I love it........you can BEAT your wife and kids as long as you leave no MARKS

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;430302]SQL Server, DB2 UDB and DB2 Connect DBA here......

Also supported IDMS and DB2 Z/OS in my previous life.[/QUOTE]

Got fishing buddy who's an Oracle/SQL/DB2 DBA. Pretty good guy when he's asleep. I went to Atlanta years ago and took an Oracle DBA course, but didn't pursue it.

[QUOTE=Embrey;430256]im sorry, but spanking is disgusting? and it lowers IQ? wow,what book have you been reading? if thats true, then i wouldnt have enough motor skills to take a leak. sorry dude, but people like you are why kids are complete lack of respect idiots these days. my kid has had her butt busted since she was about 1 1/2 or 2. shes a little over 4 now and hasnt really got one for about a year. she now knows where the line is and not to cross it. and if she does get out of line or backtalk,all i have to do is look at her and she is instantly cured...i dont understand people like you. let me guess,you probably believe in the whole 'time out' thing. wish that was around when i was a kid, id have done a whole hell of lot more wrong than i did![/QUOTE]

I totally AGREE with the statement above. Have I spanked Austin, yes I have, quite a few times. Do I have to anymore, no. I haven't had to in years, he is now 10. All i have to do is give him "the look" & he knows. I spanked him the first time when he was about 2 & the last time when he was about 6, but he knows when I say something, that I mean business. No time outs, no taking stuff away, just a good spanking. That is all it took.

You can ask TimT, fisheater, or onemorecast56 what kind of a kid Austin is. We all spent vacation at Dale Hollow together in April, & are planning to do it again this April.

[QUOTE=Devils Horse;430336] Pretty good guy when he's asleep. Iwit.[/QUOTE]
pretty dang funny right there!

So can we spank our kids or not?

And who ended up having the clinical psychology degree that allows them to practice in 2 states? I never did see a definite answer.

I got beat with the race track piece and I am now dumber than said piece.

[QUOTE=psprowler;430361]So can we spank our kids or not?

And who ended up having the clinical psychology degree that allows them to practice in 2 states? I never did see a definite answer.

I got beat with the race track piece and I am now dumber than said piece.[/QUOTE]
im not gonna ask anybody if i can...its my kid

[QUOTE=Bandit1;430355]I totally AGREE with the statement above. Have I spanked Austin, yes I have, quite a few times. Do I have to anymore, no. I haven't had to in years, he is now 10. All i have to do is give him "the look" & he knows. I spanked him the first time when he was about 2 & the last time when he was about 6, but he knows when I say something, that I mean business. No time outs, no taking stuff away, just a good spanking. That is all it took.

You can ask TimT, fisheater, or onemorecast56 what kind of a kid Austin is. We all spent vacation at Dale Hollow together in April, & are planning to do it again this April.[/QUOTE]


I will definitely vouch, your son is one of the most respectful, well behaved kids I have ever been around. He is also funny as can be and a dang good little fisherman.

[QUOTE=Tim_T;430363]I will definitely vouch, your son is one of the most respectful, well behaved kids I have ever been around. He is also funny as can be and a dang good little fisherman.[/QUOTE]

That's good stuff right there boys, a heck of a nice thing to say. I could just tell from the pics and the way Jason does things with his boy it was just like this.

Embry made a good point, that's his kid and as long as he isn't going way over the line NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY has the right to tell him how to raise his own.

[QUOTE=DJD;430358]pretty dang funny right there![/QUOTE]

Thanks Don, bet that same thing's been said about both of us more than once.

BTW, I have an 8 year old daughter, and I've never spanked her in her life. She's a great kid..straight A's...well behaved...a source of great joy for me and her mother. (All the things I never was.)

On the other hand I have 2 adult sons, who growing up were generally only happy when they were either destroying something or trying to kill something. I did have to get them a few times, but you could count them on one hand.

I've always found it more difficult not laugh than whether to administer a spanking.

Like when I caught my sons carrying the neighbor lady's beloved cat around in my dip net. Or when my youngest son yelled out "He eats like pig!" about a fellow patron in a crowded restaurant. Or when they sneaked into my paintball rig and used the trees, the house, my truck, my boat, each other, and the neighbor kids for target practice. Or when they broke the TV wrestling.

I don't have anything against spanking, it is the parents' choice. But for me personally there are very very few things worth hitting any of my kids over.

[QUOTE=Devils Horse;430373]I don't have anything against spanking, it is the parents' choice. But for me personally there are very very few things worth hitting any of my kids over.[/QUOTE]

Kind of sums up my feelings as well.

I got my share of spankings at home and got a few paddlings at school.

Now if given the choice of a paddling or writing a 5-10 page paper, missing recess,.......... I would have taken the paddlins everyday of the week and twice on Fridays.

Just sayin.


