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I've come to the conclusion there is no such thing as science anymore.
All we have is advocacy pseudo-science, on both sides. It is all driven by the search for funding, and the funding comes from those seeking "data" to validate their position. You better believe when a researcher gets a grant he/she dang well knows what his research better end up saying.
[QUOTE=jcb;470072]I've come to the conclusion there is no such thing as science anymore.
All we have is advocacy pseudo-science, on both sides. It is all driven by the search for funding, and the funding comes from those seeking "data" to validate their position. You better believe when a researcher gets a grant he/she dang well knows what his research better end up saying.[/QUOTE]
BINGO........we have a winner............
Later,
Geo
Global warming??? Wow, that's a relief. I thought I was just getting old enough to he having hot flashes.
[QUOTE=jcb;470072]I've come to the conclusion there is no such thing as science anymore.
All we have is advocacy pseudo-science, on both sides. It is all driven by the search for funding, and the funding comes from those seeking "data" to validate their position. You better believe when a researcher gets a grant he/she dang well knows what his research better end up saying.[/QUOTE]
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Not a believer in a creator some 6000 years ago but the big bang is a tough pill to swallow... It does look for the most part that the scientific group that is studying something has their own future at heart maybe more than a scientific conclusion of some kind... Global warming effects me differently depending on what day it is and who I might be listening to at the time... Most folks can find some data that backs up what they are saying... I'm always anxious for global warming to show up in the spring after I have been stuck in the house for two months.
4.55 billion years for the Earth's actual age, and estimate of course.
And the concept of global warming was first discussed:
"Dr. Jim Hansen of NASA first put out the idea that we were entering into a period of global cooling in the 1970's.
After this failed to get traction in the marketplace, he switched to global warming, and his idea took hold as people were buying into the idea. Since then, he has made millions off of this scam.
This scam started in the early 1980's. Before that, no one even heard of "Global Warming"."
2011-1980 = 31 years, 31 years divided by 4.55 billion years 0.0000007% of the time earth has been here somebody things things are gettting warmer.
This is pretty much like deciding within the first 2 inches, how a 3 million mile trip will go.
Get a life folks, you can't make statistical inferences from a sampling thats not representative of the total population.
OMG....this drunk fisherman just sounded like a Masters degree in Statistical Analysis.
Bottom line: You got more to worry about when your phone bill comes in then global warming.
I'm not a very smart person, my friends and neighbors know it and you will also by the time you read this, but my view point is this. Why does it surprise anyone to hear that the climate is changing? Everyone knows that there have been many, many changes on this earth since it was formed. The earth is continually changing and always has. The land masses were mostly together at one point and over millions of years drifted apart to form our continents. Many parts of the earth were covered with water millions of years ago, but is not now. Did you ever wonder how the Great Salt Flats were formed?
There was an ice age that covered much of North America at least, with a layer of ice and now most of it is gone. Glaciers are still scattered here and there, but for the most part they have retreated to the colder north. They brought some minerals from the north and left them scattered in the south and eastern US. There were many active volcanos in earth's past and now most are dormant. I have read that volcanic action may have been responsible for the larger deposits of various minerals on the surface of the earth such as gold, silver, and diamonds. Mountain ranges, such as the Appalachians formed, partially eroded away and then the Rocky Mountains were formed. What of the climate changes that helped form our coal, oil, and gas deposits? What changes in the climate made it possible for dinosaurs to exist and then caused them to die? A land bridge that allowed humans and animals to spread from Asia no longer exists. If there were no change, we would never age, never have children, and never die.
I do not understand why people seem surprised when change occurs, because it is a reoccurring theme in nature and history. The earth revolves around the sun and tilts on its axis. This causes day and night and summer and winter. There are rainstorms, floods, sunshine, forests, and deserts. Civilizations rise and fall. Throughout recorded history changes have occurred continually, horses to automobiles, and candles to electricity. The only constant in life is change. People have continually adapted to those changes through thousands of years of history. We must adapt or we will go the way of the dinosaur. Perhaps, it is that they may occur faster these days and that is what surprises us. Call it Global Warming or what you will, but change is nothing new. Sorry for the length of my post, but this is something I devoted some thought to.
[QUOTE=kygorski;469924]About the billion figure, it was meant to be about china. Me I'm not worried about global warming or cooling, aint gonna happen on my watch. But there are a heckpf a lot of folks smarter than I am who say its happening. So for me, doesn't matter, but some of you guys might get a chance to find out![/QUOTE]
Global warming is happening and it's a natural occurrence. There is proof that earth has been cooling and warming for thousands of years. But there are people in this world that are trying to make everyone think that man is to blame. They are trying to get wealthy on it. How is buying and selling carbon credits going to save the ozone. The whole idea on passing legislation to prevent global warming is ridiculous. I can buy a million carbon credits and accomplish only one thing ... money changing hands.
I'm glad to see somebody else posting that the earth is actually warming. I've posted before that my position is basically that yes, it is warming, but the question is: how much of it is nature, and how much of it is human influence? And when I did, I was shot down by others denying that there is even a warming trend going on, claiming that the data has been manipulated, and it's all just one huge conspiracy.
