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[QUOTE=jcb;526014]apb, you and these articles are correct--and there's a link between them. A lot of the "homosexual behavior" observed in animals has nothing to do with sexual preference, but with establishing dominance. Regardless, do we really want to argue that because a behavior occurs in the animal world, that behavior should be validated in humans?[/QUOTE]
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Would your argument be that the human species isn't part of the animal world?
[QUOTE=Hlleonard;526015]--
Would your argument be that the human species isn't part of the animal world?[/QUOTE]
Absolutely correct. Humans are not animals. And while my belief in that statement is grounded in my faith, it doesn't have to be. We share broad similarities with animals--we eat, mate, seek shelter and warmth. But cognitively, emotionally, spiritually, intrinsically--humans are unique.
[QUOTE=jcb;526016]Absolutely correct. Humans are not animals. And while my belief in that statement is grounded in my faith, it doesn't have to be. We share broad similarities with animals--we eat, mate, seek shelter and warmth. But cognitively, emotionally, spiritually, intrinsically--humans are unique.[/QUOTE]
I been playing catchup on this thread and while I see what Andrew was posting as proof to his statements for Kyfanatic I agree with you about not being grouped into the pool of animals that perform homosexual acts. We have so many more ways of proving dominance than that act. Our ability to think, remember, deduce, prefer, learn and know what is acceptable makes us unique.
i still don't think people are born to be homosexuals. Is there proof of that? I mean real proof not some study done by a professor in Timbuktu who if funded by people who want a specific result. I still think it's a choice, conscious or subconscious. I can't explain why some men act like women or have female mannerisms and speech patterns. You guys know what I mean don't you? Some men (I know women can be gay just using men as my example) walk talk and move like someone who we tag as gay without even asking we assume he is and I betcha we would be right 100% of the time when someone is flaming gay guy.
Could it be they were raised a certain way? Not necessarily by gay parents but just a perfect storm of being rejected, nurtured or whatever and they took the path of least resistance? I'm asking because I really don't know.
i know of a person who I have been friends with for 30years and watched his son grow into a big young man who played football and had girlfriends. Come to find out he gets a sex change because he felt he was a woman inside? I can't explain that either but looking back on his childhood I can see the rejection ( lack of a relationship) with his father but molded waaaaay more with his mother who is a little off center but sweet. This is that perfect storm I mentioned earlier. Yes I realize boys are raised by women that are not gay.......I just don't see a statement like they are born that way makes it so. I think it's more of how they are raised and possibly who nurtures, rejects or embraces them. Can they have tendencies? Yes but why would someone be born and think they should be with someone of the same sex?? Heck I may be given all the proof possible by some of you but still not believe it because I don't think that's what Gods plan is.
It seems really close to 100% of the folks who post here are men (or of the male gender) with a very few exceptions... Just wondering if somebody took a pole of this group how many have it in them to "choose" to participate in homosexual activities, i do not and can never understand how somebody can "choose" to participate in that unless something inside of that person makes it possible for them to do so... All you guys who are judging an entire group of people, ask yourself that question then come back on this forum and tell us you could do that.
[QUOTE=Hlleonard;526022]It seems really close to 100% of the folks who post here are men (or of the male gender) with a very few exceptions... Just wondering if somebody took a pole of this group how many have it in them to "choose" to participate in homosexual activities, i do not and can never understand how somebody can "choose" to participate in that unless something inside of that person makes it possible for them to do so... All you guys who are judging an entire group of people, ask yourself that question then come back on this forum and tell us you could do that.[/QUOTE]
Could I participate in those activities?? No way no how. It really disgusts me to my inner core. You guys who have played football or in the military know how "nekid" you are in the open showers and how close you get(physical not emotional) with other men. So my point is even then with all that I would choose No, NEVER....and unlike George Costanza of Seinfeld.....mine never moved!
Let me ask this...how many of you men have had a man massage or manipulate your back or neck? I'm talking professionally! I have several times and it was fine. I'm not a homophobe. Every man that touches you or that may be close to like best friends doesn't make you gay even if you hug or cry with that person during tough times. IMO as an adult you decide what you are it's not like a cold that you catch via a sneeze or being coughed on.
