A question of values.......

[QUOTE=RoadToad;462664]Before I answer about how I was raised, I feel like I should clarify about my beliefs, which is hard for me to do. As a young man, I had myself convinced I was an atheist, but looking back I think that was more just rebellion against organized religion, which I threw in with the rest of the "establishment." I too was an "oops baby," my two brothers are 8 and 10 years older than me, and I tended to try and emulate them, except I took it to the nth degree - they got their rebellion out of the way during their teens, whereas mine continued well into my 20's. But later on in life I've come to realize that the atheists are doing exactly the same thing - claiming to know the absolute truth about something that is unknowable. And that is at the crux of what I believe today. The entity that we call God is something way more mystical and fantastic than we on Earth have the power to understand, and it is the ultimate conceit to tell someone that they have to believe the same as you do or they're going to Hell.

OK I was about to go on and on about my beliefs, but that's not what you asked. Just understand that I have given this a good deal of thought, and continue to do so today. When I was growing up, we went to a Methodist church on Sunday, but we really didn't discuss religion all that much at home. I do remember one of my brothers cussing and being told, "You will not take the Lord's name in vain in this house!", but we didn't sit down and discuss the Bible or anything like that. But there was a Christian summer camp that we all went to for a week or two every year, and I have some great memories from there. Looking back now, I have to think my parents chose the Methodist church out of convenience more than ideology. My father came from a long line of Seventh Day Baptists in Wisconsin (Pardon Davis was my 3rd cousin, 3 times removed: [URL]http://www.wlhn.org/wnf/stories/pardondavis.htm[/URL]) and while I've never asked, I would assume my mother was raised Catholic, since her mom was French Canadian and her dad was Dutch.

So I guess the short answer would be that I am one of the people you're talking about, in that I was raised by Christians, but I don't believe you have to be a Christian to be a good person. And I suppose you think this proves something or other, I'm not sure what. I would just like to point out one thing: Only 30% of the nearly 7 billion people on this planet adhere to the Christian faith. Of the remaining 70%, I daresay there are quite literally BILLIONS of people who lead extremely moral and ethical lives, without, as you put it, an OUNCE of Christ.[/QUOTE]

Hey............thanks for the answer...and believe it or not, this is about what I expected .........

And I really should have worded this differently. I should have said a theological background instead of Christian. I don't think Christians corner the market, but I'm really talking about American values and morals, and since Christianity of some sort or another make up 80% of the religions in America, that is what I focused on.

Again.......I'm just wondering.

Later,

Geo

Geo no offense taken I was just stating position.

As an observation, it seems as if an outsider (such as a parent, mentor, etc.) teaches a solid set or morals and ethical values a person often times ends up the same as a person that was raised by the moral and ethical lessons taught in the bible. It was just a different person doing the teaching.

My parents did a good job.

NOw my brother will sometimes knock the need for religion but he is still a little young and has some "MACHO" in him. His moral compass points the right direction as well.

Sometimes I relate the entry into heaven to the NCAA basketball tournament selection show, jokingly of course. I'm guessing myself to be an at-large entity in about the 4 seed range........

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;462669]And I really should have worded this differently. I should have said a theological background instead of Christian. I don't think Christians corner the market, but I'm really talking about American values and morals, and since Christianity of some sort or another make up 80% of the religions in America, that is what I focused on.[/QUOTE]
I understand; this kind of thing is difficult to quantify. But if what you're looking for is people who were brought up in atheist households, I think you're going to have a hard time finding any. Currently less that 2% of the US population call themselves atheist or agnostic, and while I don't know the numbers, I'd bet if you go back a generation, that becomes a very tiny percentage.

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;462642] He then went on for an hour about the "lies" about Mormonism. Of course he was a "strong Methodist Christian". A few days later, I told him that I was Mormon......he of course back peddled quite a bit, but the truth had been told. [/QUOTE]

Curious as to what these "lies" of Mormonism were that he stated?

