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I was reading this and thought some of you may like reading this. I liked the part where it says that the eye hasn't seen and the ear hasn't heard what is in store for them that love God.[url]http://bible-studies.cephasministry.com/what_is_heaven_like.html[/url]
I didn't bother going past the first two lines, I don't want any part of any lord or saviour that is so narrow minded and exclusive as to have only choice about going to heaven. e.g. "If you wish to go to heaven then just accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and Lord. That is the only way to go to heaven."
I thought the Muslims were bad until I read that, but then again at least you Christians don't have to kill us non-believers if we won't convert. I guess you just condem us to hell after we die.
Gruimpy
[QUOTE=Grumpy;490946]I didn't bother going past the first two lines, I don't want any part of any lord or saviour that is so narrow minded and exclusive as to have only choice about going to heaven. e.g. "If you wish to go to heaven then just accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and Lord. That is the only way to go to heaven."
I thought the Muslims were bad until I read that, but then again at least you Christians don't have to kill us non-believers if we won't convert. I guess you just condem us to hell after we die.
Gruimpy[/QUOTE]
Grumpy your quarrel isn't with Christians, who have no power to condemn you. What offends you are the words of Christ; that is the source of the statement above.
jcb, I am far from being offended by it because I seriously doubt that you can find anyplace in the bible that attributes those exact words to Jesus Christ. What really amazes me is that almost every religion on earth professes to be the only "true" religion as the only way to go to heaven and condems all "non-believers" to hell. I believe that God is more open than that.
Grumpy
If I go to heaven, I won't be with most of my freinds or family. We all tend to embibe just a bit.
Besides, I want to see what Obama gets accomplished in that community.
[QUOTE=Grumpy;490964]jcb, I am far from being offended by it because I seriously doubt that you can find anyplace in the bible that attributes those exact words to Jesus Christ. [/QUOTE]
John 14:
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
I don't see how it can get any clearer than that.
That doesn't say that: "That is the only way to go to heaven.", it just says that is the only way to be with the "Father". Personally, if his and your father are so self centered and exclusive, I don't want any part of it anyhow. I would much rather go to a heaven that accepts all people for the good they do, and not just some belief in a god that absolves them from all the bad they do.
Nuff said.
Grumpy
[QUOTE=Grumpy;490971]That doesn't say that: "That is the only way to go to heaven.", it just says that is the only way to be with the "Father". Personally, if his and your father are so self centered and exclusive, I don't want any part of it anyhow. I would much rather go to a heaven that accepts all people for the good they do, and not just some belief in a god that absolves them from all the bad they do.
Nuff said.
Grumpy[/QUOTE]
Read the entire passage, Grumpy and there really is no debate; Jesus was talking about the afterlife. This was after he was resurrected and before he ascended. There are many, many other instances where Jesus makes similar claims.
As to the heaven you'd rather go to, I don't believe it's one we get to define to fit our personal preferences.
[QUOTE=Grumpy;490964]jcb, I am far from being offended by it because I seriously doubt that you can find anyplace in the bible that attributes those exact words to Jesus Christ. What really amazes me is that almost every religion on earth professes to be the only "true" religion as the only way to go to heaven and condems all "non-believers" to hell. I believe that God is more open than that.
Grumpy[/QUOTE]
Grumpy: It is a choice we must make to believe and for some it is not easy. It was not easy for me.
I offer the below only for your study and not condemnation.
rustedhook
Jesus is the only way of salvation because He is the only One who can pay our sin penalty (Romans 6:23). No other religion teaches the depth or seriousness of sin and its consequences. No other religion offers the infinite payment of sin that only Jesus Christ could provide. No other “religious founder” was God become man (John 1:1, 14) – the only way an infinite debt could be paid. Jesus had to be God so that He could pay our debt. Jesus had to be man so He could die. Salvation is available only through faith in Jesus Christ! “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
[quote]I would much rather go to a heaven that accepts all people for the good they do[/quote]
Personally, I am thankful God loves us enough that He doesn't judge us for being good enough. I know I could never be good enough all on my own to deserve or earn myself into heaven.
What jcb has said is exactly why I agree with Grumpy on this subject (much as he and I have bumped heads in the past). I simply reject the notion of some mythical Heaven that is only open to a tiny minority of the human beings who have ever lived and died on planet Earth.
One thing the human race surely isn't short on is arrogance... Of all the life forms living today, all the life forms that have lived in the history of this planet and are now extinct, in all the vastness of the universe we think we are the life form that has been chosen by a supernatural "creator" of some kind to be the one specie that gets to go to a place of reward as long as we follow the rules this entity has set for us to follow... It is just amazing to me how seemingly rational people who don't believe in magic or any other supernatural or black magic ideas can accept what christianity teaches as fact with absolutely no basis in reality.