New Ford F250 "rebate"..........

Need to let off some steam and instead of doing it to the dealer (which wouldn't do anything more than likely), I figured I do it on here and hopefully save other people some $$$$$$......

So I just purchased a brand new 2013 F250 and received two rebates, one for $2500 and the other for $1000, $3500 total. The $1000 rebate was if you financed it through Ford (at a ridiculous rate of 4.99% by the way). Both the salesman and the financial guy at Bill Collins Ford here in Louisville, KY both said that you HAVE to keep the loan for 3 months in order to receive the $1000 rebate. I called Ford Credit in TX just to ask what my payoff was going to be in 90 days and she asked if I was told by the dealer I had to keep the loan for that long (she said she has received tons of calls similar to mine) and she said that you didn't have to keep it for any period of time, and to read the contract, sure enough it stated that you didn't get penalized for paying it off early (I was also told by both people at the dealership that the rebate would go away if I didn't keep the loan for 90 days). I called the salesman who sold me the truck and he changed his position and stated that "We [I]prefer[/I] you keep the loan for 90 days so we don't take the hit on it" (but they expect me to keep the loan and take the hit on their behalf?!?!?). So prior to making the deal/signing the paperwork I was told by both the salesman and the financial guy that I [B]HAD[/B] to keep the loan for 90 days, come to find out they both lied. The first payment I paid roughly $200 in interest :mad: and I'm saving $400 by paying it off 60 days prior to when I was originally going to (90 days).

I'll never go back to that dealer.

Needless to say, the payoff check is in the mail and a heads up to anyone buying [B]ANY[/B] new Ford vehicle anytime and they are wanting to pay it off early and get the $1000 rebate for financing through Ford, you [B]CAN[/B] pay it off the second you walk out the dealership and not be penalized and still get the $1000 rebate for financing through Ford.

I hear ya man.....you have to be on your toes when dealing with auto dealers. I understand they are in the business to make a profit but misleading comments, lies and double talk just reinforces my dislike of dealing with them.

When I was shopping for my last company SUV I was amazed at how every salesman I talked to suffered with Cranius Rectemus!! They would not listen and assumed that I was just going to deal with their antics. I actually had one guy take notes and then called a week later to tell me he found what we wanted. I didn't ask for him to describe it because he knew what we wanted so I drove on over and he shows me a different manufactures SUV and a different color! Geez.....I never went back to him..... Why is it this business is so shady??? Is the competition that bad that they want a sale by hook or by crook???

Glad to hear you saved some cash!!!

A ton of competition, commission-based salespeople, and one of the most expensive purchases most people make in their lifetime other than their home...a recipe for corruption.

Add in that most consumers have been traditionally completely uninformed and it just feeds the machine.

The last three vehicles I've bought, I did not need the salesperson at all. I researched online for weeks, dealt through email, etc. I traded a Mustang to my current F150 that I located at a dealership in Indiana...did every last bit of the back and forth through email. When everything was done, I drove to Indianapolis...all paperwork was ready to be signed with the F&I guy when I got there, because I was very specific that it had to be and that all they had was an hour of my time. They looked at my car to make sure it was what I said it was, I did the same with their truck, I signed, and we were done. Best experience ever for me, because I was very informed and specific about how things were going to go if they wanted my deal.

It was never really about price. I expect them to make money and know, through doing homework, what's fair and what's not.

The Car Max model is working for a reason. People like me do not want to play the silly game anymore.

Sorry to anyone here that's a car salesperson, because I know you're just trying to pay your bills, but I bypass you completely whenever I can. I don't want to talk to you. Chances are very good that I know more about the product you are trying to sell me than you do, because I've done my homework long before setting foot in your dealership. If I'm there, it's because I've already decided...I just need a paperwork facilitator.

That is no way to business and I would be mad as &^%$ too.

Upfront, want you to know I work at Bob Swope Ford in Etown, I'm a Product Specialist, and I'm on salary, not commission. And yes, as a Product Specialist, I perform the function of sales in that I help folks find and select the vehicle that meets their needs and budgets, and explain vehicle features and benefits. I don't make any additional money via commission, (as I'm on salary) if the customer finds a $50,000 new SUV that meets their needs, or a $2,500 wholesale pre-owned vehicle. Yes, I do get volume bonuses each month if I help sufficient buyers find what they want and need. But not commission per sale. Just a different business model. I don't set prices, I convey dealer offers, and convey customer concerns for the dealership to consider. Just like a real estate agent does between a buyer and a seller. (Yes, I do have a KY Real Estate license in escrow).

