Fatal boat wreck on Barkley this morning

[QUOTE=offdtop;429312]Listen I agree fog in the area wasn't an issue but I was referring to boats you could hear running full throttle while you were sitting in the fog bank as I was. And referring to his judgment while running in a narrow channel? Geeze I do it all the time and not because I'm in a hurry because of a tournament, I know where I'm running done it hundreds of times but at low water there may be a stump on the channel edge i didn't know about and had a near miss, not to mention after the high water this past spring moving debris around. Most guys that ride with me know I am the utmost on safety and yet everyone at one time or another have near misses on this lake. So.... I don't question the mans judgement unless i was with him or close to him as others were and as far as i've heard this terrible thing was an accident....... nothing more or less[/QUOTE]

Don't get me wrong there were several IDIOTS out there running too fast.

[QUOTE=ukbass;429241]I don't feel the need to flame anyone. But I can't believe you guys that are sooo quick to overreact when something bad happens. More regulation would have never prevented this accident. All it would do is hurt the good guys. And for the small tourn. guys like myself, you are telling us we can fish, as many guys as you would like, you just can't call it tournament. That is crazy. A little more education and constant reminding from the tournament officials I'm all for. But don't tell me that too many tournaments are dangerous when I almost get runover every tournament I fish by pleasure boats, pontoons, and jet-ski's. MOST tournament fishermen are the safest guys on the lake, yes there are exceptions. But don't punish the majority.[/QUOTE]

I too am not square with the thought of regulating more but when people don't use common sense then more regulation may be the only answer. And I am not talking about the two boats that collided -- my beef is with tournament directors not having the sense to avoid scheduling several major tournaments on the same day. You can't compare tournament traffic to pleasure traffic and both can be dangerous. Yeah maybe more pleasure boaters than anglers are oblivious or intoxicated but anglers -- tournament anglers in particular -- are dangerous due to speed and impatience.

Pleasure boating is random -- other than you can count on large pleasure boat crowds on memorial, july 4th, and labor day weekends. Thank goodness we don't have 1000+ tournament boats going on those weekends so I guess a little common sense is in play. But tournament traffic is not random when you are holding an event that brings in hundreds of boats all launching, running, and pulling out at the same times. And last weekend it sounds like you can multiply that times 5 or 6 with all of the major tournaments happening at the same time out of different sites. If tournament directors (of the larger tournaments) can't spread out their tournaments to where they don't flood the lakes with screaming bass boats then I see no other choice but to force the issue with regulation.

Enough said. I feel for the families involved in this terrible accident...


kc

It would be very easy for the tournament administrators to require every operator to have a Boater Education Card, the same as they require a fishing license.

Every state has a NASBLA (National Assocation of State Boating Law Administrators) certified program, and US Power Squadron and the US Coast Guard also have certified classes that people can take in order to get a boater education card.

Tournament Participants have already proven their will to be ambasadors of boating safety by setting the example of manditory Lifejacket wear, so this would be a small step..

Just remember, all boat operators have a duty to operate their boat in a manner to avoid an accident.

This is indeed a terrible accident, but let it be a learning point and not a turning point.

[QUOTE=ResidentCombo;429343]It would be very easy for the tournament administrators to require every operator to have a Boater Education Card, the same as they require a fishing license.
[/QUOTE]

I would support this instead of limiting access to the lake.

Even a simple online exam would be a step in the right direction. It would ensure that boat operators have at least read over the "Rules of the Road".

But, I would require it of co-anglers too. As a co-angler, I've found myself yelling "GO RIGHT!" far too often.

[QUOTE=artcarney_agr;429550]I would support this instead of limiting access to the lake.

Even a simple online exam would be a step in the right direction. It would ensure that boat operators have at least read over the "Rules of the Road".

But, I would require it of co-anglers too. As a co-angler, I've found myself yelling "GO RIGHT!" far too often.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I would be for that. I got so riled up about retricting access. I have nothing against an online exam. I am sure I could benefit as well. And don't mean to beat a dead horse. But I was just browsing the kdfwr site on the tourney page as our ministry has an event tom., and I only counted 448 boats that were registered last Sat. I heard all the rumors also, even heard 1200 a week prior. I don't know how you could say there were that many tournament anglers with only 448 registered. Yes, there could have been a couple clubs that don't register, but we are talking about an insignificant amt. now. So anyway, that really isn't that many. I'm sure it seemed like it with two big tourney going in opposite directions, but it appears there wasn't any more tourn. anglers than any other weekend.

