Indiana tournament fees

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-06 AT 05:03PM (EST)[/font][p]I agree with you Eric. It just seems that there are lots of anti-bass tourney folks out there. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen live bait fishermen keeping any and everything they catch. In KY the DNR guys will check livewells on the water and off the water, yet they are not trying to re-coup any money, whether that money is in wages for extra DNR officers or whatever. in Indiana, I have never had my livewell checked. I have never seen a DNR officer at a tourney weigh-in, the only time I se them is to collect parking fees.

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-06 AT 05:08PM (EST)[/font][p]>>I don't know. Probably not. I
>>do know that our overall
>>revenue from fishing and boating
>>has grown by almost 80%
>>since we began to regulate
>>tournaments. Do you have any
>>ideas about how we might
>>get that back from tournament
>>anglers or promoters if we
>>removed those regulations?
>
>Mike, this comment reminded me of
>something my departed dad used
>to tell me. After he
>retired from the Postal Service,
>he worked for the KY
>Depeart of Transportation. He specifically
>worked on the Toll roads.
>He told me he once
>got a look at the
>operational budget and was assounded
>to learn that KY paid
>out $1 for every 50¢
>the took in.
>
>So how did your remark remind
>me of this? I was
>considering the statement that IN
>wanted to recoup their cost
>of tournaments, you mention relatively
>new regulation of the tournaments.
>Sounds like the department is
>now trying to find a
>way to pay for the
>department that is regulating the
>tournaments.


>
>Is that so?
>
>Danny

Danny, I was actually trying to show that regulating tournaments has improved overall boating/fishing revenue due to increased traffic from other users who appear to enjoy their time on the water more without the tournament bustle. And I wondered if we were to go back to unregulated tournaments like the previous poster seemed to advocate, how he would propose to replace the lost revenue. I don’t really ever see going back unregulated tournaments being in the cards, so the questions was intended to be rhetorical. Maybe rhetorical questions are too complicated for some folks in this setting.

Mike,

I think you should talk to some of the local business in your area and see if they can tell a diffrence in a weekend with a tournament and a weekend without?

I work in the foodservice industry and call on some of the business' in your area. I know that there is an impact, but since you don't see their trafic comps, I don't think you are qualified to make those statements. Keep managing your fish, your good at that.

Furthermore, being in the foodservice industry I know of several operators that have opened early to service the tournament anglers that are coming into their area. I know that a major fast food location will be opening up at 430 after I asked him to stand outside his restaraunt and watch the traffic go buy on their way to the lake that early in Bloomington. I don't think the Jet skiers are rolling in that early.

I have never gone to a tournament at monroe and not seen guys filling up their boats at the circle K at 46 & 446, but maybe only 1% of them are fishing the tournament that happens to be going out of the ramps right down the street.

Last time I checked areas in KY were still paying for IN people to come down and hold tournaments on some of the lakes "rough river" So I guess they do that because tournaments don't generate any money for the area right? I guess those hotels around rough river would be full all the time without tournamnts there right?


One last thing the person that made the comment about the govenor using your fishing money for other stuff needs to go back to civics 101. The govenor does not control the budget the state reps and senate control the purse strings. While my man Mitch may appoint who runs the DNR he has no control over its budget or how it appropiates its monies. want to bitch about those things go directly to the source the people you elected to rep you from your town.

I would say this state does pretty well with tourism, maybe not generated by the water ways, but I would put our tourism up against Kentucky's anyday. Indy 500 Brickyard 400 F1 race, Big 10 tournaments NCAA tournaments, really don't think KY can hold a candle to the money generated from tourism from those events alone, much less other events that occure like conventions.

I could care less if you win or not, but you are there to try and win, so bottom line is you are trying to make money. Even if only 6% take home money.

Another post listed something about costing so much to enter to get a $1000 check, which will cause lower turnout. Since you are fishing for money it seems like a business type setting to me, why not combine many of these rinky dink tournies, more people, more money, since that is what you are concerned about.