RE: Early payoff. Please see page 4 of your Ford Customer Review Copy of the KY Vehicle Retail Installment Contract you received and signed during closing on your new Ford vehicle with Ford Motor Credit financing. In paragraph A on page 4 of 7, the Payments section starts with : [B]"You must make all payments in U.S. funds when they are due. You may prepay your debt at any time without penalty "[/B]I absolutely agree with doing your homework online before entering a dealership. I love it when someone comes in with the stock number of a vehicle they found in our inventory and wants to see it, understand it, and drive it.

Here's my best advice to any potential Ford buyer:
a. Hit the Ford webpage, build the vehicle the way you want it online, then print that out. Note the Ford MSRP as you build the vehicle on line. Also note Ford estimates payments for you. The hit local Ford dealer websites and see what they have that matches your want list. Do be aware, just because you built it on line does not guarantee a dealer has a perfect match. Dealers can do a locate for you, at no additional cost, but again, there is no guarantee we can find exactly what you want. We will find the closest possible match, show you that window sticker to confirm if meets your needs and is acceptable, then proceed with pricing once that's agreed.
b. Next, on the Ford webpage, look for "Rebates and Incentives", go to that page, enter the year and model, see the rebates and incentives offered, and print it out. Some incentives and rebates require the deal to be structured a certain way, and some are for certain equipment groups. Example, an F150 XLT may have lots of rebates while an XL may have fewer. Another example, a incentive may be available as cash back if you trade in a vehicle, or if you finance thru Ford, or if you have money down. Anyway, read how to qualify for each type rebate as Ford spells that out in the rebate/incentives page by model.
c. Get pre-qualified at your bank! Know what fits your budget, and have your banker that holds your accounts and knows you tell you that. Get the best rate with them, and then keep that info with you when you visit the dealer to see the vehicle, and while you consider dealer offered financing options. Failing to do this and going from dealer to dealer applying for credit can ding your credit score. Doing it once with your banker will not!
d. Do research your used vehicle's value, in several sources, including Auto-Trader.com and KBB. Do be realistic about your vehicles condition, be accurate when you enter mileage and equipment and condition. Because there's no sense trying to inflate the number in those on line applications, just to come to a dealer who can see the bald tires, see the dents, see the trash in the car, and see the stains on the seats, and who has to take that into account when he makes an offer for your car. Be realistic. do your homework, be prepared with accurate information. Negotiate from a standpoint of accurate information.
e. Call your bank if you owe money on your trade and get a 10-day payoff for your car before you hit the dealership. With customer permission, we can do this with the customer present, but you need to know what you owe on the car you own now, as well as the trade value before you hit a dealership. Why? If we both agree your car is worth $10,000, and you still owe $13,000, you have negative equity, and that means you either need to come up with a down payment, or add that amount to the financing of your new car. What that means is you will be adding that negative equity to the cost, and depreciation of your new car. Yes, that means you are digging a deeper whole financially. If necessity says you just need to get the new vehicle to meet your lifestyle, business needs, or family needs, then do so, but be aware of your situation upfront. You don't need to learn about these things, and be shocked by it when you are trying to decide what vehicle you really need at the dealership. Know it upfront, then when you get to the dealership knowing your situation, you can focus on what vehicle really is best for your and really fits your budget.
f. Last, before a visit, call the dealer, insure that vehicle on the website is still there, and didn't sell 2 hours ago, and set an appointment to see exactly what you want to see, by stock number if possible. When I know what time my customer is coming in, I get the vehicle key, be sure it's still available, and am ready when you hit the door to show you what you came to see. And, if availability changes, I call the customer and tell them that to either find what else they'd like to see, or to save them the trip.

As you do the research, print the stuff out, staple it together, and bring it along. The best way to come to an agreement is to have the facts available for all to see. I appreciate it when a customer shows me how he arrived at his figures, the same as the dealership is prepared on request to show how they arrived at their figures. And, it really does make the whole experience faster, easier, and more enjoyable as it reduces the stress levels of discovering facts to consider at the last minute when you are trying to make a decision.

Remember, if you want to you [B]can[/B] sleep in your car, but you [B]can't[/B] drive your house to work! :-)

[QUOTE=MrSplitshot;521316]Sorry to anyone here that's a car salesperson, because I know you're just trying to pay your bills, but I bypass you completely whenever I can. I don't want to talk to you. Chances are very good that I know more about the product you are trying to sell me than you do, because I've done my homework long before setting foot in your dealership. If I'm there, it's because I've already decided...I just need a paperwork facilitator.[/QUOTE]

Sir, I'd welcome you at our dealership anytime. What a great way to take all the pressure off! I love being a paperwork facilitator for an informed buyer, a key chaser, and the guy that gets a car scheduled for clean up, temp tag on, and a full tank of gas in a new car, truck, or Suv.