I don't have 2 cents worth to put in on the topic but will try for 1 cent. There is NO way that any governing body or otherwise can EVER limit the number of boats on the water, tournament or otherwise. I have been on Ky and Barkley and seen tournament boaters during launch and weigh in time doing whatever can be done to get them to their first spot the quickest or back to weigh in time before they are penalized. I am not saying tournament fishermen are any better or worse than non-tournament fishermen. I do fish tournaments, not a lot of them, but do fish them. I also know my mentality changes 100% when I am fun fishing versus tournament fishing. Last year when we fished the Billy Westmoreland Tourney on Dale Hollow, Day 1 was sleet and snow and my FishHeadz mask fogged up right after launch so I threw it on the floor and ran 22 miles with nothing on my head and my eyes watering up and freezing, NOT SAFE. Day 2 it was Foggy to say the least and really we never should have been let loose to fish but they announced the fog over the bullhorn and said to be safe so they let us go. We idled out of Horse Creek and it cleared a bit but still not a lot but I knew where I was going and what I had to dodge even without a GPS on my boat so I floored it and on we went. I WAS AN IDIOT and NOT SAFE in doing it but my mentality was different for we were on fish and in my slow boat just wanted to get there in hopes that nobody was sitting on "MY SPOT". Neither of these would have happened on a normal day of fishing for I would have cleaned my fishheadz mask so I could see better on Day 1 and waited until the fog lifted on Day 2 before running. Totally different mindset.

As far as regulations and rules, we will never be able to limit the number of tournament boats or tournaments on lakes like Ky and Barkley but what about limiting the takeoff times. For illustration purposes only, I will use Kentucky Dam Village, Moores, Ken Lake and Buzzard Rock marinas since they are in close proximity of each other and host the majority of the major tourneys on the north side of the 2 Lakes. You can get to Ken Lake from Buzzard Rock in 30 minutes or so in todays bass boat with a 250HP motor on it (just a guess because I don't know exactly). Lets say there are a major tourney out of each of the 4 marinas on the same day. Why not launch one at 6:30, one at 7:00, one at 7:30 and one at 8:00. I know one arguement is the tourney launching at 8 will say there are 3 tourneys ahead of them but the playing ground is the same because everyone in that tourney will have the same issue. If they are 2 Day tourneys then on the second day switch the times in reverse. Basically what I am saying is turning "1100" tournament boaters loose at the same time with money on the line is not good. Turning 1100 PROFESSIONAL ANGLERS loose versus some professional and some like me who are amateurs that are fishing a tournament is totally different. By staggering the times between the big events at least the initial and final runs to and from the weigh in sight are staggered, which will decrease the number of boats doing the same thing at the same time. Just my 1 cent worth

[QUOTE=elnutsmalljaws;429567]I don't have 2 cents worth to put in on the topic but will try for 1 cent. There is NO way that any governing body or otherwise can EVER limit the number of boats on the water, tournament or otherwise. I have been on Ky and Barkley and seen tournament boaters during launch and weigh in time doing whatever can be done to get them to their first spot the quickest or back to weigh in time before they are penalized. I am not saying tournament fishermen are any better or worse than non-tournament fishermen. I do fish tournaments, not a lot of them, but do fish them. I also know my mentality changes 100% when I am fun fishing versus tournament fishing. Last year when we fished the Billy Westmoreland Tourney on Dale Hollow, Day 1 was sleet and snow and my FishHeadz mask fogged up right after launch so I threw it on the floor and ran 22 miles with nothing on my head and my eyes watering up and freezing, NOT SAFE. Day 2 it was Foggy to say the least and really we never should have been let loose to fish but they announced the fog over the bullhorn and said to be safe so they let us go. We idled out of Horse Creek and it cleared a bit but still not a lot but I knew where I was going and what I had to dodge even without a GPS on my boat so I floored it and on we went. I WAS AN IDIOT and NOT SAFE in doing it but my mentality was different for we were on fish and in my slow boat just wanted to get there in hopes that nobody was sitting on "MY SPOT". Neither of these would have happened on a normal day of fishing for I would have cleaned my fishheadz mask so I could see better on Day 1 and waited until the fog lifted on Day 2 before running. Totally different mindset.

As far as regulations and rules, we will never be able to limit the number of tournament boats or tournaments on lakes like Ky and Barkley but what about limiting the takeoff times. For illustration purposes only, I will use Kentucky Dam Village, Moores, Ken Lake and Buzzard Rock marinas since they are in close proximity of each other and host the majority of the major tourneys on the north side of the 2 Lakes. You can get to Ken Lake from Buzzard Rock in 30 minutes or so in todays bass boat with a 250HP motor on it (just a guess because I don't know exactly). Lets say there are a major tourney out of each of the 4 marinas on the same day. Why not launch one at 6:30, one at 7:00, one at 7:30 and one at 8:00. I know one arguement is the tourney launching at 8 will say there are 3 tourneys ahead of them but the playing ground is the same because everyone in that tourney will have the same issue. If they are 2 Day tourneys then on the second day switch the times in reverse. Basically what I am saying is turning "1100" tournament boaters loose at the same time with money on the line is not good. Turning 1100 PROFESSIONAL ANGLERS loose versus some professional and some like me who are amateurs that are fishing a tournament is totally different. By staggering the times between the big events at least the initial and final runs to and from the weigh in sight are staggered, which will decrease the number of boats doing the same thing at the same time. Just my 1 cent worth[/QUOTE]
This may sound like I am arguing with but I am not. Those are all good points, I don't see it happening though just because of what you said, you just can't govern that kind of thing. And again, how did we come up with 1100, if that is reality, ok, but where did it come from? There were only two large tourneys registered last week, all the big ones register. Those two combined only put 410 on the lake. I didn't go back and look, but there were prob. more tourn. anglers on the lake earlier in the year, and more than once I would say.

