Emergency Regulations Lake Cumberland-Striper

[QUOTE=apb;426173]Shad and alewifes both spend a good deal of their lives well away from shore, out over open water. Not many bass to feed on them out there. I have only been fishing the lake for 15 years. The stories that I hear are that the bass and striper fishing were both better in the 80's. The last state record striper was caught out of there in 85. If the 80's were the best time for stripers, and the bass fishing was also good, then the decline in bass fishing over the last few years is not the result of the stripers. If the bass decline is a direct result of the stripers, then the bass fishing in Cumberland would have been at its best in the early 90's when the striper fishing was way down. Note that striper fishing, at least for me, has not been real good the last few years.

There are many other factors that come into play for both species. As someone else mentioned, large influxes of water early spring when bass are spawning plays a role in the bass spawn, and subsequently, the bass fishing 5-6 years down the road when that year class starts hitting keeper size. As these upland lakes get older, you get less timber and other structure. That has an affect on the bass, crappie, and bluegill populations. Also add to that the increase in the numbers of people fishing the lake. It seems that stripers become the scapegoat anytime bass fishing is down. Plenty of other factors need to be considered. I know on Norris Lake a number of years back a number of the local bass clubs filed suit to get the stocking of stripers on Norris stopped as they felt the stripers were to blame for the decline in bass (e.g., the stripers were eating the bass). A study done by Mississippi State University found no evidence that the stripers were eating bass. Cut open over 1000 stripers to check stomach contents and found none with bass in them. There were a couple of crappie, 6 bluegill (3 with holes in the nose indicating they were used as bait). Everything else was shad. Bass, in contrast, were eating other bass. Spots averaged something like 17 percent of their was bass. Smallies were around 3 percent, and LM were somewhere between.

For most of the year, stripers do not use the same parts of the lake as bass, so they really do not compete with bass.

Andrew[/QUOTE]

In some way you are proving my point. Just think how many MORE stripers are in the lake now than in the 80's. As for the bass not using the middle of the lake to forage just ask FISH FINDER GENERAL he makes good money on DALE (no stripers) catching fish that are not "using " the middle of the lake. Also ask the striper guides how many BIG small mouth they catch that NOT using the same water as stripers. IT will astound you. Why do you think the bass fishing is so tough right now. The majority of them are out in the middle under the shad.
Isn't it funny how you think the bass have died and then BAM in the spring they are laying everywhere trying to spawn. The bass in cumberland have adapted to the shad being in the middle. and to say that stripers don't compete for the forage is ridiculous.
Ok back to your study at norris if only ONE bass showed up in there bellies that is one that would have still been in the lake if no stripers where there. But i still think the impact of stripers on bass populations is competition for forage. Stripers eat and poo. End of story. If the kill is not to significate do me a favor in about 2-3 weeks be around ramseys point area around day light and watch the striper jumps. ACRES of them and all will be between 15-20 inches . I mean ACRES up at one time.

[QUOTE=peter;426121]I've talked to several guides and they are still catching good size fish down deep.

I would think this "emergency" situation should be over soon with the cooling of the top thirty feet of water where there is and always has been plenty of Oxygen.

Here are the forcast lows for Jamestown today through the 15th.

51, 41, 52, 60, 65, 65, 65, 63, 60, 55, 52, 50

This is quite a bit cooler than last year.[/QUOTE]

Peter This is just proving what I think is adding to the problem they are still catching them. 90 percent of those fish are going to die, either by being filet or being released into the 86 degree water after fighting on the end of the line. Correct me if I am wrong Are you a guide on cumberland. If so on the average day how many undersized fish will you catch ,that you (by law) must release. (before the reg change)

[QUOTE=peter;426182]A while back I asked Andrew (apb) a question and he gave me a full page detailed reply. I commented to him, "you're like a scientist" and he replied, "I am a scientist" and thus his scientific approach to fishing is evident.[/QUOTE]

Piece of paper on the wall doesn't mean he has a clue what is going on on the water. Not calling him dumb in any way shape or form !! But I think TOO many kdfwr decisions are made by people who study something and don't actually get out in the muck. CASE IN POINT OUR DEER HERD but that is another story, I have been on cumberland 2-3 times a week every week (weather and wife permitting) lol for over 35 years. Seen the highs and lows . Fished thru the low water in the 70's Until the stocking program got major funding and the number of stripers being put in was increased they grew like crazy. Also along the lines of my point about competeing for forage that also applies to the stripers them selves..

