Fish Kill on Lake Cumberland

*sigh* There is no blame to anyone here. I defend the tourney guys who carry bass around in a hot livewell all day just to weigh them and release them just as I do someone's right to go out and catch and release small Cumberland stripers on top. It's legal so that's what I support. As with the small stripers and the bass, some make it some don't. Normally, it's not that big of a deal with Cumberland stripers. But just as with the tourney guy who says all the bass from the hot livewell will make it is falsely qualifying non-fact, it's equally non-fact to assume that a striper of any size this time of year caught by any method will swim off and be a happy, living camper. I think StriperNut's 20% is off slightly this time of year. With the stripers seaking 60 foot plus water, I would estimate the die rate at 40% or higher regardless of top water or deep. There is a reason they are that deep, and even the smaller ones have to go there for comfort. That means they have to work that much harder to surface feed.

I've been fishing Cumberland since I was a kid. I've been fishing for stripers since I was old enough to buy my own bait tank. I'm now 49. I wish I had a nickle for every minute I've spent reading about, studying, experementing and fishing for stripers. I wish I had a nickle for every nickle I've spent on boats, equipment, gear and tackle used to chase them. If I added it all up, I'd be sick today because I'd probably have enough money to retire early. I'm not unique in this at all and I bring it up only to point out how deeply I care for this fishery. There are a lot of people who have a life long passion with Cumberland striped bass. Right now, many of us are worried sick over the affects the draw downs have had on the striper population. While I have no scientific facts to back up the point, it seems quite obvious by the un-even catch rates that the mature populations on Cumberland have suffered greatly with the last two summer fish die offs. So I'll not appologize for posting over and over that preserving these smaller classes is key to the future of the Cumberland striper fishery. If people do not wish to read it, I highly suggest you skip my posts on it. But it's my personal experience that if I feel someone else has stepped on my toes, I probably did something to put my feet in the wrong place.

Duayne, Stripernut, give it up. Trying to inform in a polite way on this board has became useless and futile. Guys like Jeff aka stripernut, Duayne, Andrew aka APB and others have fished for the Stripes most of their adult lives and have taken the time to care for and learn the ways of the Striper. Nobody is trying to bust anybodies chops just gently inform and educate.

The attitude of it's just my dozen fish, and the next guys dozen and the next guys dozen and the next giys dozen, there is where the damage collects. Wait another month and they will really be jumping, then you can catch them little short fish all you want and they will swim away happy, well mad.....but alive and stay that way probably. Oh by the way, before the rain the water was bad quality for Cumberland in my opinion. Foam floating in spots with a smell over near Grider and surrounding creeks.

Rich,

This is a discussion board. Part of the use of the board is to inform. No one was attaching you at all. Folks were just trying to inform you and others who read the thread of potential problems associated with catching/releasing even small stripers right now. Let the water cool and they'll do just fine. Would your dozen stripers do anything to impact the population? No. The problem is that many others see this and start targeting the smaller stripers thinking there will be no issues with striper mortality, and soon you have several hundred stripers dying each day. Over time, that adds up and will have an impact on the future striper fishery. One of the things that I have found useful on the boards in the years I've been here is what I have learned about various species and how to better take care of the fishery. I'm still learning things. When I make posts like the one above it’s not to berate someone for going out and enjoying themselves, it’s to provide some information that they may not be aware of.

Andrew

Before I start, just a reminder this is my OPINION:
Can someone answer me this (as if I don't know the answer already), do SOME fish die in cooler water temps? To insuate that fish don't die in cooler temps is misleading. I've seen 'em floatin in November from "jump" fishin. I know...I know LESS of them die. Survival rates are better. I have been informed many times from MHall about, " Hope you released those smallmouths, it takes 'em a long time to get big...etc.." after posting catching 5 keepers or something. Informative....maybe...opinions...just what it is....opinions. Our departmant of Fish and Wildlife does a great job and when they tell me NOT to eat a smallmouth..I won't, but until then IF I want to keep some to eat...I will within the legal limit.
Anyway, my point is as a neutral person on this particular subject..I see it as criticizing and not as informative. Opinions are opinions, NOT proven facts. While everyone here will admit that there is a greater CHANCE of mortality in higher water temps it doesn't give someone the right to criticize others for doing what they love within the law. You know maybe Rich and others release ALL of their fish. Do we all do this?.....I don't think so. So when we all keep just one to eat we have killed alot of fish collectively (Not a MAYBE or an opinion but a for sure knife in the gut dead fish). Rich, good luck in your future fishing out west. Stripernut, always look forward to your calls and text reports. Anyways a great discussion and remember to always treat others with respect on the water or not.
Tim
bassmaster

