Summer bass tournament fish kills and the “BUBBA MENTALITY”

[hairball]

I just have one question for you, Triton Tom: what have you been smoking and can you get any more of it?

[TimE]

Either someone bumped their head or they have started on the holiday sauce early!

[floatntiny]

If Triton Tom is as smart as he thinks he is then the wannabe bass fisherman needs to quit talking out both sides of their mouth. They'll squeal worse than a cut pig when they someone keep a bass for supper. If bank full of dead fish after a 350 boat weigh in don't hurt then a few for the table shouldn't hurt either.

[MagikSmallie]

If Triton Tom is as smart as he thinks he is then the wannabe bass fisherman needs to quit talking out both sides of their mouth. They'll squeal worse than a cut pig when they someone keep a bass for supper. If bank full of dead fish after a 350 boat weigh in don't hurt then a few for the table shouldn't hurt either.

You're right that premise works both ways. mortality can be a good thing for a fishery, but every fishery is different. Some can handle it, some can't, some need to have some fish removed others don't. There is no one size fits all rules. But your point remains valid a small percentage of fish dying from a tournament is the same as a few meat eaters keeping some...only difference is that the ones that die from the tourney get "wasted"...sort of...birds gotta eat too!

[Triton Tom]

I had the bass "BUBBA MENTALITY" too a long time ago.

Ray Scott’s brilliant PR strategy, and it’s still working like a champ over 4 decades later.

OK, stripernut1, you got to make a little effort too… so show me.[/COLOR][/FONT]

I’ll help you find ferret out the real truth about bass tournament kills so I’ll provide you with the Kentucky Fish Hatcheries resources and what to ask the Hatchery Managers. All you or anyone else needs to do is cut and past the 3 questions to an email addressed to these 3 Fish Hatchery managers and click the send button with your mouse and that’s all the effort you need to make.

I’ve looked up and posted the Hatcheries and the managers email address and 3 questions below for you. You or anyone else can email these managers. Ask these Kentucky State fish Hatchery Managers these 3 very simple questions, the answers are simply yes or no.

I was interested, I’ve already taken my time and effort to email them and ask these 3 questions, they responded and I already know how they will answer these questions.

I don’t think you’re going to like what these 3 hatchery managers are going to tell you. I believe they are going to bust your bubble about all this bass tournament bass kills. Rest assured, you can bet your house keys and first born child that your State bass fishery is and always has been on top of this fish kill matter; our bass fishery is very well managed and the Fishery Managers will certainly not allow the bass tournament industry (all the bass tournaments in the state) to negatively impact the bass fishery by killing a few tournament fish every year. If there should ever be an issue with tournament bass kills, there would be new rules and strict regulation that would effectively reduce the kills.

The BassMaster Classic was recently changed to mid-February (the coldest time and coldest water of the year). This B.A.S.S. tournament was historically held for decades the 1^st week of August (the hottest time of the year, the hottest water in the year, the highest bass kills of the year). Tournament kills are markedly higher when held in the heat of summer and tournament kills are very, very bad PR although the fish are usually well cared for the final 20 minutes of captivity or so at the weigh-in in ER hospital tanks and on release boats that also have ER tanks in a few tournament circuits.

Can you guess why the Bassmaster Classic tournament in held in February, the dead coldest time of every winter north of the equator in the USA? Anyone with Ray Scott's bass “BUBBA MENTALITY” should be able to figure this out if I can figured it out… I personally think this tournament was changed to the winter to reduce the tournament kills, another outstanding PR hallmark implemented by B.A.S.S. after years of research and publishing the bass care booklet “KEEPING BASS ALIVE.” B.A.S.S. Directors under the guidance and recommendations of Gene Gilliland, B.A.S.S. Conservation Director and expert Fishery Biologist and other experts chose to have this “Super-Bowl” bass fishing tournament in the winter. This drastic change was not forced on B.A.S.S. by any DNR regulations.

No disrespect to your current ideas and opinions, but if you contact these managers and learn the truth like I did, this may really shock you… “in your face - reality” so to speak.

Please post the correspondence you receive from the managers on the forum.

Do tournament bass kills negatively impact Kentucky’s bass fishery?

Would Kentucky’s bass fishery be negatively impacted if ALL the tournament bass were killed in every bass tournament in Kentucky?

Do Kentucky State Fish Hatcheries use a portion of State and/or Federal tax money and yearly fishing license fees to support bass restocking in Kentucky?

