50 Years of Night in Eastern Kentucky

In the Lexington Hearld-Leader is an article on the history of poverty in the Eastern mountains as it stands today. I am having trouble with this nation's dependency upon the government. The dependency is not only in the mountains now, it is part of our society. It has become a political way of life. As poor as our family was, I worked my way to an education which has given a stable job all my life. I could have been one of those who was blinded by poverty, but I had teachers and family who believed in me and knew with hard work I could make it. That was the difference.

[url]http://www.kentucky.com/2013/11/16/2932837/50-years-of-night-in-eastern-kentucky.html#[/url]

Thanks for the link to that article....I really enjoyed reading that as I have been interested in this since I moved here.
I moved to lex in January of 1996 from Orlando, Florida. I have lived in a lot of places in my life and was amazed, shocked, intrigued, saddened and upset (still) on this situation in Eastern Ky. My work takes me to schools, hospitals, churches and just about any building requiring a systems integration person like myself. When I first started installing fire alarm, intercom and cable distribution systems in a Warsaw Ky school all seemed normal while on the job site but man the surrounding area was sad and poor. Same goes for areas in Whitesburg, hazard, Harlan and Louisa Kentucky. I spent a lot of time in Pike County and became friends with several of the folks who lived there and like that article said there really isn't that many choices to make a decent living. The guys that worked construction were fortunate because of the prevailing wage laws but in reality it became another form of welfare because everyone knew that if you slowed down a little you could drag the job out for overtime. I'm talking serious cash! Straight time pay of $38-$52 an hour and then toss overtime on that!!! I watched it happen time and time again...a huge waste of tax payer money but these folks did it because the path to instant cash was laid out right in front of them. Do the math....40 hours a week at $52 an hour and you get paid 2080 hours a year. 52 X 2080= $108,160 a year! Sure that the high side but that's also straight time.
What upsets me is this notion across the country that to help poor, weak, dis-functional, unfortunate people we have to think inter city black youth or third world countries. My participation with my church in helping build a food bank in McKee Kentucky was the beginning to the end for me with my personal approval of churches spending thousands to send people to Guatemala and Honduras on mission trips when we have people hours away who need help as well. Hollywood will portray a little black kid as poor and a victim of long ago slavery, racism and class warfare but portray a little white kid from Appalachia as a dumb hick with a few teeth and a dirty face. Talk about class warfare and racism but it's accepted and it's wrong.
Yes many churches do good over in eastern Kentucky and other places but my complaint is consistent on this state level as it is on a federal level. Help our people first and then help others elsewhere. Welfare in never the permanent answer we all know that but man there has to be an answer. I think attacking coal was a huge slap in the face by Obama to the folks who worked in that field. Green jobs, climate change, carbon credits and all the other catchy phrases actually equate to killing a large portion of income to those folks.
I don't have the answers but totally agree with the link you posted and hope to see some improvement in that portion of the state. It's a beautiful area with some great people.

I enjoyed reading that article, it sure took me back to when I was a kid. I've worked a lot over the years, in the far eastern part of Ky. there are a lot of poor people there, but from what I've seen there, the numbers of poor folks aren't any more there than they are here, in the south central part of Ky. and Pike county is the far most eastern county in KY, and there are more Millionaires in Pike county than any other county in Ky.

[QUOTE=waterdog101;524838]I enjoyed reading that article, it sure took me back to when I was a kid. I've worked a lot over the years, in the far eastern part of Ky. there are a lot of poor people there, but from what I've seen there, the numbers of poor folks aren't any more there than they are here, in the south central part of Ky. and Pike county is the far most eastern county in KY, and there are more Millionaires in Pike county than any other county in Ky.[/QUOTE]

I've been looking for a while to provide "proof" behind your more millionaires in pike county comment.

I personally think Fayette or Jefferson, or Oldham, or Shelby county would have the market cornered. You think so because of the coal industry?