[QUOTE=Jbyrd;426235]Peter This is just proving what I think is adding to the problem they are still catching them. 90 percent of those fish are going to die, either by being filet or being released into the 86 degree water after fighting on the end of the line. Correct me if I am wrong Are you a guide on cumberland. If so on the average day how many undersized fish will you catch ,that you (by law) must release. (before the reg change)[/QUOTE]

I just get down there when I can and have fun trying to figure it out. In the last month or longer the graph has been full of fish above 30' in areas, I mean tons. I put one line there three times over that period and caught 3 undersized fish. The third time I knew better but it looked so good I gave it a try... thought maybe this time some big fish were there.

The guides I talked to were catching pretty much only keepers way down deep. A lot of folks including myself have always stopped fishing after catching two keepers. Some don't but it always seemed like somewhat of an unwritten rule to me. But..that is just me and others can do as they wish.

Not to be morbid, but does anybody have any pics to post to show what the situation looks like?

Why the Striper bite is slow at Cumberland.

[url]http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/rockfish/rock_63.shtml[/url]

[url]http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/rockfish/rock_5.shtml[/url]

[url]http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/rockfish/rock_6.shtml[/url]

[QUOTE=HURRICANEBOB;426093]Okay, so here's my question:

New reg says: "Anglers must not catch and release striped bass over 22 inches, as these released fish are likely to die."

I don't eat these things. I catch and release. So if I'm out striper fishing, and 2 boards go down, and both fish are 28 inchers.....I HAVE TO KEEP THEM:eek:??????? I guess I have to run around from dock to dock hoping to find someone to take the two fish I won't clean and eat. Or since I don't clean fish, do I just back to the dock, and dump the fish in the garbage can? I guess so, cause KDFWR doesn't want me to let them go and have them floating on the lake.

What kinda a perverse logic is that?
a. If I keep them, and don't eat them, [B][I][U]they are dead anyway[/U][/I][/B], no chance to survive.
b. If I did keep them, and did eat them--[B][U]THEY ARE STILL DEAD[/U][/B]
c. If I do let them go, while odds are against them, [U][I][B]but they still have a chance to survive. [/B][/I][/U]......RIGHT?
d. I catch a 22 inch fish, I [I][U]can[/U][/I] release it, but if its 22.5 inches I have to MAKE DARN SURE IT DIES BY KEEPING IT......HOW DOES THAT ADD TO THE POPULATION?

And the part that's really looking out for the health of our citizens: " net or hand grab three additional striped bass over 22 inches that are floating on the surface. ". HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE THE MEAT IN A DYING OR DEAD FISH TO GO RANCID? Especially in 90 degree water that we all know holds more bacteria than cold water.

"Although a number of factors may contribute to meat spoilage, the most common cause of meat spoilage is the deterioration of meat caused by micro-organisms (bacteria, yeasts, and molds). Beware! Foods can contain dangerous bacteria and microorganisms but still have a normal appearance."

So the KDFWR, to help clear dead fish off the lake, think its a good idea to encourage (raising the limit to five encourages collection)....encourage people to pick up dead fish that might be DANGEROUS TO THEIR HEALTH AND EAT THEM.

What next? "The KDFWR this week , as a reult of a recent oil spill on the Ohio River, are recommending people take towels to the river and collect oil to use in their lawn mowers".

And the real charm: "If you catch and keep 2 under 22 inches, stop fishing for Stripers." Does that mean I have to now put out lures I HOPE A STRIPER WILL NOT BITE AT? Does that mean I take off the planer boards, because only Stripers will bite a bait, and only if its under a planer board?

Come on KDFWR, make it clear and simple:
1. Bad conditions, to many fish dying, so STRIPER FISHING IS BANNED TILL FURTHER NOTICE. We'll tell you when you can do it again. If you accidentally catch one while fishing for other species, let it go and hope for the best.

2. DON'T EAT DEAD FISH! THEY GOT BAD STUFF IN THEM.

3. Do more water skiing. Fish with nightcrawlers for bluegill. Go swimming, but DON'T Striper Fish.

AND YOU GUYS THINK I'M WACKED OUT? Nope, I'm just obviously working for the wrong agency. Looks like my weird ideas would fit in well at KDFWR.[/QUOTE]

My answer.....and you WILL NOT like it..........