I am not against tourny fishing one bit, I don't think tourny fisherman cause any more harm to the fish than recreational fisherman. My concern is using our resources for your profit, so I feel you should pay more, maybe the costs are getting out of hand, but you as the tourny people need to do something about rather than coming on a chat forum complaining about it and not taking any actions with the people who come up with the ideas for the fees.

quote from Crappie
__________________________________________________________-
"I am not against tourny fishing one bit, I don't think tourny fisherman cause any more harm to the fish than recreational fisherman. My concern is using our resources for your profit, so I feel you should pay more, maybe the costs are getting out of hand, but you as the tourny people need to do something about rather than coming on a chat forum complaining about it and not taking any actions with the people who come up with the ideas for the fees. "
_______________________________________________________________

YOUR RESOURCE? It's my resource and everyone else too. It's mine and I use it how I like it and you have that right too. If you feel like we're making profit and you're not then why don't you start participating and stop hating. Nobody forced you to not participate!

I think what your going to see is less tournament people using the resource. I know myself only fish 1 or 2 tourneys a year in Indiana DNR property and that will go to 0 next year. I do use other county resources and will continue to do so because they are maintained better and actually care about the fisheries. I think you'll see most tournament trails move out of state. Watch what that does to the local businesses and the fisheries as well. If their not being utilized then the state will care even less than they do now.

Just like Daleo said earlier the only time I've ever seen a DNR officer at Patoka or Monroe is collecting the permit money at the ramp. Never seen one on the water check or do anything. In fact I've been checked more times at West Boggs than the rest of Indiana combined.

Charlie

Mike,

As an avid tournament fisherman, especially at Boggs, I have no problem with paying the usage fee/permit fee you require. I actually like the fact that only 1 tournament per day can be going on. It reduces the pressure on the lake and cuts down on the traffic.

Boggs actually seems to care about their fishery and how it will be in the future. I think that's my biggest complaint witht the state of Indiana. I've lived here for 6 years and have never seen a DNR officer at Patoka or Monroe except at the ramp collecting launch fees. I couldn't tell you one thing they've done to improve the fishery or the success of the fisherman.

I do know from experience that Boggs does creat structure for their fish. They monitor the catches of each of the tournaments and I've seen you out there talking to fishermen.

I don't think any tournament fisherman would have a problem paying an additional fee at a DNR lake if we could see some progress in the way they manage their fisheries. Maybe they should come and take notes on how Bogg's is managed.

Charlie

We're not talking about all other tourism events just fishing. But I'm sure KY can come closer than you think with things such as KY Derby, UK Basketball, Sparta Racetrack and misc other events.

I would say that with KY's various fisheries and the amount of tournaments held throughout the state that alone would compete with all of Indiana's tourism. Just look at the number of big tournaments that have been on KY Lake so far this year, FLW, Stren Series, BASS Elite, BASS Tour and numerous other 200 boat field tournaments. This fall there will be multiple 200-400 boat field tournaments going on every weekend through September and October. I also know that multiple chambers in the lake area pay out large sums of money to organizations to get them to come their areas because of the amount of money generated.

Charlie

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 07:54AM (EST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 07:50*AM (EST)[/font]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 07:47*AM (EST)[/font]

Charlie

I’m responding to your post, but this also applies to some of the comments I see from some of the other guys here. I’ve been told to stick with what I know, so I’m going to try to do that without too much opinion thrown in.

When you make such clear distinctions between West Boggs and the IDNR properties, you may not be aware of all the facts. It is true that West Boggs is a county property. But it is still a “public water” and that means it is still subject to State fish and Wildlife regulations. I’d love to be able to take credit for the total fisheries management here, because it is a great program. But the real expertise and all the science is provided by the IDNR Fisheries office out of Avoca, which also manages Monroe and all of the other public water fisheries in the district. Maybe our county agency is more involved with some related issues than some other properties, but if so we are involved in a great fisheries management plan developed by IDRN, not by us.

This does not carry over to the tournament regulations. The new state regs apply only to state managed lakes, and do not include West Boggs. Our tournament regs are local. This is not by-in-large, a fisheries issue with us, but a matter of limiting the ability of any single user group to dominate the use of the resource at the expense of other user groups. We want to allow tournament fishing, but not to the exclusion of others. That is why we limit the number of tournaments and close that use in the summer. If here are fisheries benefits to that as well, we welcome them; but that is just a bonus.

Most people don’t realize that for more than 10 years now, West Boggs had been using a 100% self funded management model. As opposed to tax supported facilities, we pay attention to user group mixtures, total revenue generation, focusing improvements on areas that people are willing to pay for, etc. So if it seems like we are less willing to be impressed that tournaments provide monies for some good causes elsewhere, it is because none of that ever helps us accomplish our mission. This new management model is showing a lot of promise. While everyone here has seen a series of budget cuts in most local, state and federal parks and recreation organizations over the same ten year period, our budget has more than doubled in that time. With no tax dollars.