I have not found anything to prove your statement......WHICH BTW means NOTHING with regards to the conversation.

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=GeoFisher;524841]I've been looking for a while to provide "proof" behind your more millionaires in pike county comment.

I personally think Fayette or Jefferson, or Oldham, or Shelby county would have the market cornered. You think so because of the coal industry?

I have not found anything to prove your statement......WHICH BTW means NOTHING with regards to the conversation.

Later,

Geo[/QUOTE] sorry, I was wrong. thanks for correcting me. I really thought that was true. I've heard that for years, I should have checked with Google before stating it to be true. after you said you couldn't find any facts on it, I checked for myself. I couldn't find any facts to what I had heard for so many years. I did find something to a story where Pike county once had more Millionaires per capita than any other county. and found another story where the city of Pikeville Ky had less than 5000 population and had more than 60 millionaires. in regards to the conversation, I just wanted to let folks know that there are people in eastern Ky with money. by the way, even President Obama is wrong once in a while.
[URL]http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/american-idol/articles/160/title/fw-american-idol-state-outrage-plus-kentuckians-depicted-negatively-again[/URL]

[QUOTE=waterdog101;524845]sorry, I was wrong. thanks for correcting me. I really thought that was true. I've heard that for years, I should have checked with Google before stating it to be true. after you said you couldn't find any facts on it, I checked for myself. I couldn't find any facts to what I had heard for so many years. I did find something to a story where Pike county once had more Millionaires per capita than any other county. and found another story where the city of Pikeville Ky had less than 5000 population and had more than 60 millionaires. in regards to the conversation, I just wanted to let folks know that there are people in eastern Ky with money. by the way, even President Obama is wrong once in a while.
[URL]http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/american-idol/articles/160/title/fw-american-idol-state-outrage-plus-kentuckians-depicted-negatively-again[/URL][/QUOTE]

I just thought it was a compelling statement, and just wondered about the validity of it. Then when I went looking, I found a whole lot about poor counties, but nothing about millionaires / county. Tough.

Bottom line.........there are a whole lot of poor. Some simply cannot pull themselves up and out, due to all kinds of reason, and in those cases, I'd love to see our foreign social aid spent here instead of in Africa and other poorer countries.

The world doesn't want us to be the cop, maybe we shouldn't be the worlds piggy bank either...

Later,

Geo

[QUOTE=waterdog101;524845]sorry, I was wrong. thanks for correcting me. I really thought that was true. I've heard that for years, I should have checked with Google before stating it to be true. after you said you couldn't find any facts on it, I checked for myself. I couldn't find any facts to what I had heard for so many years. I did find something to a story where Pike county once had more Millionaires per capita than any other county. and found another story where the city of Pikeville Ky had less than 5000 population and had more than 60 millionaires. in regards to the conversation, I just wanted to let folks know that there are people in eastern Ky with money. by the way, even President Obama is wrong once in a while.
[URL]http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/american-idol/articles/160/title/fw-american-idol-state-outrage-plus-kentuckians-depicted-negatively-again[/URL][/QUOTE]

Whats more disturbing is your a fanpop member and stay up with American Idol!! :rolleyes: Mail your man card to someone who can use it....:p

As some of you that know me know that I live in eastern Ky, Hazard to be exact. I have live in places from Texas to Rhode Island and several places in between. I can say from first hand experiences that there is poor people every where. I don't feel that there is more here at home then there are anywhere else. I do feel that there is more and more people in eastern Ky that rely on help but not because they really need it but because they can get it. People are not taught anymore that if you want something you need to work for it. It is not owed to you for any reason. I have been on the bottom end and if it wasn't for government help there would have been days that I might not have had anything to eat. My family never gave up and we worked as hard as we could to get off any form of help. Everything that we have we worked for and I am now financially stable. Until people wake up and quit giving handouts to people who are just to sorry to get a job this is going to keep being a problem. Also if you look at a lot of these people under the "poverty" level they drive new cars with there IPhone's and plenty of other toys. A lot of people that are claiming to be poor aren't as poor as they might want you to think.