Minor Clark Fish Hatchery
Rod Middleton, Manger
[email protected]

Peter W. Pfeiffer Fish Hatchery
Steve Marple, Manager
Steve [email protected]

Wolf Creek National Fish Hatchery
James Gray, Manager
[email protected]

When you receive the Hatchery Managers response to these simple 3 questions, please post their answers on the forum.

I bet if you ask these hatcheries manager to post their response to these 3 questions on this forum under this thread, they would kindly do that for all interested bass fisherman to see.

The url is: http://www.fishin.com/forums2/showth...089#post548089

Hope you guys have a Great 4^th of July weekend.

[stripernut1]

tom i find your info on hatchery contacts to be completely useless....why would a TROUT hatchery biologist have any info on bass tournament mortality???
and thanks for the wolf creek contact info, but i will just use the speed dial on my phone as they are all very close friends of mine, heck i might even ask during the cookout tommorrow.

[stripernut1]

to clarify my response....i didnt disagree with you about "normal" tournament mortality not having a huge impact on the fishery.
my objection is over the comment about "100% tournament mortality" not hurting......that is not the question you want me to ask the above mentioned hatchery directors. and frankly i would be too embarrassed to even ask such a question
and as far as that goes i would get as much accurate info about tournament mortality from the lady at the local greenhouse as i would from a "hatchery director"....friend the hatchery directors have ZERO to do with bass tournaments....ZERO. ive never seen one in attendance, so how would they even have ANY info, much less hard hands on data from a long term sample population???
also, you might look a little closer at your hatchery references, wolf creek NATIONAL fish hatchery doesnt have one single thing to do with bass fishing regs on lake cumberland or any other lake in the state for that matter. and i did call and ask 2 different hatchery technicians if wolfe creek has EVER stocked any kind of bass in lake cumberland....and you guessed it....nope.
those regs are determined by a completely different entity, the KENTUCKY DEPT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE.
but if you feel your info is founded ,then heck im your biggest fan
im done arguing hypothetical questions, just know that when you make such outlandish comments somebody on here is going to smell it and call it.
now, its time to quit typing and start casting.
you have a safe and happy 4th as well

[KR]

tom i find your info on hatchery contacts to be completely useless....why would a TROUT hatchery biologist have any info on bass tournament mortality???
and thanks for the wolf creek contact info, but i will just use the speed dial on my phone as they are all very close friends of mine, heck i might even ask during the cookout tommorrow.

I can tell you why the Classic was moved to February...because people were sick and tired of seeing 3 day weight totals of 20-25 pounds on waters that made no sense to fish. I for one viewed it as a challenge. I liked seeing them duke it out on polluted rivers and recreation Meccas in the scorching heat of summer. 2 years ago had a small rogue cold front not hot Guntersville the night before day 1...a few 100 pound sacks would have been highly possible. I was there all three days fishing and it was stellar but could have been crazy!!! So no I do not think fish kill had anything to do with the movement from August to February. Now I will call James gray and find out how much my trout grilling from the past 2 wells has hurt the numbers of the cumberland River...and see to it that he puts some more trout in for the ones that now live in my septic tank!!! Thanks!!!

[Tim_T]

First, Ray Scott got the idea for catch and release fishing from the Federation of Fly Fishers he talks about it in his book Bass Boss. Also, the Classic was moved to winter to help the catch weights go up and it was done by ESPN, long after Ray Scott was gone from BASS.

[Triton Tom]

It does take a little effort to ferret out the truth, get past the shucking and jiving so common on the internet, print media and boat ramp arguments among tournament fishermen, sport fishermen, meat hunters and tournament officials, but the facts and data are solid as a rock regarding the negative effects tournament bass kills have on a State’s bass fishery… NONE.

All you have to do is ask the DNR experts. That requires a phone call, an email or a letter. For most folks that’s way too much trouble. There’s nothing more to debate about this matter when the truth is exposed. Tournament bass kills are a public relations problem for tournament directors, bass kills do not and will not ever endanger Kentucky’s largemouth bass fishery.

I emailed Ron Brook’s, Director of Fisheries Division, Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources. Although there have been some relative small bass kills this summer generating reams of bad public relations, these tournament bass kills certainly have not negatively impacted the Kentucky largemouth bass fishery. The fishery is managed extremely well and rest assures although these bass kills may get a lot of bad press, all is well.

I ask Mr. Brook’s these questions:

1. Do tournament bass kills negatively impact Kentucky’s bass fishery?

Mr. Brook’s response: **We have no data that indicates Kentucky’s bass fisheries are negatively impacted by tournament fishing.