[QUOTE=ukbass;429571]This may sound like I am arguing with but I am not. Those are all good points, I don't see it happening though just because of what you said, you just can't govern that kind of thing. And again, how did we come up with 1100, if that is reality, ok, but where did it come from? There were only two large tourneys registered last week, all the big ones register. Those two combined only put 410 on the lake. I didn't go back and look, but there were prob. more tourn. anglers on the lake earlier in the year, and more than once I would say.[/QUOTE]

There were two big ones that did not register on the KDFW board...one out of Jonathan Creek and one out to Paris.

Not a tournament director but maybe one of them can respond, but whats to say that it is required by law to register all tournaments that have or plan on having more than "X" number of boats on the KFW board. Tournaments this big are scheduled and planned well in advance enough for this to happen. I don't know if there were 1100 boats in tournaments or not, even if there were only 400 in 2 seperate tourneys going out of Kentucky Dam Village and the Moores or Moores and Ken Lake, these are close enough that 400 boats will be speeding to their first spots at the same time. If nothing else big tours like Renegade, USA Bassin, FLW, Elite Series and others could very easily get together when their schedules are put out many months in advance to schedule different launch times for safety as well. Again just my 1 cent.

[QUOTE=elnutsmalljaws;429584]Not a tournament director but maybe one of them can respond, but whats to say that it is required by law to register all tournaments that have or plan on having more than "X" number of boats on the KFW board. Tournaments this big are scheduled and planned well in advance enough for this to happen. I don't know if there were 1100 boats in tournaments or not, even if there were only 400 in 2 seperate tourneys going out of Kentucky Dam Village and the Moores or Moores and Ken Lake, these are close enough that 400 boats will be speeding to their first spots at the same time. If nothing else big tours like Renegade, USA Bassin, FLW, Elite Series and others could very easily get together when their schedules are put out many months in advance to schedule different launch times for safety as well. Again just my 1 cent.[/QUOTE]
I would have no problem with that either. I schedule all of CAST tourneys on kdwfr even though we are really small. Don't get me wrong, I hate all the traffice like anyone else, but I sure am glad that no one can tell us we can't have a tourn. at a certain time. I wish everyone had to register, we try to avoid a big tourn. when possible, but you can't if you don't know about it.
You prob. will never be able to avoid two tourn. close together all of the time. And you have to remember, even when they do register, that is an estimation. They might call it a 150 boat tourn., but only 80 show's up. It could go the other way also I know, but in my opinion the number of participants have been low the last few years, and I think everyone knows why.

[QUOTE=DaveStewart;429582]There were two big ones that did not register on the KDFW board...one out of Jonathan Creek and one out to Paris.[/QUOTE]
Who fished out of Jonathan Creek, just asking. And I wouldn't even count Paris, those tourneys should have little if any impact on the North end.

[QUOTE=ukbass;429607]I would have no problem with that either. I schedule all of CAST tourneys on kdwfr even though we are really small. Don't get me wrong, I hate all the traffice like anyone else, but I sure am glad that no one can tell us we can't have a tourn. at a certain time. I wish everyone had to register, we try to avoid a big tourn. when possible, but you can't if you don't know about it.
You prob. will never be able to avoid two tourn. close together all of the time. And you have to remember, even when they do register, that is an estimation. They might call it a 150 boat tourn., but only 80 show's up. It could go the other way also I know, but in my opinion the number of participants have been low the last few years, and I think everyone knows why.[/QUOTE]

Even if you register 150 and only 80 show up, that would still be over the 50 boat minimum that I suggested must be registered. As far as Paris goes, I remember KVD fishing just outside of Kentucky Dam Marina in the 2009 Elite that was launched from Paris. Visa versa, I remember in the spring of 2008 when the water was about 4 feet over summer pool and I think it was the Fishers of Men that took out of The Moores and the guy that won it fished down near Paris Landing. Plus any Big Tourneys out of Ken Lake could have boat running south as those from Paris running north. Even staggering these by a half hour would get the major running out of the way early. I just think the bigger tournaments with a large number of boats in them could be scheduled with staggered start times. You take guys fishing for money, guys that are trying to get to their best spot to start the day, guys that come to lakes from out of state or lakes that they are not familiar with and then throw in all these boats getting launched at the same time is a recipe for trouble. Throw in todays economic times where it is more important for guys to finish in the money to cover expenses and it makes it worse. nothing against tournament fishermen for they also bring in money to the economy around the lakes but there has to be a way to make it safer for all.