[QUOTE=bassmaster;464945]Before I start, just a reminder this is my OPINION:
Can someone answer me this (as if I don't know the answer already), do SOME fish die in cooler water temps? To insuate that fish don't die in cooler temps is misleading. I've seen 'em floatin in November from "jump" fishin. I know...I know LESS of them die. Survival rates are better. I have been informed many times from MHall about, " Hope you released those smallmouths, it takes 'em a long time to get big...etc.." after posting catching 5 keepers or something. Informative....maybe...opinions...just what it is....opinions. Our departmant of Fish and Wildlife does a great job and when they tell me NOT to eat a smallmouth..I won't, but until then IF I want to keep some to eat...I will within the legal limit.
Anyway, my point is as a neutral person on this particular subject..I see it as criticizing and not as informative. Opinions are opinions, NOT proven facts. While everyone here will admit that there is a greater CHANCE of mortality in higher water temps it doesn't give someone the right to criticize others for doing what they love within the law. You know maybe Rich and others release ALL of their fish. Do we all do this?.....I don't think so. So when we all keep just one to eat we have killed alot of fish collectively (Not a MAYBE or an opinion but a for sure knife in the gut dead fish). Rich, good luck in your future fishing out west. Stripernut, always look forward to your calls and text reports. Anyways a great discussion and remember to always treat others with respect on the water or not.
Tim
bassmaster[/QUOTE]

My God it's hopeless, told ya fellas. AGAIN NOBODY was being critical of the guy. Re-read them carefully and tell where in this thread they were slamming Rich or even slightly getting on the guy, seriously show us???

Also I would like you to show me where I have ''MANY TIMES'' got on you about sqaut. Show me from the archives and I'll shut up. If you are gonna single me out Pal, back it up with some facts. Pull the posts up where I have asked you more than one time about your smallmouth, and I bet it was done respectfully to. Show me if you are gonna single me out like that.......

[QUOTE=RICHYD4U;464831]I wasn't directing my response soley upon you bud...just venting a little. I'm glad a 20" fish doesn't do anything for you...guess that is what happens when you routinely catch 30+" fish. :rolleyes: As for me, I just flat out enjoy fishing...and if I go somewhere far away from home, once a year, and 20" fish is all that is biting my line...you better believe I will continue to throw out there in hopes of either catching the same, or bigger! :p

Not sure why grown men have to voice their opinions when their opinions are not asked for...do people honestly think (like you said Stripernut) that their opinion is going to trump the opinion of the person they are trying to force their opinion upon? We are all men...we make our own choices...as long as they are legal...mind your own business. Like you said, the only opinion that matters is your own. ;)

No more reports from me.....other than NRL of course! :o Shoot, I'm out of here anyways in three weeks. Adios! :cool:

-Rich[/QUOTE]

They stock e'm every year....hope you catch a thousand of em!! Sounds like the ones that were reported dead were becuase of gut hooking not becuase of water temps or DO.

Of course there is always a possibility of mortality any time you are fishing at any time of the year. None of us are God in that respect. We can intend to catch and release bass, or any fish, and get the fish deep and lose it. But with respect to striped bass, they do very much suffer from a condition that affects a few species of fish and reptiles. To be perfectly honest most creatures suffer from the condition, including humans. The difference is, with stripers (and other various species) the condition is fatal. We see football players on the side lines sucking in pure oxygen. The reason is because they have exerted themselves to a point where their body goes into defense mode and starts producing lactic acid. We've all experienced it. This is what causes our muscles to become achy and slow to respond and the mind goes a little blurry. It's the que from the body that we need to slow down. With stripers, this lactic acid production causes total paralysis. Many times they simple drift to the floor at die. The condition is much more prevalent the bigger the fish is/the less DO (dissolved oxygen) in the water/the more stressed the fish is. The DO decreases in the warmer the water is and the longer it is warm. The less dense the water, the less DO it can hold. This condition is not prevalent in water below 70 degrees (haven't looked it up for a while so someone correct me if my number is off).
So to answer your question, our concern with warm water catch and release is rooted deeply within scientific fact. And no one is saying anyone is wrong for doing what is well within the regulations. It's just that some fisherman do not realize they could be killing fish when they are catch and releasing. If they knew, they probably would adjust and all we are doing is making people aware of the situation. Stripers are a put and take in Cumberland. They are put there for two reasons. 1) to help regulate the bait population. 2)to be fished for and taken home for table fare. Anyone that wants to fish for them should. All we are saying is understand the actual risks when doing so. And no one wanted to single anyone out or accuse anyone of doing anything they shouldn't be doing. StriperNut is fishing for them regularly. He understands the risks. If he didn't, we'd be more than happy to point them out to him.. LOL

Fisherman account for less than 5% of fish kills this time of year. The Corp of Engineers kills thousands more than we ever will. Why is this a fishing board and everyone blames people for fishing. Ridiculous!