Also SteveM4A1 didn't say you lost IQ points with every spanking you got like some here are acting like, he just said that the study showed they had lower IQ's. Not that spanked kids were dumb, retarted............ just lower IQ's. It could be by just a point or few points.

Did anyone here look into these studies and see if they were legit before bashing the guy?

Word to the wise SteveM4A1, if you want to get a point across here you need to post links with facts and then you'll still probably have a battle on your hands with some here.

[QUOTE=psprowler;430361]So can we spank our kids or not?

And who ended up having the clinical psychology degree that allows them to practice in 2 states? I never did see a definite answer.

I got beat with the race track piece and I am now dumber than said piece.[/QUOTE]

I hope the following is the answer that you are looking for. There has been little data collected on spanking vs alternatives to spanking. My personal opinion is that people are hesitant to provide information because normal discipline is now being reported as abuse by angry children.

In the 1940's and 1950's Dr. Benjamin Spock convinced the nation that spanking children was not a good way to discipline them. He taught that bad behavior is really not your child's fault and that spanking teaches children to be violent through the use of violence (i.e. by the violence of spanking them.) He did not differentiate between spanking and explosive attacks of rage.

The reason I have been hesitant to even respond to your comments concerning me giving a definite answer is because one group of children involved in the studies of corporal punishment were autistic children. With apologies to them and their families I hereby submit the few scant statistics that I know of that have been released.

In a systematic review of peer-reviewed professional articles on spanking, the National Institute for Healthcare Research (NIHR, 2111 Wilson Blvd. Suite 1130, Arlington, VA 22201, ICISH) found that of 132 articles published in the 1980's, only 24 were actual quantitative studies, including a specified method, data or results. The rest were reviews or commentary. In other words, lots of opinion, little science.

Further, of the actual experimental studies, 90% lumped milder forms of spanking together with severe forms of physical abuse. Thus the results were automatically prejudiced. It is like saying house-cats and lions kill many people each year throughout the world.

The professional organizations taking a policy position on the topic, NIHR found, had not published any studies in their journals over the past decade, so that their decisions were evidently formed without the benefit of data. It then becomes a matter of science by peer pressure of majority vote.

On the contrary, for the few studies actually looking at the question, there was data supporting corporal punishment. R.E. Larzelere, in the Journal of Psychology & Theology Volume 21, Number 2, identified three contexts where spanking showed benefit: 1) disciplining autistic children. 2) employing mild spanking as a back-up for children ages 2 to 6. 3) coupling reasoning with a spanking to better reduce misbehavior in toddlers.

The kind of spanking being looked at was controlled and purposeful, not an angry outburst. The autistic children were in an intensive program. Aggressive or non-compliant behavior was dealt with by a sharp "no!" and occasional slap on the thigh. The children in this treatment group were able to mainstream 47% of the time compared with only 2% of those using alternative methods without corporal punishment.

A study of Pediatricians indicated that 70% believe spanking is acceptable in certain circumstances (Pediatric Management September 1993.) A phone survey in two Minnesota Counties by Murray Straus of the University of New Hampshire, indicated that 90% of parents practiced spanking, 75% of parents of toddlers in the past year.

I believe this data is flawed and is slanted in favor of corporal punishment because it didn't offer data that demonstrates the benefits where alternatives to spanking were used.

My final thoughts on this are that a parent should try other methods to correct bad behavior and should use spanking only as a last resort. If the parent has been negligent and allowed the bad behavior to continue until it causes them to go into a rage, don't lift a hand or an object and strike your child. Chances are good that it will turn into explosive rage and child abuse.

I was a victim of child abuse and was almost killed on one occasion when I was struck in the back and my kidney was ruptured. When I became an adult, I made myself a promise of NEVER AGAIN and that I would do my best to prevent others from suffering in the name of discipline. When I was 18 years old, my best friend's father started beating her with a belt over something she was not responsible for. He was in a rage and the more he beat her the madder he became. I stepped in between them, jerked his hand off her arm and said, "Don't hit her another time; lay the rest of her wounds on my back." He dropped the belt to the floor and walked out of the room.

So to answer your question, "Can we spank our kids or not?" If you are a person who is slow to anger and able to control your temper, my answer is "yes, but only as a last resort; keep in mind that it is a spanking to correct bad behavior and not a beating. No angry reflex slaps or punches...EVER. You should not spank your kids if you are a hot tempered person who cannot control his rage and uses beating as a means of venting your anger." I had one parent who spanked and one who beat me until the blood ran out. I have spanked my own child but ended up crying more than she did.

Have a great weekend. I am packing up and flying south for about a month.

Hi Bugsy and thanks for sharing. Your post was very insightful and thought provoking. I am sorry to hear you had to endure that childhood and so happy to hear you didnt marry someone like your parents. I hope you are going to spend some time with your Sweetie Pie as you deserve that and get some rest and relaxation. Have a great time.:)