Ethanol15 Approved!

[QUOTE=Moveon;430241]Amen. I myself like to have clean water to drink and fish from.
If not for agencies like the USEPA or the Board of health we would be living in a cess pool still just like in Mexico or China.

I like to know that somone is watching out for the waters and the fish I catch to eat are safe to eat and not contaminated with toxic metals etc.

There is nothing wrong with protecting the environment that we all have to work and play in.[/QUOTE]

Very good points! To not want an agency to protect the environment and our resources is just ignorant. Go to any country that doesn't have an agency like the EPA, and see how fast you get the green-apple quick-step.

The amount of energy needed to produce a gallon of ethanol is more than the gallon of ethanol. This is also true with the amount of coals it take to pruduce electricity, much of the energy escapes as heat. It tkes more electricity to charge a battery than the battery will hold. The point is manufactoring a portable fuel, ethanol is a portable fuel.

Will it replace gas? Probably not. Supplement gas? maybe so.

I would support research, there are a lot of other crops to make ethanol from, possibly seaweed.

I also like the bio diesel ideas.

Anyway I'm going to use what my motor requires (regular gas) and hope we come up with reliable alteratives. Maybe enough Flex fuel vehicles will keep the oil produces in check.

Forgot about byproduct issues. Ethanol-silage for cattle feed, coal-coal ash ponds.

Oil does have a +. Oil-gas, diesel fuel and refined oil.

[QUOTE=MagikSmallie;430239]here are some Findings from the above mentioned Link:

o An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels and costs $347 per acre, according to Pimentel's analysis. Thus, even before corn is converted to ethanol, the feedstock costs $1.05 per gallon of ethanol.

o The energy economics get worse at the processing plants, where the grain is crushed and fermented. As many as three distillation steps are needed to separate the 8 percent ethanol from the 92 percent water. Additional treatment and energy are required to produce the 99.8 percent pure ethanol for mixing with gasoline. o Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way," Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU."

o Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price."

o Most economic analyses of corn-to-ethanol production overlook the costs of environmental damages, which Pimentel says should add another 23 cents per gallon. "Corn production in the U.S. erodes soil about 12 times faster than the soil can be reformed, and irrigating corn mines groundwater 25 percent faster than the natural recharge rate of ground water. The environmental system in which corn is being produced is being rapidly degraded. Corn should not be considered a renewable resource for ethanol energy production, especially when human food is being converted into ethanol."

o The approximately $1 billion a year in current federal and state subsidies (mainly to large corporations) for ethanol production are not the only costs to consumers, the Cornell scientist observes. Subsidized corn results in higher prices for meat, milk and eggs because about 70 percent of corn grain is fed to livestock and poultry in the United States Increasing ethanol production would further inflate corn prices, Pimentel says, noting: "In addition to paying tax dollars for ethanol subsidies, consumers would be paying significantly higher food prices in the marketplace."

Nickels and dimes aside, some drivers still would rather see their cars fueled by farms in the Midwest than by oil wells in the Middle East, Pimentel acknowledges, so he calculated the amount of corn needed to power an automobile:

o The average U.S. automobile, traveling 10,000 miles a year on pure ethanol (not a gasoline-ethanol mix) would need about 852 gallons of the corn-based fuel. This would take 11 acres to grow, based on net ethanol production. This is the same amount of cropland required to feed seven Americans.

o If all the automobiles in the United States were fueled with 100 percent ethanol, a total of about 97 percent of U.S. land area would be needed to grow the corn feedstock. Corn would cover nearly the total land area of the United States.[/QUOTE]

Maji....I swear I'm not trying to pick on you....Just discussion. This study indicates it takes 140 gallons of fuel to grow one acre of corn?? That just seems high. I bush hog, cut and bale 80 acres of hill farm and I don't use 140 gallons.

[QUOTE=MagikSmallie;430239]here are some Findings from the above mentioned Link:

o An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels and costs $347 per acre, according to Pimentel's analysis. Thus, even before corn is converted to ethanol, the feedstock costs $1.05 per gallon of ethanol.

o The energy economics get worse at the processing plants, where the grain is crushed and fermented. As many as three distillation steps are needed to separate the 8 percent ethanol from the 92 percent water. Additional treatment and energy are required to produce the 99.8 percent pure ethanol for mixing with gasoline. o Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way," Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU."

o Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price."

o Most economic analyses of corn-to-ethanol production overlook the costs of environmental damages, which Pimentel says should add another 23 cents per gallon. "Corn production in the U.S. erodes soil about 12 times faster than the soil can be reformed, and irrigating corn mines groundwater 25 percent faster than the natural recharge rate of ground water. The environmental system in which corn is being produced is being rapidly degraded. Corn should not be considered a renewable resource for ethanol energy production, especially when human food is being converted into ethanol."

o The approximately $1 billion a year in current federal and state subsidies (mainly to large corporations) for ethanol production are not the only costs to consumers, the Cornell scientist observes. Subsidized corn results in higher prices for meat, milk and eggs because about 70 percent of corn grain is fed to livestock and poultry in the United States Increasing ethanol production would further inflate corn prices, Pimentel says, noting: "In addition to paying tax dollars for ethanol subsidies, consumers would be paying significantly higher food prices in the marketplace."

Nickels and dimes aside, some drivers still would rather see their cars fueled by farms in the Midwest than by oil wells in the Middle East, Pimentel acknowledges, so he calculated the amount of corn needed to power an automobile:

o The average U.S. automobile, traveling 10,000 miles a year on pure ethanol (not a gasoline-ethanol mix) would need about 852 gallons of the corn-based fuel. This would take 11 acres to grow, based on net ethanol production. This is the same amount of cropland required to feed seven Americans.

o If all the automobiles in the United States were fueled with 100 percent ethanol, a total of about 97 percent of U.S. land area would be needed to grow the corn feedstock. Corn would cover nearly the total land area of the United States.[/QUOTE]

There is NO WAY that is right. If it cost farmers $347 an acre to plant/grow/harvest an acre of corn, they couldn't stay in business. Is this study trying to factor in if the farmer had to start from scratch? If he had to buy the land, equipment, seed, pay for workers, and other things you would have to factor in if you were starting from scratch, then maybe this study is right. But there is no way otherwise.

I planted an acre of corn for deer this year, and after fuel, seed, fertilizer, and maintanence to the tractor, it cost me about $40. I could have planted a lot more than one acre, and it wouldn't have cost me much more.

[QUOTE=MagikSmallie;429477][url]http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/conservation/news/story?page=b_con_EthanolControversy_101014[/url]

The :mad:bama administration has approved production and sale of gasoline with up to 15 percent ethanol for 2007 and newer motor vehicles.[/QUOTE]

All you have to do is add Marine Stabil, it takes care of the ethanol problem. Use it on every fill up, and I actually add more than is needed just in case. Its not very expensive.

here is a link to their information site about ethanol
[URL="http://www.goldeagle.com/engine_care/411onethanol.aspx"]http://www.goldeagle.com/engine_care/411onethanol.aspx[/URL]

ole top

[QUOTE=MagikSmallie;429477][url]http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/bassmaster/conservation/news/story?page=b_con_EthanolControversy_101014[/url]

The :)bama administration has approved production and sale of gasoline with up to 15 percent ethanol for 2007 and newer motor vehicles.[/QUOTE]

I fixed it for you.:)