Doesn't hurt my feelings a bit, because I buy cars too, and I absolutely agree the industry gets a bad rap because of the antics at some dealerships.

So if you had to rank professions, which would you trust most: :)
- Lawyers
- Politicians
- Insurance Agents
- Commissioned car salesman
- Commissioned real estate agents
- Salaried [I]car key chasers/paperwork facilitators[/I].

[QUOTE=DJD;521314] I actually had one guy take notes and then called a week later to tell me he found what we wanted. I didn't ask for him to describe it because he knew what we wanted so I drove on over and he shows me a different manufactures SUV and a different color! Geez.....I never went back to him..... Why is it this business is so shady??? Is the competition that bad that they want a sale by hook or by crook???
QUOTE]

I agree with you. You were an informed buyer, and the dealership wasted your time. I think some dealership people think they know what their customer wants instead of listening and trying to find EXACTLY what the customer REALLY wants. The most frustrating thing for me is to have a customer want list and not be able to find a match for it. And yes, I've had folks who originally stated they wanted a "Blue Unicorn 4x4 pickup", who while walking thru the lot, suddenly found and fell in love with a "Green Stallion 4x4 SUV". Why? I think some sales people forget when a customer describes a vehicle they want, that they really do need to ask and find out what particular feature it is that the customer needs most, maybe the model and color are just not as important as the luxury and ride and price, SO LONG AS IT'S A 4X4. And I completely agree, that's what the sales person, or product specialist needs to do to serve [B]his customer [/B]and dealership best.

If I offer a customer an alternative vehicle, I send an email first with the pictures, price, and a link to the Carfax.
Yes, I have had customers reconsider makes and models, especially when talking pre-owned vehicles, so long as they meet the budget, have the features they want and need, and have a good vehicle history.

But again, I respect, appreciate, and agree it's up to the offerer to be upfront and respect their customers time.
I know I'll never change this industry, I'm just not willing to let the industry change me.

Yeah, I won't be fooled/lied to again. I did all the leg work/research myself, found the exact truck I wanted and just told him "this is the one" I want. I won't be going back to that dealership.

[QUOTE=DJD;521314]I hear ya man.....you have to be on your toes when dealing with auto dealers. I understand they are in the business to make a profit but misleading comments, lies and double talk just reinforces my dislike of dealing with them.

When I was shopping for my last company SUV I was amazed at how every salesman I talked to suffered with Cranius Rectemus!! They would not listen and assumed that I was just going to deal with their antics. I actually had one guy take notes and then called a week later to tell me he found what we wanted. I didn't ask for him to describe it because he knew what we wanted so I drove on over and he shows me a different manufactures SUV and a different color! Geez.....I never went back to him..... Why is it this business is so shady??? Is the competition that bad that they want a sale by hook or by crook???

Glad to hear you saved some cash!!![/QUOTE]

Yep, I was the same, did all the legwork myself finding the truck. I don't mind giving someone some "profit", but to lie to me to get more $$ just isn't the way to go about it, straight up wrong. I won't be going back to Bill Collins ever, and you better believe my experience will get around by word of mouth and on forums like this....

[QUOTE=MrSplitshot;521316]A ton of competition, commission-based salespeople, and one of the most expensive purchases most people make in their lifetime other than their home...a recipe for corruption.

Add in that most consumers have been traditionally completely uninformed and it just feeds the machine.

The last three vehicles I've bought, I did not need the salesperson at all. I researched online for weeks, dealt through email, etc. I traded a Mustang to my current F150 that I located at a dealership in Indiana...did every last bit of the back and forth through email. When everything was done, I drove to Indianapolis...all paperwork was ready to be signed with the F&I guy when I got there, because I was very specific that it had to be and that all they had was an hour of my time. They looked at my car to make sure it was what I said it was, I did the same with their truck, I signed, and we were done. Best experience ever for me, because I was very informed and specific about how things were going to go if they wanted my deal.

It was never really about price. I expect them to make money and know, through doing homework, what's fair and what's not.

The Car Max model is working for a reason. People like me do not want to play the silly game anymore.

Sorry to anyone here that's a car salesperson, because I know you're just trying to pay your bills, but I bypass you completely whenever I can. I don't want to talk to you. Chances are very good that I know more about the product you are trying to sell me than you do, because I've done my homework long before setting foot in your dealership. If I'm there, it's because I've already decided...I just need a paperwork facilitator.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HURRICANEBOB;521342]Upfront, want you to know I work at Bob Swope Ford in Etown, I'm a Product Specialist, and I'm on salary, not commission.[/QUOTE]

Right after we had our baby 2 years ago, my wife wanted to switch from her little car to a bigger SUV that was easier to cart the kid and her 1000 pounds of baby gear around in. She was dead-set on a Volvo XC90 because of all the safety ratings that Volvo gets, even though I was dead-set against it. As you can imagine, she won that battle...her two final bargaining tools were (1) pointing out that Ford owned Volvo for a few years, and (2) the threat of cutting me off.