Al Gore is a tool, we all agree on that. His doomsday predictions were way exaggerated, and spun for maximum effect. But that doesn't mean there's nothing to it. We have dumped such enormous quantities of pollutants into the atmosphere, and razed such vast expanses of forest, that it's naive to expect we wouldn't have had any effect on the climate.
The "carbon credits" idea won't do much, if anything, to help the situation, in my view. But we do need to do something to reduce emissions, and not just carbon emissions. I don't have a solution, but please don't pretend there's no problem.
[QUOTE=RoadToad;470426]I'm glad to see somebody else posting that the earth is actually warming. I've posted before that my position is basically that yes, it is warming, but the question is: how much of it is nature, and how much of it is human influence? And when I did, I was shot down by others denying that there is even a warming trend going on, claiming that the data has been manipulated, and it's all just one huge conspiracy.
Al Gore is a tool, we all agree on that. His doomsday predictions were way exaggerated, and spun for maximum effect. But that doesn't mean there's nothing to it. We have dumped such enormous quantities of pollutants into the atmosphere, and razed such vast expanses of forest, that it's naive to expect we wouldn't have had any effect on the climate.
The "carbon credits" idea won't do much, if anything, to help the situation, in my view. But we do need to do something to reduce emissions, and not just carbon emissions. I don't have a solution, but please don't pretend there's no problem.[/QUOTE]
And just think the pubs want to all but get rid of the EPA.
Bob even though not much was made of the science before the times you mentioned the data the they use for the studies dates back much, much longer than 31 years.
Here's a good starting place with lots of ino for anyone interested in climate change or even for you non-belivers to visit and make fun of.
[url]http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/[/url]
I don't think anyone with a brain would argue that the climate has and always be changing but if you look at the rate it's changing then you have to wonder what might be causing it.
Here's a quote from one of the linked articles in the link above.
"The main reason for the current concern about climate change is the rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration (and some other greenhouse gases), which is very unusual for the Quaternary (about the last two million years). The concentration of CO2 is now known accurately for the past 650,000 years from antarctic ice cores. During this time, CO2 concentration varied between a low of 180 ppm during cold glacial times and a high of 300 ppm during warm interglacials. Over the past century, it rapidly increased well out of this range, and is now 379 ppm (see Chapter 2). For comparison, the approximately 80-ppm rise in CO2 concentration at the end of the past ice ages generally took over 5,000 years"
[QUOTE=RoadToad;470426]I'm glad to see somebody else posting that the earth is actually warming. I've posted before that my position is basically that yes, it is warming, but the question is: how much of it is nature, and how much of it is human influence? And when I did, I was shot down by others denying that there is even a warming trend going on, claiming that the data has been manipulated, and it's all just one huge conspiracy.
Al Gore is a tool, we all agree on that. His doomsday predictions were way exaggerated, and spun for maximum effect. But that doesn't mean there's nothing to it. We have dumped such enormous quantities of pollutants into the atmosphere, and razed such vast expanses of forest, that it's naive to expect we wouldn't have had any effect on the climate.
The "carbon credits" idea won't do much, if anything, to help the situation, in my view. But we do need to do something to reduce emissions, and not just carbon emissions. I don't have a solution, but please don't pretend there's no problem.[/QUOTE]
Hard for me......but I AGREE...........
My take is that we're arrogant to think we know enough to be able to predict climate change, let alone CHANGE it.......The earth has been changing forever. Maybe we're contributing, maybe we're not.
Later,
Geo
[QUOTE=pontooner;470457]And just think the pubs want to all but get rid of the EPA.
Bob even though not much was made of the science before the times you mentioned the data the they use for the studies dates back much, much longer than 31 years.
Here's a good starting place with lots of ino for anyone interested in climate change or even for you non-belivers to visit and make fun of.
[url]http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/[/url]
I don't think anyone with a brain would argue that the climate has and always be changing but if you look at the rate it's changing then you have to wonder what might be causing it.
Here's a quote from one of the linked articles in the link above.
"The main reason for the current concern about climate change is the rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration (and some other greenhouse gases), which is very unusual for the Quaternary (about the last two million years). The concentration of CO2 is now known accurately for the past 650,000 years from antarctic ice cores. During this time, CO2 concentration varied between a low of 180 ppm during cold glacial times and a high of 300 ppm during warm interglacials. Over the past century, it rapidly increased well out of this range, and is now 379 ppm (see Chapter 2). For comparison, the approximately 80-ppm rise in CO2 concentration at the end of the past ice ages generally took over 5,000 years"[/QUOTE]
Pretty Quote......but ARROGANT to think we know enough to pontificate on the issue.......
You can call it "arrogant pontification," but the alternative is to ignore the facts in front of us, which I would call irresponsible in the extreme. And there's nothing arrogant about analyzing historical data, coupling that with information about current behavior, and trying to extrapolate where that might lead. In fact, I'd say the ability to do that is the primary reason we no longer live in caves.