We have done that by working to build our business traffic in those areas where people are most willing to pay us for services. I have to tell you that tournament fishing in general has shown the least interest in doing that. I never have a running battle with any other user group over fees. It is uncanny how many times we see people of limited means with an old car dripping oil and kids hanging out all the windows. They are often counting quarters and dimes to find the gate fee, and always smile and thank us for the opportunity to take the kids fishing. But we can almost tell when a guy turns in off the highway with a $40K truck pulling a $50K bass boat with a big motor, he is going to be foaming at the mouth about paying the gate fee. They just almost never seem to be really happy about much of anything. The lenght of this thread is an indicator of this same thing. And now there is going to be another petetion, and about what? Better management? New Ramps? Improved Habitat? Nope; NO NEW FEES! And you guys wonder why the IDNR guys don't come on these boards and join the discussions.

Mike,

As mentioned before, I personally and I know several others as well don't have a problem with the additional fees as long as they are being used wisely. At Boggs, we can see where these funds are being used to improve the overall park as well as the fishing.

I enjoy fishing Boggs and think it is probably the best maintained fishery in Indiana. That's why I want to help out with the release boat. Anything we can do to improve and not damage the quality of fish.

With the IDNR I think I can speak for most of these guys where we see very little if any improvement with anything. That is the major complaint I have. I have no problems paying additional money if I know what its being used for and they can show the improvements. It's pretty sad when I live 45 minutes from Patoka but would rather drive 2 hours down to Barkley or KY lake to fish.

Charlie

everyone needs to face it. Indiana is the biggest rip off joint of any state in our area. Our fees have continued to rise over the last 15 years and what kinds of improvements have been made to any of our state run facilities? I have been fishing tournaments for over 25 years and take Monroe for example...all of the fees have increased, everything from the the park entrance to launch fees to camping fees. I was up there last weekend and I swear some of the campsites have the same picnic tables on them that they had 20 years ago. Still have the same restrooms with the same stalls and mirrors and it costs 3 times more to camp on the same site as it did 20 years ago.
As far as the revenue that is generated goes look at some of the outdoor or tournament friendly states and read about the impacts that tournaments have on their local economy. It is huge! YOu go to Tennessee or Alabama and you are welcomed with open arms and invited back year after year. They want our business in their areas because they know it benefits them. The thing with Indiana is that they cater to the rich blowhards that want to set out in the middle of the lake on their houseboats and drink their fruity drinks and not have the waves rocking them...you know the fat old men with their 25 year old girlfriends that come out waving their hands and throwing a fit everytime there is a ripple on the water!!
All I can say is that Indiana needs to DITCH MITCH and get a good old hunting and fishing governor that appreciates the outdoors

Charlie,
Thanks for your kudos about West Boggs. In your last post you may have started to uncover some of the causes of frustration many of you guys many have with IDNR. You keep talking about wanting to help with fisheries management, and that is a good cause for an angler to want to support. But a lot of the complaints are about property issues, ramps, entrance fees, improvements, etc. Other complaints seems to focus on enforcement issues. Someone here, maybe you, said they had been stopped and checked more on West Boggs than all the other lake combined.

There is a whole range of managmeent dynamics within IDNR. The Division of Fish and Wildlife manages all public water fisheriesm including West Boggs and all the state reservoirs. But they have nothing at all to do with management of state reservoir properties. That is now the division of State Parks and Reservoirs. When I worked there, "back in the day" as the kids say, those were seperate divisions. I worked for Reservoirs. Reservoir propertty management was then very closely aligned to fish and wildlife management goals. I'm not sure that is the same today as Park management concepts tend to rule the new combined division. It just amy be a real factor that I still tend to manage more the way I leared, which was under the old IDNR Division of Reservoirs model; which is mor epro hunting and fishing and less tree hugger friendly.

In the enforcement issues, the guys and gals in the ICO uniforms that stop you on West Boggs are the same guys and gals who would stop you on Patoka. They are IDNR officers. They don't work for me, althogh I'm very glad to have them on our water. I suspect you may find that even one ICO on the water is more likely to find you on 622 acres of wter than on 10,000 acres or so.