Bass populations can experience a certain amount of total (natural and fishing related combined) mortality without negative consequences to annual mortality rates. In other words, if there were no fishing-related mortality, natural mortality would either be greater (compensatory mortality), or more likely, most bass populations would be more susceptible to becoming overcrowded. As such, a certain amount of mortality is useful to promote a larger size structure with bass (and most other sport fish) populations.

Our regulations are structured to account for a certain amount of total mortality and still maintain quality fisheries. At times, we structure our regulations to promote the taking of smaller bass to make the overall population size structure larger; at other times, we have regulations to limit the take of bass when recruitment is historically low or total mortality is historically high. There are many regulatory tools to help us structure bass harvest rates around their population dynamics. Every lake is different in terms of its capacity to hold numbers of predator fish and the sizes that those fish can reach. Fishing pressure is but one factor in that complicated equation.

2. Would Kentucky’s largemouth bass fishery be negatively impacted if ALL the tournament bass were killed in every bass tournament in Kentucky and eaten?

Mr. Brook’s response: ** Without any data, I can only speculate on this,

but I would suspect that to be true; however, I also know that almost all tournament fishermen revere bass and would not intentionally kill them; during a tournament or any other time.

I would also suspect that if every non-tournament fisherman kept every bass they caught (even within the current regulations), overharvest would be an issue; regardless of tournaments. We manage our bass populations based on data collected routinely and by population trends that the collected data provide.

** If it became apparent that changing regulations would improve a bass fishery (or any other sport species), we would (and often do) implement regulation changes. This includes regulations that affect all anglers, including tournaments.

** If we had evidence that tournaments were detrimental to one or more bass fisheries, we would be compelled to make regulations that would not be optimal for tournament fishing in those lakes. We understand very well that outlawing tournaments is not feasible or enforceable; creel regulations that would deter the desire to hold tournaments are feasible.

However, I need to be clear that we do not intend make regulations that deter people from wanting to go fishing; tournament or otherwise. I also want to be clear that we have never, to date, made a regulation aimed at deterring tournaments from fishing any of our lakes.

** We have some regulations (in some reservoirs) that are not tournament friendly, but those regulations were made to improve the bass fisheries, not to discourage tournament fishing.

3. Are largemouth bass supported with State and/or Federal tax money and yearly fishing license fees that support culturing and restocking in Kentucky public fishing waters?

Mr. Brook’s response: All fish stocked by KDFWR in Kentucky are paid for by a combination of funds procured through the 1950 Federal Aid in Sport Fish Restoration Act (amended several times and commonly called the Dingle-Johnson and Wallop Breaux funds) and by funds KDFWR receives directly from fishing licenses and permits. We receive no general state or federal tax dollars... End

So rest easy fellows and be assured that the Kentucky largemouth bass fishery is kept safe and is well taken care of by professionals like Mr. Brook’s and other state fishery experts. Kentucky is not going to run short of bass on Mr. Brook’s watch nor is the support money going run short that goes to the Minor Clark Fish Hatchery in Morehead, KY where professional fishery managers like Ron Middleton grow and distribute largemouth bass throughout the Great State of Kentucky.

Now you know facts about Kentucky’s largemouth bass fishery in relation tournament bass kills this summer or any summer… there is no data that indicates Kentucky’s bass fisheries are negatively impacted by tournament fishing.

But, you can bet your last $100 with confidence that tournament bass kills are always a major, major public relations problem for bass tournament Directors, organizers and sponsors dating back over 40 years... and that PR problem does requires a reaction.

Tom

[stripernut1]

It does take a little effort to ferret out the truth, get past the shucking and jiving so common on the internet, print media and boat ramp arguments among tournament fishermen, sport fishermen, meat hunters and tournament officials, but the facts and data are solid as a rock regarding the negative effects tournament bass kills have on a State’s bass fishery… NONE.

All you have to do is ask the DNR experts. That requires a phone call, an email or a letter. For most folks that’s way too much trouble. There’s nothing more to debate about this matter when the truth is exposed. Tournament bass kills are a public relations problem for tournament directors, bass kills do not and will not ever endanger Kentucky’s largemouth bass fishery.

I emailed Ron Brook’s, Director of Fisheries Division, Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources. Although there have been some relative small bass kills this summer generating reams of bad public relations, these tournament bass kills certainly have not negatively impacted the Kentucky largemouth bass fishery. The fishery is managed extremely well and rest assures although these bass kills may get a lot of bad press, all is well.

I ask Mr. Brook’s these questions:

1. Do tournament bass kills negatively impact Kentucky’s bass fishery?

Mr. Brook’s response: **We have no data that indicates Kentucky’s bass fisheries are negatively impacted by tournament fishing.

