits by now.

No I didn't forget trickle down, also didn't forget the saving and loans bail out, the selling of arms to Iran to free hostages, the CIA trained death squads in central america,Also didn't forget the pardons that HWBush handed out so a few folks could not be tried.

hey man I din't mean to do it. I can't hang on these political arguments like you guys do nor would I want to. I give you guys kudo's as to your opinions, yet it seems everything I Install anymore is made in mexico. I voted for the little guy with the big ears.