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[quote=idbefishing;330113]Awww Common............20 keepers in a few hours from the bank on a public lake???? That a wee bit far fetch IMO. Anyhow, our fishes are still there it just the pressure have gone way up so fishing is not easy. If you're not KVD, don't expect to catch fish like KVD.[/quote]
You must have never fished Waveland Lake. GREAT bass fishin there. Just gotta know the right spot. I've got no need to lie to a bunch of people I don't even know.
Mike,
My comments are directed to every fishery in the state not only Boggs. But yes $12 a day for Boggs is too high. I can't see paying that much to go fishing at a "public" lake. I know Boggs is not funded by the state and has to make money to pay its bills but I think the fees have gotten high. When a tournament has to pay $100 to have the tourney then every boat in the tourney has to pay $12 to get into the park as well. So if a tourney draws 30 boats your talking $460 in fees for the park. I'm not going to argue the amount or what it should I'll just quite going like I have and many of the guys I know have.
My fees comment also applies to the state and the $20 boating fee. Yes thats not that much but when you see no improvement in the fisheries and DNE constantaly harrassing the fisherman and never checking the pleasure boaters I become a little hot about it. As I stated previously I pay enough in taxes, registrations and licenses I don't understand the additional needed fees.
I'll just keep my $20 and use it towards my license for Kentucky, or Illinois or Tennessee. Yes I'll pay more in gas to go to these places but I enjoy fishing their lakes more, have less pleasure boaters to deal with and catch more fish.
Charlie
[QUOTE=mister_fisher;330128]You must have never fished Waveland Lake. GREAT bass fishin there. Just gotta know the right spot. I've got no need to lie to a bunch of people I don't even know.[/QUOTE]
Yeah....been to Waveland and I still don't think you can catch 20 keepers in a few hours. If it was 20 short fish, I can believe but not the 14 inch variety.
Charlie,
I’m not going to try to change your mind on any of this; because I think you have made a valid choice in your selection of where to spend your outdoor recreation money. It is, after all, your money, and should be used for things that you enjoy. If you enjoy fishing out of state for whatever reason, I think it is great that you have that option available to you. The idea that a fee is “high” is actually a relative concept, I think. It may be too high for one person, for any of several reasons; while it may seem very reasonable to other people for different reasons. In the end it is just like any other purchase. All our us should only buy the things we wish to buy, based on how we perceive the value of the product or service compared to the amount of our resources it takes for us to obtain them.
I also get the sense that your perspective on this is pretty narrow. You seem to want more resources and effort directed to your specific interests, which seem to be fishing; but you want the extra resources to come at a price lower than the actual cost of providing them. Your apparent disdain for pleasure boaters indicates that you do not understand that without their numbers and dollars your costs would be much, much higher. It also seems to me some of your ideas about cost and value are based at least in part from a resentment of the fact that we have regulated tournament activity here.
As for the IDNR constantly harassing anglers while never checking pleasure boaters, I think you may be missing an important point there too. ICO’s patrol different lakes on different days for different purposes. Officers do not stop every boat on the lake, but they do watch every boat on the lake. Often they are checking fishing law compliance specifically. That is because they devote a considerable amount of time to enforcing game and fish laws, due to the commitment they have to the people who provide the dollars through license sales for them to do exactly that. So if you are fishing, they will probably see that and check your license and live well. And while they are checking those things of course they will also check your boating law compliance. Pleasure boaters do get checked too, but more often when they are doing something stupid.
At West Boggs things have evolved to the point where the ICO’s enforce the state laws, while our own Rangers and the Sheriff’s Department enforce local ordinances. The local ordinances don’t deal with fishing, so most of the extra effort is directed to pleasure boating enforcement.
You say you still fish West Boggs a few times per year. How about looking me up sometime and I’ll buy coffee and we can sit and discuss some of this?
[QUOTE=TR21Bassin;330134]Mike,
My comments are directed to every fishery in the state not only Boggs. But yes $12 a day for Boggs is too high. I can't see paying that much to go fishing at a "public" lake. I know Boggs is not funded by the state and has to make money to pay its bills but I think the fees have gotten high. When a tournament has to pay $100 to have the tourney then every boat in the tourney has to pay $12 to get into the park as well. So if a tourney draws 30 boats your talking $460 in fees for the park. I'm not going to argue the amount or what it should I'll just quite going like I have and many of the guys I know have.