[QUOTE=DJD;526024]Could I participate in those activities?? No way no how. It really disgusts me to my inner core. You guys who have played football or in the military know how "nekid" you are in the open showers and how close you get(physical not emotional) with other men. So my point is even then with all that I would choose No, NEVER....and unlike George Costanza of Seinfeld.....mine never moved!
Let me ask this...how many of you men have had a man massage or manipulate your back or neck? I'm talking professionally! I have several times and it was fine. I'm not a homophobe. Every man that touches you or that may be close to like best friends doesn't make you gay even if you hug or cry with that person during tough times. IMO as an adult you decide what you are it's not like a cold that you catch via a sneeze or being coughed on.[/QUOTE]
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So.... you are saying to "choose" that is not in you but you say it is in other people, if I was to analyze that I would think the 'other people' would require something that would allow them to choose that.
Oh yea Hill lets all gather round the camp fire and melt smores drink a bunch of Blue Moons with Orange slices and then we can bump D heads............sounds like great fun......................NOT, Dude please say no to crack, LOL.
[QUOTE=Hlleonard;526027]--
So.... you are saying to "choose" that is not in you but you say it is in other people, if I was to analyze that I would think the 'other people' would require something that would allow them to choose that.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://tgc-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/A%20Christian%20Psychology%20and%20Response%20to%20Homosexuality-1.pdf"]This article[/URL] addresses the idea of sexual identity formation better than I can.
[quote].. do we really want to argue that because a behavior occurs in the animal world, that behavior should be validated in humans?... [/quote]
Not suggesting that the behavior is validated. Just indicating that such behaviors do occur elsewhere in nature. Note that while some of these behaviors can be attributed to dominance (its not gay if its angry sex...), there are good examples of actual long-term coupling in a number of species even in cases where both sexes were present and available. Many who come out against homosexual behavior do so because they see it as "unnatural". Well, if we see it occurring in so many other species, may be it is not so unnatural. May be there is a reason for it, though we may not understand what that reason is yet.
That also addresses some of Don's comments on environment (i.e., nature vs. nurture stuff). Homosexual behavior is seen in a wide variety of animals, and in a wide variety of different upbringings; therefore suggests that it is more of a natural thing that upbringing.
[quote] .... Humans are not animals... [/quote]
Incorrect. Humans are part of the animal kingdom (Kingdom Animalia, if you want to get specific). Just like all other life on the earth, we evolved from a common ancestor. We share more than just board similarities with other species. Consider the basic building blocks of life: RNA and DNA. We have something in common with all life here on earth. That is because all life is related through a common ancestor.
No offense, but trying to derive scientific facts from the bible will provide incorrect answers. The bible was written by nomadic sheep herders a couple thousand years before the advent of modern scientific methods and cannot be expected to be an authority on science.
[quote] ...Could I participate in those activities?? No way no how....[/quote]
I think you will find that is the answer for anyone who is straight. As Hlleonard indicated, that is not really a choice on your part, it is who you are. Same for a homosexual. The thought of being with someone of the opposite sex disgusts them in the same way the thought of being with someone of the same sex. I would have to look around to see if there were any studies on this (most likely are). I have based my comments on conversations that I have had with various homosexuals over the years.
[QUOTE=apb;526031]
No offense, but trying to derive scientific facts from the bible will provide incorrect answers. [/QUOTE]
None taken. But I would respond that trying to determine matters of faith from science will do the same. I know, can't be proven, but that's what faith is.
[QUOTE=mhall;526028]Oh yea Hill lets all gather round the camp fire and melt smores drink a bunch of Blue Moons with Orange slices and then we can bump D heads............sounds like great fun......................NOT, Dude please say no to crack, LOL.[/QUOTE]
Dude..........don't associate Blue Moon and bumping D heads.............I actually like blue moon :) :)
BTW, this was pretty dang funny :)
Later,
geo
[QUOTE=jcb;526032]... But I would respond that trying to determine matters of faith from science will do the same. ...[/QUOTE]
Agree.