[QUOTE=BuckhrnBasser;464960]Fisherman account for less than 5% of fish kills this time of year. The Corp of Engineers kills thousands more than we ever will. Why is this a fishing board and everyone blames people for fishing. Ridiculous![/QUOTE]

As a rule, I would not respond to a post like this, but the collective ingnorance and angrorance just just pisses me off. (forgive the sp?)

CAN YOU QUALIFY THAT STATEMENT WITH DATA????:confused: And I assume, you do have some legitimate (research based) data to back up your off the cuff statement?

Riciculous, remember...Wolf Creek Dam is a "FLOOD CONTROL DAM"., so keep that in mind when make your judgements, as well as what we as fisherman can to do perserve the quality of striper fishing in LC.

PS, just checked your personal profile on "fishin.com and find nothing...hasn't been filled out. Just hoping your are not a regular fisherman (catcher <24 inches) on LC, just saying ! But to be fair, if you have a valid KY LIC., catch and release them little ones and long as you feel it's right. It's you legal right to do so!!

[QUOTE=mhall;464946]My God it's hopeless, told ya fellas. AGAIN NOBODY was being critical of the guy. Re-read them carefully and tell where in this thread they were slamming Rich or even slightly getting on the guy, seriously show us???

Also I would like you to show me where I have ''MANY TIMES'' got on you about sqaut. Show me from the archives and I'll shut up. If you are gonna single me out Pal, back it up with some facts. Pull the posts up where I have asked you more than one time about your smallmouth, and I bet it was done respectfully to. Show me if you are gonna single me out like that.......[/QUOTE]

MHall,
Forgive me it may not have been "many times". You have in the past posted comments to me like, "You caught 5 keepers, I hope they all got released. Do you realize how long it takes to get that size." Just because I measured those fish to see if they kept doesn't mean I kept them but it doesn't mean that I didn't either! Nothing wrong with supporting catch and release...I release way more than I eat. However, when good people come on here posting a report such as Rich did, we should be thankful of the report or congratulate them on their catch (not saying this would be the case if someone was outside the law). Instead, some of these opinionated comments "appear" to belittle someone just because they don't believe the way that we do. Rich did state that he wasn't going to report on CRL again just NRL (sounds like he might have been offended and offered kindly to not report on his fishing at CRL because he might catch some grief over it). MHall Sorry if you think I was singling you out. I can put on my big boy pants and admit you may not have commented on me "many times" but I have seen these comments not just from you but from others as well (Not commented to me but to other posters). Wow...I just can't figure why we can't just live and let live. Again, I apologize if Rich wasn't offended then I shouldn't have been....
Later,
Tim
bassmaster

[QUOTE=FlyLie;464968]As a rule, I would not respond to a post like this, but the collective ingnorance and angrorance just just pisses me off. (forgive the sp?)

CAN YOU QUALIFY THAT STATEMENT WITH DATA????:confused: And I assume, you do have some legitimate (research based) data to back up your off the cuff statement?

Riciculous, remember...Wolf Creek Dam is a "FLOOD CONTROL DAM"., so keep that in mind when make your judgements, as well as what we as fisherman can to do perserve the quality of striper fishing in LC.

PS, just checked your personal profile on "fishin.com and find nothing...hasn't been filled out. Just hoping your are not a regular fisherman (catcher <24 inches) on LC, just saying ! But to be fair, if you have a valid KY LIC., catch and release them little ones and long as you feel it's right. It's you legal right to do so!![/QUOTE]Dadburn right I have the right to do so. I hope you loose sleep at night thinking that I am catching and killing all of those fish. We should promote people to partake in fishing in this region; not disourage them from it just because a few guides might not get a 5 star rating. Fishing is recreational, and guys like you that make it commercial take all of the recreational "fun" out of the sport. Always remember, opinions are like a@@holes, everyone's got one, and some smell worse than others. And you, my friend, are telling grown people not to do something, and that is the most vile smell in America. We were founded on the fact that we dont like to be told what to do. The same applies here as well.

P.S. I have been fishing the points across from Rowena about 3 times a week early in the morning and catching non keepers like crazy on a Spook.

[QUOTE=BuckhrnBasser;464979] ...And you, my friend, are telling grown people not to do something, and that is the most vile smell in America. ....[/QUOTE]

I know this comment was not directed at me. However, no one in this thread has told anyone what they can and cannot do. All that several of us have tried to do was to supply some info so others would have a better understanding of stripers. A few like yourself seem to want to take this the wrong way or just stir things up.

Is it legal to catch and release stripers of any size right now? Yes. Is it recommended? No. Duayne spells out the reasons why not pretty well. From the reading I've done in various fisheries journals, he is 100% correct. Its posts like his that keep me reading the forums: I learn something.

Andrew