My fees comment also applies to the state and the $20 boating fee. Yes thats not that much but when you see no improvement in the fisheries and DNE constantaly harrassing the fisherman and never checking the pleasure boaters I become a little hot about it. As I stated previously I pay enough in taxes, registrations and licenses I don't understand the additional needed fees.
I'll just keep my $20 and use it towards my license for Kentucky, or Illinois or Tennessee. Yes I'll pay more in gas to go to these places but I enjoy fishing their lakes more, have less pleasure boaters to deal with and catch more fish.
Charlie[/QUOTE]
Good GRIEF.............then FISH somewhere else.......you guys KILL ME.
* Triton 21 foot Bassboat $40,000
* Ford F-150 Powerstroke Diesel to pull it. $35,000
* Payoff to the "old lady" to go fishing. $10,000 (cumulative)
* Bitching about $20.00 in fees.............PRICELESS.
You THROW more money away one useless fishing CRAP than the fees. Get OVER IT, or give up fishing...........GOOD GRIEF.
Later,
Geo
Lake Sullivan, is worse than Boggs.It costs $16 for me to fish there and the fishing is not near as good. Needless to say I don't fish there very often.
Larry
Geo,
You've hit it right on the head, I choose to spend my money on my TR21, My F150 and my tackle. Don't have to pay the wife at all, she has no problem with me fishing whenever I want.
So therefore in your same mentality you shouldn't mind me griping over the fees that go to the state. Its my money and I choose how to spend it. If you don't want to hear it then don't read it. Someone voices thier opinion and because they don't match yours you try to belittle them and make the remarks that you do.
Mike,
As far are regulating tournaments I don't have a problem with it. I completely understand only have tournaments certain times of the year. Its the fees I don't agree with. As far as me just enjoy fishing I enjoy all types of things outdoors and if I'm not fishing I'm usually hunting or messing around with all my gear or my side business.
Your right on the pleasure boaters, I can't stand them. Most, I say most are rude and inconsiderate. As far as them being checked I've been on Boggs numerous times and seen every fisherman out there get checked but never once seen DNR or any other law enforcment check the pleasure boaters for proper flotation devices, fire extinguisher, etc.
Your also right that your not going to change my mind and every year that goes by it gripes me more to see the money that Indiana wastes on stupid crap and nothing going back in to improve our outdoor activities. This includes fishing, hunting and general use. A prime example is there have been hundreds of acres that people have been willing to sale to the Patoka River Wildlife Refuge system but they can't get the funding from the state or the federal government. Most is because our politicians won't ask for it.
Charlie
" A prime example is there have been hundreds of acres that people have been willing to sale to the Patoka River Wildlife Refuge system but they can't get the funding from the state or the federal government. Most is because our politicians won't ask for it."
This part I can agree with you on. There is absolutely no excuse for letting these thousand of acres get away from public use. Anyone who hasn't spent some time in this area needs to do so to see what is being lost to the public.
Charlie, Ths state would rather spend millions to buy the goosepond area and turn it into a swamp for mosquitos and bird watchers.
Larry
[quote=idbefishing;330136]Yeah....been to Waveland and I still don't think you can catch 20 keepers in a few hours. If it was 20 short fish, I can believe but not the 14 inch variety.[/quote]
I'm sorry if you don't have the same luck. I'm just sayin I don't think Indiana fishing is as bad as a lot of these people are making it out to be.
Mike:
I agree with you about the Career guys. I was not aware that you were or are a biologist?
Anyway the one thing that you said that I have to wonder about is the comment about the environmental aspect vs conservation. I personally see them as one in the same.
As a biologist you and I both know how important habitat is for animals. And protecting that habitat from environmental degradation is key to protecting the habitat.
You loose the habitat you loose the animal.
For example if some midnight dumper were to pull into West Bogs and dump waste oil into the lake the fish and other aquatic creatures are going to suffer.
So environmental protections has to go hand in hand with conservation issues.