Bass populations can experience a certain amount of total (natural and fishing related combined) mortality without negative consequences to annual mortality rates. In other words, if there were no fishing-related mortality, natural mortality would either be greater (compensatory mortality), or more likely, most bass populations would be more susceptible to becoming overcrowded. As such, a certain amount of mortality is useful to promote a larger size structure with bass (and most other sport fish) populations.

Our regulations are structured to account for a certain amount of total mortality and still maintain quality fisheries. At times, we structure our regulations to promote the taking of smaller bass to make the overall population size structure larger; at other times, we have regulations to limit the take of bass when recruitment is historically low or total mortality is historically high. There are many regulatory tools to help us structure bass harvest rates around their population dynamics. Every lake is different in terms of its capacity to hold numbers of predator fish and the sizes that those fish can reach. Fishing pressure is but one factor in that complicated equation.

2. Would Kentucky’s largemouth bass fishery be negatively impacted if ALL the tournament bass were killed in every bass tournament in Kentucky and eaten?

Mr. Brook’s response: ** Without any data, I can only speculate on this,

but I would suspect that to be true; however, I also know that almost all tournament fishermen revere bass and would not intentionally kill them; during a tournament or any other time.

I would also suspect that if every non-tournament fisherman kept every bass they caught (even within the current regulations), overharvest would be an issue; regardless of tournaments. We manage our bass populations based on data collected routinely and by population trends that the collected data provide.

** If it became apparent that changing regulations would improve a bass fishery (or any other sport species), we would (and often do) implement regulation changes. This includes regulations that affect all anglers, including tournaments.

** If we had evidence that tournaments were detrimental to one or more bass fisheries, we would be compelled to make regulations that would not be optimal for tournament fishing in those lakes. We understand very well that outlawing tournaments is not feasible or enforceable; creel regulations that would deter the desire to hold tournaments are feasible.

However, I need to be clear that we do not intend make regulations that deter people from wanting to go fishing; tournament or otherwise. I also want to be clear that we have never, to date, made a regulation aimed at deterring tournaments from fishing any of our lakes.

** We have some regulations (in some reservoirs) that are not tournament friendly, but those regulations were made to improve the bass fisheries, not to discourage tournament fishing.

3. Are largemouth bass supported with State and/or Federal tax money and yearly fishing license fees that support culturing and restocking in Kentucky public fishing waters?

Mr. Brook’s response: All fish stocked by KDFWR in Kentucky are paid for by a combination of funds procured through the 1950 Federal Aid in Sport Fish Restoration Act (amended several times and commonly called the Dingle-Johnson and Wallop Breaux funds) and by funds KDFWR receives directly from fishing licenses and permits. We receive no general state or federal tax dollars... End

So rest easy fellows and be assured that the Kentucky largemouth bass fishery is kept safe and is well taken care of by professionals like Mr. Brook’s and other state fishery experts. Kentucky is not going to run short of bass on Mr. Brook’s watch nor is the support money going run short that goes to the Minor Clark Fish Hatchery in Morehead, KY where professional fishery managers like Ron Middleton grow and distribute largemouth bass throughout the Great State of Kentucky.

Now you know facts about Kentucky’s largemouth bass fishery in relation tournament bass kills this summer or any summer… there is no data that indicates Kentucky’s bass fisheries are negatively impacted by tournament fishing.

But, you can bet your last $100 with confidence that tournament bass kills are always a major, major public relations problem for bass tournament Directors, organizers and sponsors dating back over 40 years... and that PR problem does requires a reaction.

Tom

I like the answer to the question about 100% mortality....so which is it, im confused....one of your experts states 100% mortality would have zero negative impact.....and now another one of your experts states hes sure it would have a negative impact?????
On another note, I cannot find any evidence that smallmouth are stocked in lake cumberland.....so explain toe again how the minor branch hatchery would protect 100% tournament mortality on that lake???
Once again......NOBODY IS ARGUING THE IDEA THAT NORMAL MORTALITY ISNT HURTING KENTUCKY FISHERIES. You made a comment that 100% mortality wouldnt hurt a thing.....and now you cant back it up.
Im done.....

[Triton Tom]

... if you still don't understand the words, ask a friend to help you with it.

** If it became apparent that changing regulations would improve a bass fishery (or any other sport species), we would (and often do) implement regulation changes. This includes regulations that affect all anglers, including tournaments.

** If we had evidence that tournaments were detrimental to one or more bass fisheries, we would be compelled to make regulations that would not be optimal for tournament fishing in those lakes. We understand very well that outlawing tournaments is not feasible or enforceable; creel regulations that would deter the desire to hold tournaments are feasible.

Good Luck this time

Tom