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[QUOTE=vetbass;473057]GEO
forgot to ask in my previous post--seems you have some experience with float n fly on dale--would like to learn how---do you know a good guide who teaches float n fly
Thanks for any suggestions
Democrat or Republican guide it doesnt matter:D[/QUOTE]
There are a few good ones down at dale............
Keith Palmiero
Greg Brisendine
There is a big list here:
[url]http://www.smalljaw.com/forum/default.asp[/url]
Later,
Geo
Well your right about having a choice to believe what I want. That's what makes this a great place to live. I'm just not satisfied that what you say is the truth, no offense but I choose to not take it as truth but as how you see it...an opinion.
I have heard and read more stuff that backs up what I said than what you say. I believe it comes down to what data you choose to believe.
This could turn into a battle of websites, data and articles and in the end you will believe what you want.
Now I don't think that there is a person on here who says to do away with gubment assistance. What is a fact is that it is corrupt. It's funny you choose to paint the people on gubment assistance as fine people who need it, some illegals who cheat the system and a few other cheaters and people or defraud the system.
While I see it as a system that is broke and full of people who take advantage of it. Common sense of gubment programs shows how corrupt they bevome I deal with it in business all the time and I'm sure you have seen it. I have never seen a news report on how well these programs work but there have been many of how corrupt it is. What was the community organizer group associated with obamy that was found to promote people to defraud the system? But this too is just another topic of what data you choose to believe.
[QUOTE=GeoFisher;473080]I still don't get it.............PROVIDE a link, any link.......
AND I can GUARANTEE you that my effective tax rate is no where near 40%. EVEN with the double taxation on various things. I still don't get it.
How about you BREAK IT DOWN.
I don't buy that all the various other taxes are 40%. If so, then my effective tax rate is more like 60%.............Yea, I call BS.
Later,
Geo[/QUOTE]
these figures come from an article found on the alternet website--the article sites its sources as studies done by the CBO and by a study conducted by a pair of boston university econimists Lawrence Kotlikoff and David Rapson--and no i dont personally know these economists--you will just have to trust as i did that these economists are upstanding educators who have produced a study based in something close to reality
im quite sure if you spent enough time researching on the internet you could find some evidence that counters every claim made in the article, by the cbo and by the university economists as you could also find proof that santa claus and easter bunny are real--if you dont believe these claims you can watch any number of news programs--ive seen probably a dozen or more segments over the years on various shows (except fox news) explaining the truth about that bottom 46%
even if all these assumptions are wrong and you or I pay more in taxes than those 46% are you really wanting to ask these folks to pay more in taxes when they often times have the terrible decision of giving up food heat or maybe their medications because they cant afford all 3 on the small amount of gov assist they do recieve--i am quite thankful the good lord has blessed me and in no way mind paying more in taxes if needed to help that 46%--you never know you or i may become part of that 46% someday and i hope both of us would be extremely thankful for that gov assist--if you dont believe me go ask someone living in squallor in mexico or somolia how blessed we are to have a gov that tries to take care of its people
each one of us must use our intellectual abilities to decide what we believe and dont believe--thank god we live in a country that allows us to make that choice
Thanks for the link to the guide website and good luck at dale
[QUOTE]these figures come from an article found on the alternet website--the article sites its sources as studies done by the CBO and by a study conducted by a pair of boston university econimists Lawrence Kotlikoff and David Rapson--and no i dont personally know these economists--you will just have to trust as i did that these economists are upstanding educators who have produced a study based in something close to reality[/QUOTE]
and YET you still refuse to provide the link??
I don't get it.
And I've done a little research myself on this, and I stand by what I've said.........NO ONE I know comes near the 40% effective rate you state.......Do you??
Later,
Geo
[QUOTE=GeoFisher;473108]and YET you still refuse to provide the link??
I don't get it.
And I've done a little research myself on this, and I stand by what I've said.........NO ONE I know comes near the 40% effective rate you state.......Do you??
Later,
Geo[/QUOTE]
[URL]http://www.alternet.org/story/150625/tax_day_question%3A_who%27s_paying_what/?page=entire[/URL]
I paid around 30% fed income tax along with state and city taxes--vehicle tax--boat tax-property tax-sales tax-soc secur tax-city school tax--capital gain tax-various business taxes and probably a handful of other taxes i cant think of at the moment
do you think i hit the 40% mark
[QUOTE=vetbass;473111][URL]http://www.alternet.org/story/150625/tax_day_question%3A_who%27s_paying_what/?page=entire[/URL]
I paid around 30% fed income tax along with state and city taxes--vehicle tax--boat tax-property tax-sales tax-soc secur tax-city school tax--capital gain tax-various business taxes and probably a handful of other taxes i cant think of at the moment
do you think i hit the 40% mark[/QUOTE]
I finally see where you're going with this, and I can see where someone could end up paying more in taxes, especially since you're going to lump in property taxes and vehicle taxes.
I really don't get hit too bad there, because I've NEVER purchased a new car, and my house is a very modest, AFFORDABLE house.
But I guess someone making 50k and living above their means with 2 30k cars and a a 150k house might be paying more in taxes........OTHERWISE, your example doesn't hold water.
