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[QUOTE=mhall;501238]I'm the Big O and this is my trusty sidekick DumbJoe and we are here to save the day by taking money from the evil rich people to give to the poor needy folks..
Ta Da...................Sound of trumpet's and a mighty swoosh from their Cape and away...
FLIPPIN STUPID IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good God it's just frickin laughable!!![/QUOTE]
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lol....Isn't that what all taxes are about, whether collected from the rich or the not so rich and given back to us in the form of highways,defense,disaster relief and all the other government programs tax dollars support.
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[QUOTE=GeoFisher;501237]I AGREE completely with what you're saying, but you are a little off. I don't think it is double taxed.
In my case I buy some stock on the open market.........not a crap ton of stocks but I probably spend 1k a year adding additional pieces to my stock portfolio..........WHENEVER I have some extra money and I want to add, I generally ADD it there.
That 1000 is after tax.....so yea, I was taxed on it, but only the GAIN, meaning the value I made off of the sold instrument is taxed, and that is taxed and different rates. Say that 1000 dollars was invested in something that tripled in value, making the value now 3000. I made 2000, so that 2000 is taxed.
If I choose to sell that in the FIRST year of ownership, that is considered a short term gain and is taxed at my regular income rate.
If I choose to hold it and ride it out and have it for 1 year or more, then that is a long term gain and is taxed at 15%.......this is where the 15% for Mitt Romney comes from.
This may not be exactly right...but it is pretty close.
I hope this helps.
Later,
Geo[/QUOTE]
I apologize if I wasn't clear, but that is not what I meant. Let me try again and see if I can better make my point.
Dividends are paid by a corporation from after tax dollars. In other words dividends are not a tax right off for the company, but instead that money was already taxed once for that calendar year at the corporate level and then when paid out to the individual in the form of a dividend it is then taxed again for a second time.
My entire point is that if we are not talking about resentment of the "rich" but instead having an honest discussion about general tax revenue then dividends are a big win for the government because they will most often generate an even higher overall rate of tax return. Most large corporations that people invest in for dividend income will often be at the corporate rate of 35%. So using that as an example here are the numbers.
Let us use a $1000 of profit. It is taxed at the corporate level at 35% and the corporation pays the IRS $350 on those earnings. Then those same profit dollars are distributed to share holders in the form of dividends. The individual will also be charged a tax on that same money at the 15% rate and pay the IRS and additional $150 on the same money. That is how it is double taxed by the IRS. The same money is taxed twice. They are collecting a total of $500 or 50% in taxes for that $1000 of profit which ends up paid out in dividends.
IMO it is a win/win situation. It generates higher tax revenue, while at the same time encourages investment from individuals in our countries economy. If the IRS instead taxed it as an ordinary earned income, there would be much less incentive for individuals to risk their money, and the results would drastically hurt our economy.
Remember a dividend is paid out to shareholders who are part owners in the company. It is a way of distributing profits. It is entirely different than earned income.
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[QUOTE=SLP;501243]I apologize if I wasn't clear, but that is not what I meant. Let me try again and see if I can better make my point.
Dividends are paid by a corporation from after tax dollars. In other words dividends are not a tax right off for the company, but instead that money was already taxed once for that calendar year at the corporate level and then when paid out to the individual in the form of a dividend it is then taxed again for a second time.
My entire point is that if we are not talking about resentment of the "rich" but instead having an honest discussion about general tax revenue then dividends are a big win for the government because they will most often generate an even higher overall rate of tax return. Most large corporations that people invest in for dividend income will often be at the corporate rate of 35%. So using that as an example here are the numbers.
Let us use a $1000 of profit. It is taxed at the corporate level at 35% and the corporation pays the IRS $350 on those earnings. Then those same profit dollars are distributed to share holders in the form of dividends. The individual will also be charged a tax on that same money at the 15% rate and pay the IRS and additional $150 on the same money. That is how it is double taxed by the IRS. The same money is taxed twice. They are collecting a total of $500 or 50% in taxes for that $1000 of profit which ends up paid out in dividends.
IMO it is a win/win situation. It generates higher tax revenue, while at the same time encourages investment from individuals in our countries economy. If the IRS instead taxed it as an ordinary earned income, there would be much less incentive for individuals to risk their money, and the results would drastically hurt our economy.
Remember a dividend is paid out to shareholders who are part owners in the company. It is a way of distributing profits. It is entirely different than earned income.[/QUOTE]
AH..........I wasn't catching that version, but yea, I guess dividends are double taxed.....I have some stocks that pay dividends, but those are tied into my IRA. All those dividends are rolled into the IRA and not taken as income. I guess if I actually did take the 34 dollars :) :) I made in dividend income last year, I'd be taxed on it.