Don't fish for them during times when you KNOW the mortality rate is high. If you know a fish has a 50-60-70 percent chance of dying then ethically, you should not pursue them. I think that is a absolute WASTE of the resource.

It is like Laker fishing in Canada. I know BEYOND a DOUBT they will not survive being pulled from 90 ft of water to the surface. They are usually dead when they get up to the top. There is a 2 fish limit, and when I'm laker fishing, I'm NEVER just fishing.......I'm food fishing, and once I have my limit........I'm DONE.

Take this how you want......I'm not judging you, but I'd personally NOT fish during times I know what I'm pursuing will die.

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=Boone;426084]Sometimes I can't help but just wonder about some of the remarks posted on this board.....??:confused:[/QUOTE]

Which remark you referring to?

[QUOTE=KR;426200]GEE Pro V LE could you please take me and show me how to catch them since my fish catching skills are so bad. You are a jerk my friend, and absolute JERK!!!! JByrd made an awesome point from the viewpoint of Dale Hollow and Laurel.[/QUOTE]

Excellent Point??

Doubtful.........Dale and Cumberland are completely DIFFERENT lakes.......How many times has Dale been dropped oh say 60 ft to keep from flooding the down stream communities. I can tell you NONE since I've been fishing it. Cumberland.......well practically every year over the past few. I will tell you this though.....I think there have been some serious SPAWN classes at cumberland lately, and as soon as the lake comes up a little all that brush along the bank is going to make for some FANTASTIC fishing. BUT you guys will of course say it is all due to the striper kills this year and last year.

Dale has some SERIOUS predators besides spots, smallies and largemouth. How about Lakers, Rainbows, Muskies, Walleye,etc, etc Those take a BIG bite out of the alewife and shad population.

And........since the introduction of alewives into Dale, I believe there have not been too many "trophy" smallies caught from there.......trophy meaning over 8lbs.

Like I said in the previous thread..........I hope you guys get really good at alewife fishing, because without the stripers, that is ALL you're going to catch.........

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;426611]My answer.....and you WILL NOT like it..........

Don't fish for them during times when you KNOW the mortality rate is high. If you know a fish has a 50-60-70 percent chance of dying then ethically, you should not pursue them. I think that is a absolute WASTE of the resource.

It is like Laker fishing in Canada. I know BEYOND a DOUBT they will not survive being pulled from 90 ft of water to the surface. They are usually dead when they get up to the top. There is a 2 fish limit, and when I'm laker fishing, I'm NEVER just fishing.......I'm food fishing, and once I have my limit........I'm DONE.

Take this how you want......I'm not judging you, but I'd personally NOT fish during times I know what I'm pursuing will die.

Later,

Geo[/QUOTE]

Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view.

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;426615]Excellent Point??

Doubtful.........Dale and Cumberland are completely DIFFERENT lakes.......How many times has Dale been dropped oh say 60 ft to keep from flooding the down stream communities. I can tell you NONE since I've been fishing it. Cumberland.......well practically every year over the past few. I will tell you this though.....I think there have been some serious SPAWN classes at cumberland lately, and as soon as the lake comes up a little all that brush along the bank is going to make for some FANTASTIC fishing. BUT you guys will of course say it is all due to the striper kills this year and last year.

Dale has some SERIOUS predators besides spots, smallies and largemouth. How about Lakers, Rainbows, Muskies, Walleye,etc, etc Those take a BIG bite out of the alewife and shad population.

And........since the introduction of alewives into Dale, I believe there have not been too many "trophy" smallies caught from there.......trophy meaning over 8lbs.

Like I said in the previous thread..........I hope you guys get really good at alewife fishing, because without the stripers, that is ALL you're going to catch.........

Later,

Geo[/QUOTE]

