Legal to give fish away?

[QUOTE=DaveStewart;483293]Then again...the word possession could be clarified to say that a fish is in possession if not released immediately after it has been caught and removed from the hook. There would be no question then and no one would be at the mercy of someone's opinion. I certainly agree most CO's use common sense....they are also subject to being wrong just like any other human being....and so are judges, especially when the law is not clear. Like I said before, obviously the reason no one has answered my email is that no one knows for sure because the law is not clarified.[/QUOTE]

The duality of definition of the word "possession" seems to be a sticking point ... not to mention the fact that we're talking about two different subject matters ( ie - what constitutes a fish being "in possession", and what defines the whereabouts of a "possession limit")

Is a fish that bites your lure/bait & gets caught on your hook & still in the water ... technically "in your possession" ... or does it have to be removed from its environment (water) and placed in yours (boat/bank/dock) ... or does it have to be placed in a contained environment (stringer/basket/cooler/livewell) ?? That seems to be the concern on the definition of "possession", as it applies to limits/culling/giving away of fish. IMHO ... that definition of possession would apply only to a fish placed in a contained environment (with the intent to keep or cull). Since culling is legal in KY, once you've got a limit you don't have to stop fishing (or catching) ... you just have to stop "keeping", so you cull a smaller fish for a larger one. If the next fish you catch isn't bigger than your smallest fish, you release it and continue to fish for one that is.

In the case of "possession limit", as it pertains to "where" you're keeping those fish, and when does a processed fish count or not count ... the vagueness of the statement/ruling put out by the KDFWR is subject to misinterpretation, and should be clarified in terms that cannot be misunderstood. I think this could be done, but I think it hasn't been done for the simple fact that there's so many variables that a simple ruling isn't possible. Maybe, since the clarification of a law could open up a whole other can of worms or end up being worse or more confusing than the current one, the KDFWR shouldn't "amend" the law ... but strike the current one & rewrite the whole thing, to include those circumstances "where" a possession limit & processed fish are and are not legal.

I think Dave & I are on the same page, as far as needing a more defined clarification of these rulings, in either case. I don't think we should be at the mercy of a vague law that's left up to the CO to interpret on a case by case situation, when it could be written definitively & cover all possible situations. It would make it so much easier for the angling public & the CO's to understand & comply with, even if it did result in a negative, or more restrictive outcome. At least we'd ALL know the confines of the ruling, and the consequences of violating it.

I also believe that ... if you give fish away, while still on the water & continuing to fish, you're still subject to the daily creel limit, and as such you would be in violation if you continued to catch & keep fish beyond the numbers of that specie's creel limit. It would be no different in catching over your limit and "giving" those extra fish to your boat partner(s). The person "receiving" those fish would also have to count those fish as part of their daily limit & possession limit !!

Good discussion ... !!

... pappy

So a CO walks up to a guy fishing from the bank and checks him. The guy has a whole stringer full of fish. WELL over the limit. The CO tells the guy he's going to write him up for poaching, take all his gear and take the car he used to get there. The guy tells the CO that he isn't poaching and that the fish on the stringer are pets. He just brings them to the lake so they can get some exercise. He says he just got there and had not had a chance to take them off the stringer yet. The CO says, well how do you get them back. I just call them, he says. The CO says, "this I gotta see". The guy turns the fish loose and goes back to fishing. The CO says, "well, call the fish back". The guy says, "what fish?"

All we gotta do is call them pets!

Everyone here should be writing down questions like these so they can participate in the live "Call In" show of KY Afield which will be airing later this month. If we all ask a lot of the same questions we should get an answer but we have to be together on it.

I just got a response from Major Estes and here it is, "The legal section has determined that culling would be allowed on Cedar Creek Lake". So, that question is cleared up. I told him about the question concerning possession limits. He may respond to me through email but like I said, you should also use the "Call In" show for questions too. That way more folks will get the information rather than just a handful here. If I hear back from him on that topic though I will put his reply here.

[QUOTE=Carter1;483358]I just got a response from Major Estes and here it is, "The legal section has determined that culling would be allowed on Cedar Creek Lake". So, that question is cleared up. I told him about the question concerning possession limits. He may respond to me through email but like I said, you should also use the "Call In" show for questions too. That way more folks will get the information rather than just a handful here. If I hear back from him on that topic though I will put his reply here.[/QUOTE]

Yeah right!! Tell that to the game wardens patroling over there (Cedar). Same reponse last year only to have them question the tourney director there. Oh well they do seem to have some discrepancies in the way that they interpret the regulations themselves. Thanks.

[QUOTE=bassmaster;483364]Yeah right!! Tell that to the game wardens patroling over there (Cedar). Same reponse last year only to have them question the tourney director there. Oh well they do seem to have some discrepancies in the way that they interpret the regulations themselves. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Unless you've got it in writing or have a copy of a memorandum that went out, you don't have much of a leg to stand on. A verbal clarification doesn't hold much water at all.