-Rich

I was not raised in any religion. I only remember us going to church as a family one time, and that was on Easter Sunday my dad took us to my great grandmothers church. Never really went to church regularly at all until my wife and I started dating.

[QUOTE=Tim_T;462696]I was not raised in any religion. I only remember us going to church as a family one time, and that was on Easter Sunday my dad took us to my great grandmothers church. Never really went to church regularly at all until my wife and I started dating.[/QUOTE]

Yea and you turned out alright.......Ugly but alright....:)

Good old fashion discipline teaches more morals than anything....it amazes me how little you see a kid disciplined for doing wrong. Shoot, I remember getting my butt busted in K-Mart when I was kid for something...can't remember what it was, but I sure didn't do it again!

Parents just aren't as involved in kids' lives like they used to be, especially with all of the distractions that continue to reduce the amount of time families spend together devoting 100% attention to one another...like at the dinner table...

"Life" as we call it isn't the same as it was 50 years ago...with people working longer hours and sometimes more than 5 days a week, "family time" is disappearing...it's hard to discipline kids and teach them right and wrong if you hardly ever see them....

[QUOTE=psprowler;462660]I've never spouted about NOT needing Christ but at the same time not real sure where I fit in and never have been. I can count on hands and toes the number of times I have went to church - my parents never pushed it. With that said I can say I lead a pretty moral and ethical life with less than an ounce of Christ.

My view is this - do the best you can, try to always do what's right, and if you can do that the rest will fall into place

My wife is Catholic. Just tossing that in - she has been taking the kids to church school but I don't plan on trying to push anything on them except for the views stated in the paragraph above this one.[/QUOTE]
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I was not taken to church by my parents either but did go to sunday school with my brother who was 2 years older than me for a few years so I'm not the person Mr. Fisher is looking for... I do however believe we all have an inherent set of scruples and a conscience that guides us to what we think is right or wrong regardless of any religious background we might or might not have... These values seem to vary widely from person to person as we do seem to have individuals who seemingly have no conscience... Most folks think it is wrong to kill another person but then keep firearms for that very reason... "Thou shalt not kill" doesn't seem to leave room for killing folks no matter what the reason... I don't believe a person needs religion in his life to have a decent set of morals and the ability to know right from wrong in most cases.

[QUOTE=RICHYD4U;462693]Curious as to what these "lies" of Mormonism were that he stated?

-Rich[/QUOTE]

Without offending any Mormon friends here......I don't believe in the Book of Mormon......NOT that Mormons don't have some of the strongest values systems out there.....and NOT that I'm slamming anyone who believes that. A lot of my family still believes that way, but I chose not to.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Hlleonard;462704]--
I was not taken to church by my parents either but did go to sunday school with my brother who was 2 years older than me for a few years so I'm not the person Mr. Fisher is looking for... I do however believe we all have an inherent set of scruples and a conscience that guides us to what we think is right or wrong regardless of any religious background we might or might not have... These values seem to vary widely from person to person as we do seem to have individuals who seemingly have no conscience... [U][B]Most folks think it is wrong to kill another person but then keep firearms for that very reason...[/B][/U] "Thou shalt not kill" doesn't seem to leave room for killing folks no matter what the reason... I don't believe a person needs religion in his life to have a decent set of morals and the ability to know right from wrong in most cases.[/QUOTE]

Really? I don't know a single person who keeps a gun to kill somebody. Who are these people and where do they live?

[QUOTE=mhall;462697]Yea and you turned out alright.......Ugly but alright....:)[/QUOTE]

Let me stand next to Doug and I look like a GQ model! :)

Besides, who are you to be calling someone else ugly with that big melon that rest atop your neck?

[QUOTE=Tim_T;462713]Really? I don't know a single person who keeps a gun to kill somebody. Who are these people and where do they live?[/QUOTE]
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You don't know anybody who keeps a firearm for personal protection?