I did my normal research for a couple of weeks to locate the right vehicle online, made some phone calls, swapped some emails, etc. Her car was only 2 years old and extremely low miles, but we had quite a bit of equity in it...so we had a trade. We wanted a used Volvo, because I don't play the new car thing anymore, and definitely wasn't going to shell out new sticker price on a XC90. I found exactly what we wanted...a used 2008 model, great shape, good mileage...at a little joint in E-Town called Bob Swope Ford. Their website and the abundance of super clear/professional photos that they showed on their website made it really nice. I was confident that there wouldn't be any surprises, because I think they had a photo of every possible angle, right down to the 1 french fry under the back seat that their detail guy had missed with the vacuum. They were great to deal with on the phone and through email...handled everything I asked for, no questions asked, and no pressure. I made the hour and a half drive over on a Saturday morning, got there (with wife and newborn baby in tow), and was in and out in about an hour and a half. They had everything ready that had been negotiated prior, vehicle was washed, gassed, prepped, and paperwork ready to roll. They gave me what they said they would on the car, which I thought was a fair and realistic offer from the get-go for what we had. It took a little longer than my typical "you've got 1 hour of my time" threshold, but only because we had the baby with us and had to take a couple of different test drives. (I drove it while wife watched the kid, then she drove it while I watched the kid.)

Great experience there...and the Volvo has been trouble free after 2 years. (Thank GOD, because you've got to bend over and grab your ankles anytime the word "Volvo" is involved. I think they have to pay to bring the parts over from Sweeden on an ocean kayak paddled by a Swedish mountain climber who wants $100/hr for his row time.)

As it turns out, I was talking to my Mother a couple of weeks later and she bought her first car from Bob Swope Ford in E-Town...a '72 Ford Maverick...showroom new, for something like $3,000...after saving up her money from sewing crotches into underwear at the old Fruit of the Loom plant in Campbellsville. She walked in and wrote them a check for the one inside on the showroom floor, straight up, which she said made her Dad so proud that his chest puffed out. I don't know if it was because Ford was in his blood, or because he was one of those "work hard, save your money, and pay for things in cash" kind of guys. Probably both.

Anyway, Bob...I'm glad to hear that you all are salary guys. I do think that makes a big difference. I have zero negative to say about your employer, based on my experience there. The next time we are in the market for a car, I'll look you up and let you facilitate our paperwork...lol...which hopefully won't be for another 16 years, when my daughter inherits a 22 year old Volvo XC90 that's beat to crap, held together with duct tape, and full of remnant french-fries, chicken nuggets, and crayon scribbles from her youth.

Just started looking for my own new F150 a week or so ago. I'm not in a big rush, but a local dealer had the truck I want so I went in, drove it and made them a fairly low offer. They said they couldn't do that and I was on my way. I've got time to be patient and get what I want for a good price.

Anyway, a couple of days go by and the salesman calls me up and tells me that if we meet halfway, we could have a deal. I was already willing to do that so I told him I would and I started making plans to head to the dealership.

A half-hour goes by and he calls me and says his manager told him he couldn't do that deal and could I meet them halfway again? I told him no and then he asks me if I could just come up a little more. We agree to a price and another half hour goes by and finance guy calls me up and basically says they can't do that deal and that they can't come down at all.

Now maybe the price I thought we had agreed to was too low, but the sales guy should never have agreed to a price with me that he couldn't do. They're lucky that they weren't dealing with my wife because she got pretty upset by it. She might have posted all over Facebook that they were dishonest and possibly gone down there and marched in front of the dealership with a sign.

[QUOTE=MrSplitshot;521353]
Anyway, Bob...I'm glad to hear that you all are salary guys. I do think that makes a big difference. I have zero negative to say about your employer, based on my experience there. The next time we are in the market for a car, I'll look you up and let you facilitate our paperwork...lol...[B]which hopefully won't be for another 16 years,[/B] when my daughter inherits a 22 year old Volvo XC90 that's beat to crap, held together with duct tape, and full of remnant french-fries, chicken nuggets, and crayon scribbles from her youth.[/QUOTE]

16 years....OMG I'll be 75 by then. Just wake me up when you come to the store.

How much would it cost us if you promised....promised not to trade in the Volvo? :)