Thanks Carter and Major Estes.
I appreciate your efforts.
Peter

Well, I will be fishing a tournament at Cedar Creek soon and if I am questioned by a CO about culling a bass I will tell him exactly who told me it was legal to do so. He has a radio and can ask for verification. But if he decides to write me a citation I will take it to KDFWR and take care of it there. Either way I don't think it will be a problem. :)

You're welcome Peter.

[B]301 KAR 1:201. Recreational fishing limits.[/B][quote]

(3) "Cull" means to release a previously caught fish that an angler has kept as a part of a daily creel limit and replace it with another fish of the same species.
(4) "Daily creel limit" means the maximum number of a particular species or group of species a person may legally take in one (1) calendar day while fishing.

(7) "Possession limit" means the maximum number of unprocessed fish a person may hold after two (2) or more days of fishing.
(8) "Processed fish" means a fish that has been gutted and head removed.

(10) "Release" means to return a fish to the water from which it was taken immediately after removing the hook.

(14) "Unprocessed fish" means the whole fish prior to being processed.[/quote]


The law seems clear that you legally are allowed to "cull" from any fish kept while fishing each calendar day

[QUOTE="Carter1;483102"]If you have a limit of fish, lets say bass, in your boat and a CO pulls up just as you catch another one that is not a problem. You are allowed to cull in this state. So, you compare the fish you just caught to the smallest one in your livewell and then release the smallest one. We do it all the time in tournaments. (Well, I always hope I can :D ) Anyway, you would not get a citation for that. When it comes to giving fish away that is different. Lets look at catfish for a moment. If you look under statewide regulations in the Fishing Guide you will see catfish is not listed. So, if you catch a catfish and see a family nearby trying to catch anything that will bite and want to give it to them I don't see a problem with that. The exception is on bodies of water where they have a creel limit for catfish like at the Game Farm Lakes. On the otherhand, if you catch a bass and already have a limit but give that bass to someone else I believe that is considered poaching. If you catch a limit of any species listed that has a daily limit and you keep them that day you cannot go out and catch another limit to "keep" the same day. You may however go out and keep fishing for them as long as you release them. Most of this is my take on the regs as I read them. If you want a more definite answer on any of it post your question in a new thread so I can make a list of the questions to get the facts for you.[/QUOTE]


The question of culling came up at dinner tonight. I remembered there was a detailed thread on this and other related items. The question of culling seems to be answered plainly in the first paragraph of the current fishing regs. Also "daily" is defined. Also fishing after limit is reached is addressed.


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STATEWIDE REGULATIONS
Some waterbodies have different size and creel limits, please refer to the “Special Fishing Regulations” section for more details. Fish not included in this list are considered rough fish. There are no size or creel limits for rough fish, unless special regulations apply. For daily creel and fishing license purposes, one fishing day equals one calendar day. Except for trout, anglers may cull fish of a particular species until reaching the daily creel limit. Any additional fish caught in excess of the daily creel limit must be released immediately.

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So if you want to cull you must have one less fish in the boat than the daily creel limit when you bring the next fish in the boat.

Any body read that differently?

[QUOTE=peter;554682] Except for trout, anglers may cull fish of a particular species until reaching the daily creel limit. Any additional fish caught in excess of the daily creel limit must be released immediately.

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So if you want to cull you must have one less fish in the boat than the daily creel limit when you bring the next fish in the boat.

Any body read that differently?[/QUOTE]

Yes I do read it differently and it does no go along with how it was explained to me by a game warden.

I interpret that as you can continue to fish with 6 bass in your daily creel limit. If you catch another bass it must be released immediately. If you have 7 (which I thought was illegal) you must cull back to the limit. This is not how I thought the law worked.

Go back to post 24 and read about the question I ask a game warden one day while getting a random check. I ask him to explain daily limit, possession limit and how culling works. This was several years ago but I was told you must stop when you reached your daily limit of 6 bass but it was legal to cull back to 5 and continue fishing...read post 24

Culling until you reach the daily limit would mean you are over the daily limit and are culling back to the limit. I know you quoted this from the KDFW site because I looked at it myself. It just does not sound correct. If I were going to continue to fish after I had my daily limit and cull back to my daily limit once I caught another fish then I would want to have in possession the writing that explains this is legal. I would not want to take the chance but that's just me.

I buy fishing license in three states every year, I never keep a bass, I sometimes keep walleye, striper, and crappie to eat, and make several fishing trips, where I drive from 2 hours and some up to 5 and half hours, and when I have my limit, I keep on fishing and enjoying the time on the water. my take on giving fish to someone, is no different than breaking the speed limit laws on the highway, while going fishing or going back home, only illegal if you get caught doing it, and I would think there have been game wardens, stopped for speeding, and cops that have broken fishing laws. and my guess would be that 99% of you guys and gals on here, have been guilty of breaking one or both laws. I know I have...