Well hope this is not sounding like I am disputing every comment, But I KNOW FOR A FACT alewives where in Dale YEARS before cumberland. In fact I KNOW who caught some of the first ones and put in lake cumberland in the early 70's.At the time the Game wardens (as they where called then ) Tried to get someone to admit to it HA HA . But their exact words where that alewives are steriods for bass. The only bad thing they said was that they are more prone to a die off which in-turn may harm the bass population They wanted the magnum spots and the big smallies that where in dale to be in cumberland. Also cumberland has the same predators that you mentioned OH YEA that is right the STRIPERS ate all the trout in the early 80's. Yes for some of you new to cumberland fishermen they used to stock trout in cumberland EVERY spring. Man you could murder the stripers in the heads of the creeks when they releasd the trout. Ever heard of a strawberry little mac. When striper fishing was at its best that was the lure. IMATION RAINBOW TROUT !!!!. And cumberland dropping 60 feet? where and when did that happen .In 1984 we got 10 inches of rain the lake rose to 751 (highest in history and was going over the flood gates at the top of the **** . Go to this link and click on statistics I think it has done that one other time in it's 57 year history. If they pulled it down to 690 (whichswas common during the winter before the repairs) That is a 61 feet drop So yea I guess it did happen ONCE !!! and that was over 8-10 months Most years cumberland would stay around 720 and during the summer start to drop until Dec or Jan down to the 690 mark.The lowest it has EVER been in the history of the **** is 675.10 Jan 27 1981
This year alone dale was 637.31 on Jan 11 and it went up to 658.39 on April 18 , 21 feet difference .So as you can see they both fluctuate.,
Ok for a thought let them try to put stripers in DALE and watch the reaction. The smallmouth fishermen would burn Frankfort......
As for the over 8 lbs Believe there have been several pics on this site alone just in the last 2 years . That doesn't count the ones we don't hear about.
Think elnuts could give a good ideal on how many he has heard about coming from down there.
And since i made the comment about fishing cumberland for 35 years i have also fished dale just as long but not as often. Was lucky enough to have an Old Man as we call him who had fished Dale many a time with the late great Billy westmorland introduce me to Dale hollow. When I was still a single man he had retired from the army and we fished every sat and sunday for 2 years from feb until late november on the hollow. Remember this was before the float-n-fly So that is how can compare the two lakes . I have fished them thru thick and thin.....
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cumberland#Statistics[/url] go to this link and click on stats to see the highs and lows

[QUOTE=Jbyrd;426640]Well hope this is not sounding like I am disputing every comment, But I KNOW FOR A FACT alewives where in Dale YEARS before cumberland. In fact I KNOW who caught some of the first ones and put in lake cumberland in the early 70's.At the time the Game wardens (as they where called then ) Tried to get someone to admit to it HA HA . But their exact words where that alewives are steriods for bass. The only bad thing they said was that they are more prone to a die off which in-turn may harm the bass population They wanted the magnum spots and the big smallies that where in dale to be in cumberland. Also cumberland has the same predators that you mentioned OH YEA that is right the STRIPERS ate all the trout in the early 80's. Yes for some of you new to cumberland fishermen they used to stock trout in cumberland EVERY spring. Man you could murder the stripers in the heads of the creeks when they releasd the trout. Ever heard of a strawberry little mac. When striper fishing was at its best that was the lure. IMATION RAINBOW TROUT !!!!. And cumberland dropping 60 feet? where and when did that happen .In 1984 we got 10 inches of rain the lake rose to 751 (highest in history and was going over the flood gates at the top of the **** . Go to this link and click on statistics I think it has done that one other time in it's 57 year history. If they pulled it down to 690 (whichswas common during the winter before the repairs) That is a 61 feet drop So yea I guess it did happen ONCE !!! and that was over 8-10 months Most years cumberland would stay around 720 and during the summer start to drop until Dec or Jan down to the 690 mark.The lowest it has EVER been in the history of the **** is 675.10 Jan 27 1981
This year alone dale was 637.31 on Jan 11 and it went up to 658.39 on April 18 , 21 feet difference .So as you can see they both fluctuate.,
Ok for a thought let them try to put stripers in DALE and watch the reaction. The smallmouth fishermen would burn Frankfort......
As for the over 8 lbs Believe there have been several pics on this site alone just in the last 2 years . That doesn't count the ones we don't hear about.
Think elnuts could give a good ideal on how many he has heard about coming from down there.
And since i made the comment about fishing cumberland for 35 years i have also fished dale just as long but not as often. Was lucky enough to have an Old Man as we call him who had fished Dale many a time with the late great Billy westmorland introduce me to Dale hollow. When I was still a single man he had retired from the army and we fished every sat and sunday for 2 years from feb until late november on the hollow. Remember this was before the float-n-fly So that is how can compare the two lakes . I have fished them thru thick and thin.....
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cumberland#Statistics[/url] go to this link and click on stats to see the highs and lows[/QUOTE]

Good post, informative, great view of hstory.