In my own example, I have to try pretty dang hard to come up with 40%. REALLY HARD.....but hey I guess we will have to agree to disagree........
[QUOTE=vetbass;473078]the fact is that the right has repeatedly tried to fool the american people with this lie and have been very effective at this--if you choose to deny the truth than that is your right
yes that 40% applies to everybody even those on gov assistance--to my knowledge those who recieve something like welfare checks do not pay direct tax on that money because its considered income and that income does not amount to enough to qualify to be taxable--however these folks are still on the hook for all the other various taxes
im sure there are illegals who skirt the system and pay nothing just like there are legal citizens who find ways to steal from the system--however i have seen folks on the right villify everone on gov assistance way to often--the vast majority of folks on gov assist are folks with legit reasons for being in that situation and that assistance still leaves most of these folks living in squaller--you can take any large program or large group of people ever created in the history of the world and you will find some kind of cheating and fraud involved--thats just part of it
the right the left or anyone in this country should be thankful that gov assist exists because without it this country would implode on itself in short order[/QUOTE]
--
It does sound a bit of a stretch to me that the folks on the lowest end of the totem pole are paying 40% in taxes given that some of these people may be earning in the 12000 dollar range and then are getting maybe 5 or 6 thousand dollar refunds in addition to what is being withheld from their wages...It would seem the earned income and child tax credits might bring their yearly income to maybe 16 or 17 thousand dollars and they would have to be paying a total of all those credits plus 40% of their earned wages to be at that 40% mark... I believe if some folks had their way and reduced or eliminated the public assistance then they themselves would not be living in a country that they likes as much as the one we all live in today, there are a lot of countries on this planet like that and I for one am glad we aren't one of them.
[QUOTE=vetbass;473111][URL]http://www.alternet.org/story/150625/tax_day_question%3A_who%27s_paying_what/?page=entire[/URL]
I paid around 30% fed income tax along with state and city taxes--vehicle tax--boat tax-property tax-sales tax-soc secur tax-city school tax--capital gain tax-various business taxes and probably a handful of other taxes i cant think of at the moment
do you think i hit the 40% mark[/QUOTE]
Very interesting and informative article. The quoted 40% rate may be a little high but if anyone took the time to read the article then you could see just how much someones income could be taxed.
I tried pointing out why nearly half of all Americans don't pay any federal income taxes on here before but it's just to good of a talking point for the right to let it go.
Here's a quick read on it.
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/why-do-half-of-all-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/2011/07/11/gIQA8olBuI_blog.html[/url]
It is easy to post ******** from an economist that makes assumptions and then tries to sell is as "what is right".
Here are the TAX TABLES for the past billion years.
[url]http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html[/url]
HAVE FUN.
It is a FLAT OUT LIE that folks making 15k a year has had a 51% increase in income taxes.
The Bush Tax cuts in 2000 and 2002 lowered their rates by 50%........imagine that.
HOW the HELL is that a 51% increase.
Later,
Geo
[QUOTE=GeoFisher;473126]It is easy to post ******** from an economist that makes assumptions and then tries to sell is as "what is right".
Here are the TAX TABLES for the past billion years.
[URL]http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html[/URL]
HAVE FUN.
It is a FLAT OUT LIE that folks making 15k a year has had a 51% increase in income taxes.
The Bush Tax cuts in 2000 and 2002 lowered their rates by 50%........imagine that.
HOW the HELL is that a 51% increase.
Later,
Geo[/QUOTE]
the author of the article i sited used an inflation calculator that can be accessed from within the article--however i purposely did not use that 51% figure because it didnt look right to me either--the figures used on the next several lines appeared to add up using that calculator
most of the figures i sited from the article were taken from the CBO study--but im sure if you looked hard enough there is somebody who would disagree with those studies as well
my original point was that the right keep misleading people by saying that 46% of people dont pay any taxes
the exact percentage of income they pay in taxes could be argued from now till the cows come home
however the percent the 46% pay and percent that the average middle classer pays is at worst in the ball park with each other
[QUOTE=vetbass;473138]the author of the article i sited used an inflation calculator that can be accessed from within the article--however i purposely did not use that 51% figure because it didnt look right to me either--the figures used on the next several lines appeared to add up using that calculator
my original point was that the right keep misleading people by saying that 46% of people dont pay any taxes
[/QUOTE]
DUDE.....you post a LEFTIST site, and then quote numbers from a LEFTIST site, and then back those number up with a tool written and developed on a LEFTIST site..........
RIGHT.
Look at the tax tables, and YOU TELL ME how they get to those conclusions. While I'm certainly not an expert on pretty much nothing, I can look at the details and make an informed decision.
With regards to the TAXES they actually pay.. EVERYONE knows they pay taxes. City, Locality, State, Sales, Property.......Fuel. I've never said they don't pay taxes. I've SAID they don't pay Income Taxes. And INCOME TAXES are the taxes that are used to pay for most of the programs they USE.
Progressive taxes are unfair taxes.......A simple solution to all my bitching about taxes is to simply make EVERYONE pay something. Hell, I will settle for eliminating the EARNED income credit instead....After all Earned Income is simply a giveaway of MY MONEY to someone who didn't EARN IT.
Later,
Geo