In fact I got into my field because of my love of fishing and the great outdoors. My second choice for a career was going to be a Wildlife Biologist. I have already taken many of the courses necessary to get a BS in that field. I started out in Pre Veterinary Medicine and let me tell you that after two years in Pre vet you are able to go into any medical field including Wildlife Biology.
There is nothing more important to wildlife and fish than protecting the resource.
I really can't separate IDNR from IDEM as they both go hand in hand and each benefits the other.
However I do see where you are coming from in the budget differences. I would think that IDNR needs a bigger budget to do it's job properly.
And I agree with you about the lawyers and Suits controlling the agency with politics vs science. That's the part that makes me the maddest. I have college friends that work for IDNR as I said before and they do it for their love of the outdoor because they sure don't do that job for the money. There is no money in the IDNR budget to pay those guys what they need or deserve.
I also agree that Indiana's politicans need to do more for wildlife preservation and they need to do more to increase the fisheries in IN.
[quote=MikeAxsom;330117]Anyone here that knows me at all, knows that I have a high regard for the professionals of IDNR. And while I currently work in a county agency, I started my career with IDNR way back in 1972. I worked then as a biologist assistant out of the North Fork shop on Monroe Reservoir. That means I have been in this business now for 36 years. There is, I’m sad to say, some truth in many comments about a lack of initiative by the state over the last 30-40 years. But that comes from the political sector, not from to professional staff.
When I started there, IDNR was full of people that loved the outdoors and cherished each day they had an opportunity to mix their vocations and their avocations. Everyone in the central office hunted, fished and enjoyed the products of their labors along with the public. Today too much is run by political appointees, lawyers and bean counters. The momentum of the department is too often captured by the environmental politics of the moment. Before we blame that on the current Governor, I have watched the problem grow over the years under governors of both parties. I have often said that the if a young person is planning college today for a career in resource management, the most important science class to take is political science. A degree in law with a minor in political science would put one in a good position to do well in the modern system.
Don’t make the mistake of thinking the field people are part of that problem. They mostly hate it as much as the rest of us do. The biologists, ICON’s, and property managers are still there because they love the outdoors. But if you stroll up the food chain past the green/tan uniforms to the place where neckties grow, you will begin to encounter the professional bureaucrat. They feed on the back-pats and kudos from the political sector and tend to steer the organization more toward being an environmental protection unit rather than a natural resource conservation unit; because that is the politics of the day.
Is there a solution? Can it be turned around before it is too late? If I knew the answer to that I’d be rich by now.
Just my two cents.[/quote]
The differences between honest environmental protection and modern environmentalism as a political enterprise is one that all outdoor enthusiasts need to better understand. I consider myself an environmentalist in the sense that I understand and support the need to be proactive as a society in the long term health of our world. It is when contemporary political activism from the extreme left subverts science with emotional and/or the pseudo-religion that has evolved from those efforts that I shun being labeled as an environmentalist.
Moose1am, I fully agree that having an illegal dumper pour waste oil into this or any other lake would be a bad thing. I do not, however, see any correlation between that and having some nut sitting in a tree trying to prevent a developer from building a building on private land that the developer owns. I also don’t see how or why we allow the nuts of the modern environmental movements to have so much control over what we as a society can and can’t do. So in that sense I prefer the basic concept of conservation. I teach wildlife conservation as a hunter’s education instructor, and there we define the term “conservation” as “the wise use of our natural resources” to hundreds of students each year. I try to explain to them that wise use in not the same as unlimited use, but it is also not the same as no use. The focus should be on the term “wise” and not on the term “use”.
Back in the early 1970’s, while I was at Monroe, I recall having participated in some of the early wild turkey conservation efforts. Please understand that I was a young biologist’s assistant working mostly in waterfowl management at the time, and was in charge of nothing. I was mostly just cheap labor. But I was loaned out to help the biologist who was working on the turkey project by going over into Brown County State park to listen and count gobbler sounds as part of an inventory process. One of the things I learned there was that even in 1973-74, the park there was being eaten alive by whitetail deer as a direct result of the total hunting ban that was enacted in the name of environmental protection. It was years later that the state finally was able to break through the political morass that thought it necessary to destroy the environment to save it. The eventual limited harvest of deer that allowed the park to survive can to be in spite of environmentalists, not because of them.