Point Taken.
I''m really beginning to HATE taxes even more..............GRR.
Later,
Geo
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[QUOTE=Hlleonard;501240]--
lol....Isn't that what all taxes are about, whether collected from the rich or the not so rich and given back to us in the form of highways,defense,disaster relief and all the other government programs tax dollars support.[/QUOTE]
True taxes make the country run but Big O and little Joe are selling it as tax the evil rich folks who "didn't build that" (sorry had to toss that in) don't pay enough and if you elect him he will make them pay!!!! Of course he is rich, Joe is rich and the majority of the legislators are rich. He has had how many years to do this? Also didn't he extend the Bush tax cuts?
How much you wanna bet they don't do their own taxes and have accountants who's job is to get every tax break possible for them. Hell some of those crooks don't even pay their taxes on time!! But yet they scream this garbage and people follow along like it's the way to prosperity. It's a scam and alot of folks are buying into it.
How long ago was it that the insider info was being fed to these congressmen and they were using that info to buy and sell stocks? Didn't that just happen and they passed a law to stop it?? Going on memory here without looking that up but if it went as I remember it's funny how that isn't mentioned anymore. Talk about crooked and evil!
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[QUOTE=DJD;501248]True taxes make the country run but Big O and little Joe are selling it as tax the evil rich folks who "didn't build that" (sorry had to toss that in) don't pay enough and if you elect him he will make them pay!!!! Of course he is rich, Joe is rich and the majority of the legislators are rich. He has had how many years to do this? Also didn't he extend the Bush tax cuts?
How much you wanna bet they don't do their own taxes and have accountants who's job is to get every tax break possible for them. Hell some of those crooks don't even pay their taxes on time!! But yet they scream this garbage and people follow along like it's the way to prosperity. It's a scam and alot of folks are buying into it.
How long ago was it that the insider info was being fed to these congressmen and they were using that info to buy and sell stocks? Didn't that just happen and they passed a law to stop it?? Going on memory here without looking that up but if it went as I remember it's funny how that isn't mentioned anymore. Talk about crooked and evil![/QUOTE]
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I think it is shameful that our politicians can seemingly exempt themselves from the laws they pass for the rest of us... The sad part is just about all americans know this, I have probably gotten a hundred emails to that effect and we seem to have no power to stop this... I guess we are as free a country as congress wants us to be, kinda like puppets in a puppet show.
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[QUOTE=waterdog101;501161]The very rich don't like to pay taxes, so it seams. by the way they use all the loopholes.[/QUOTE]
Most of your political posts hold no weight or value what so ever....including how you started this thread with the very first sentence, which is indicated above.
1. Who LIKES paying taxes?
2. I believe everyone on the totum pole uses every loop hole available to them come tax time...the less a person owns or the less he or she is responsible for, the less loop holes there are for them. (surely you know this?)
Romney/Ryan - 2012
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[QUOTE=Chubminnow;501270]Most of your political posts hold no weight or value what so ever....including how you started this thread with the very first sentence, which is indicated above.
1. Who LIKES paying taxes?
2. I believe everyone on the totum pole uses every loop hole available to them come tax time...the less a person owns or the less he or she is responsible for, the less loop holes there are for them. (surely you know this?)
Romney/Ryan - 2012[/QUOTE] I think everyone on here missed my point, you as well. when everyone read the first line about rich folks and taxes. they must have not read any more. my post was more so a joke about getting rich folks money without taxing them more. just postpone the election for another year. and let them keep spending their money on the election. they're spending 26.00 per SECOND.
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[QUOTE=SLP;501243]I apologize if I wasn't clear, but that is not what I meant. Let me try again and see if I can better make my point.
Dividends are paid by a corporation from after tax dollars. In other words dividends are not a tax right off for the company, but instead that money was already taxed once for that calendar year at the corporate level and then when paid out to the individual in the form of a dividend it is then taxed again for a second time.
My entire point is that if we are not talking about resentment of the "rich" but instead having an honest discussion about general tax revenue then dividends are a big win for the government because they will most often generate an even higher overall rate of tax return. Most large corporations that people invest in for dividend income will often be at the corporate rate of 35%. So using that as an example here are the numbers.
Let us use a $1000 of profit. It is taxed at the corporate level at 35% and the corporation pays the IRS $350 on those earnings. Then those same profit dollars are distributed to share holders in the form of dividends. The individual will also be charged a tax on that same money at the 15% rate and pay the IRS and additional $150 on the same money. That is how it is double taxed by the IRS. The same money is taxed twice. They are collecting a total of $500 or 50% in taxes for that $1000 of profit which ends up paid out in dividends.