It's worse now because of Obama's War on Coal and using the EPA to regulate people out of jobs

[QUOTE=kyfanatic;524880]It's worse now because of Obama's War on Coal and using the EPA to regulate people out of jobs[/QUOTE] do you really believe Obama is the cause of the bad coal market, or could it be the greedy coal Operators pricing them self, out of business. with 110.00 plus per ton coal. the power plants are no different than any other company, get the bottom line down no matter who gets hurt. the natural gas market is booming and it is cheaper than coal. thats why the power plants switched over. Obama does want what coal that is burned to be burned cleaner, and to me that is a good move to try and clean up the air everyone breaths.

I was raised in an era where out of personal pride people most often didn't want to take any kind of hand out and were embarrassed if they found themselves in a situation where they must do so. I am not arguing that is the absolute ideal way of thinking, but it certainly resulted in less people living on the government dole, and if they did find themselves doing so they worked to get off of it. For myself the one time I could have legitimately and easily filed for unemployment benefits I chose not to because I didn't need it to live on, and I now currently have such severe back and neck problems I have been told different times I likely would qualify for disability but to date I have not chosen to pursue it. Would the extra money be nice, well sure it would but at this point in time at least I can make it without taking a government handout so I will continue to try and do so. IMO if more people tried there best to avoid handouts and viewed them as a last resort our country would be in much better shape. Not only because of the financial benefits, but more people would have a little more skin in the game when it came to voting in our leaders.

Obviously some people can't help it and need assistance so it should be there for them. However there is probably some benefit in a little old fashioned shame that goes along with it. Shame is something that we seem to have lost in this country and IMO is has resulted in negative consequences in many areas. Girls aren't ashamed of getting pregnant while single, people aren't ashamed by using poor and offensive langue in front of people even children. People aren't ashamed if caught lying or cheating. Young people aren't ashamed if they have poor knowledge on important subjects. People aren't ashamed if half their rear ends are falling out of their pants. People aren't ashamed at being publicly drunk and acting foolish, but instead celebrate it and post pictures of themselves online doing so. People aren't ashamed if they are lazy and don't work hard, or if something to do or make is of poor quality. People aren't ashamed if they don't faithfully attend church or believe in God, and as a result our society has tried to drive God from every fabric out America. I know I have kind of digressed but in my opinion it is all kind of related, all interwoven into many of our current problems and issues we currently face in this country and it is hard to look at only one problem and separate much of it's root cause. Good old fashioned shame was not such a horrible thing.

[QUOTE=waterdog101;524915]do you really believe Obama is the cause of the bad coal market, or could it be the greedy coal Operators pricing them self, out of business. with 110.00 plus per ton coal. the power plants are no different than any other company, get the bottom line down no matter who gets hurt. the natural gas market is booming and it is cheaper than coal. thats why the power plants switched over. Obama does want what coal that is burned to be burned cleaner, and to me that is a good move to try and clean up the air everyone breaths.[/QUOTE]

Why do you think they have to price so high? The cost of Government Regulation is a bottom line killer. You really think they would just price themselves out of the market? No sir. They are smarter than that. They have to make money like any other for-profit company.

Kentucky has some of the cleanest coal fired power plants in the World...which, because of the EPA's regulational handcuffs, will be sitting dormant or converted to natural gas fired plants...which, guess what? They employ less Kentuckians and put countless others who make their living in coal mines or as service workers in other industries serving the mines and the mines' workers out of jobs. It's is a horrible scenario for Kentucky's economy and several other states. My company has done business in Eastern Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia in mining communities for years. When coal isn't running, it is not a pleasant place to be. No money, no growth, no consumer confidence of any kind. They go into full on survival mode. Coal is all they have in a lot of these places. Companies in other industries don't want to invest in these geographies because of it too.

Tough cycle to get out of.