IMO it is a win/win situation. It generates higher tax revenue, while at the same time encourages investment from individuals in our countries economy. If the IRS instead taxed it as an ordinary earned income, there would be much less incentive for individuals to risk their money, and the results would drastically hurt our economy.
Remember a dividend is paid out to shareholders who are part owners in the company. It is a way of distributing profits. It is entirely different than earned income.[/QUOTE]
Until our government shows a true willingness to decrease spending in a significant way, I am unilaterally opposed to any discussion of increased tax revenue. Why does our government need more?
A lot of people want to talk about "fair share" when it comes to taxes, but I believe the government already has its fair share and it's wasting a ton of it and continually wanting more.
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[QUOTE=waterdog101;501272]my post was more so a joke about getting rich folks money without taxing them more. just postpone the election for another year. and let them keep spending their money on the election. they're spending 26.00 per SECOND.[/QUOTE]
I'll agree with you there. It is obscene the amount of money spent on elections. Who says we're in a recession?
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[QUOTE=waterdog101;501161]The very rich don't like to pay taxes, so it seams. by the way they use all the loopholes. but here is a way to get some extra money from the rich, without taxing them more. push the election back another year, postpone it until 2013 and the rich folks money keeps pouring in. the rich don't care at all to empty their pockets in an election, the two party's are spending, 26 dollars and some change per second, on this election. now that has to be helping the economy. 26x60=1560.00 per minute...1560.00 X 60= 93,600.00 per hour...93,000.00 X 24= 2,246,400.00 per day.
X 365= 819,936,000.00 per year. I heard this on NPR radio last week, and I think the 26.00 per hour was for only one of the 2 partys. so that total would only be half the election spending. CRAZY!![/QUOTE]
I'm far from rich and I despise paying taxes too,why should someone be punished for having the initiative to work hard and gain something? Just so some scumbag like Obama can give it all to sorry butts who won't hit a lick? My family escaped from northern England and Scotland to avoid over-taxation,looks like we're gonna have to make another move because this country has turned to dung with the current administration and mindset of the socialist liberal idiots.
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[QUOTE=kyfanatic;501278]I'm far from rich and I despise paying taxes too,why should someone be punished for having the initiative to work hard and gain something? Just so some scumbag like Obama can give it all to sorry butts who won't hit a lick? My family escaped from northern England and Scotland to avoid over-taxation,looks like we're gonna have to make another move because this country has turned to dung with the current administration and mindset of the socialist liberal idiots.[/QUOTE]
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Punishment?..... Not sure taxes are considered punishment, we get a lot for our tax dollars, it does seem we pay a high price for what we get... I do believe our government waste a tremendous amount of money and it's not all on the welfare programs... Welfare is something like 12% of the budget and included in that is all the spending other than the "sorry butts who won't hit a lick" ... We don't yet have a way to dispose of the folks who are born with birth defects and other afflictions that prevent them from earning their living... Don't guess there is a way to gauge who the "sorry butts who won't hit a lick" or how much of that 12% they actually consume but I believe most folks who get assistance from these programs actually need it.... Just in case you are wondering, I also see the folks you are referring to as "sorry butts who won't hit a lick" and it gripes me also that we either can't or won't do something about it but that being the major cause of our budget nightmare simply isn't true.
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[QUOTE=Hlleonard;501281]--
Punishment?..... Not sure taxes are considered punishment, we get a lot for our tax dollars, it does seem we pay a high price for what we get... I do believe our government waste a tremendous amount of money and it's not all on the welfare programs... Welfare is something like 12% of the budget and included in that is all the spending other than the "sorry butts who won't hit a lick" ... We don't yet have a way to dispose of the folks who are born with birth defects and other afflictions that prevent them from earning their living... Don't guess there is a way to gauge who the "sorry butts who won't hit a lick" or how much of that 12% they actually consume but I believe most folks who get assistance from these programs actually need it.... Just in case you are wondering, I also see the folks you are referring to as "sorry butts who won't hit a lick" and it gripes me also that we either can't or won't do something about it but that being the major cause of our budget nightmare simply isn't true.[/QUOTE]
12%
Care to provide a link? I looked and cannot find anything that states that............All social programs combined cost more than our military. I CAN provide a link to that.
[url]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/budget_pie_gs.php[/url]
OOPS.....answered my own question about 12% from my own link...... :) :)
BUT I consider healthcare and pensions part of that social program aspect of my post. Yea, pure WELFARE is 12 % but when you throw in health care which is medicare / medicaid you get to 36%. When you throw in pensions...you get to over 50%
The pensions I might have to not include since they should NOT be included since they are funded by specific taxes taken from a persons income. Much like FICA......
Later,
Geo
