Frustrations with KFW

[bass2reds]

Hey guys,

I have a rant that i'd like to get off my chest. I'd like to see what some of you fishing folks think.

I was off work today and decided to take my young cousin fishing. As he is unable to be in the outdoors often if at all. So, i thought i was doing the good deed of taking a kid fishing.

The plan was to rent a canoe on the elkorn and chase little brownies. One last check, I threw a few old fishing rods in the boat locked my belongings in the car and we were off fishing. A day that started with promise turned down hill quickly.

About an hour into the trip we ran across two men standing on the bank who waved us over. As we got closer I realized it was two Kentucky fish and wildlife officers. Who asked us to get out of the boat. Searching for my wallet which has my fishing license, I remembered I left it in the truck. Which, at the time seemed to be the smart decision considering the potential of flipping the canoe (which happened a few times) and sharing it with a 10 year old boy. However, It didn't seem so smart as that ticket was being given. At which point I offered my SSN. Which, I thought every spring when i have to blurt out my social in a walmart; this would be an example of a situation of why they used it. So, they could look it up if you lost it. As I tried to explain the situation in a calm and nice manner the KFW officer told me he could write me another ticket if I wanted it. At which point i stayed silent the rest of the time as he wrote up the ticket.

Keep in mind I wasn't drinking, being loud, bothering anyone, or even harvesting fish. For the most part what I did was star the boat, untangle lines, and retie hooks. Which is expected when you take a kid fishing.

The remainder of the day was spent to get back down the creek and leave. Right before I left i thought I would do another good deed and let the ownership of Canoe Kentucky (the canoe rental place) know that KFW officers were targeting and ticketing his customers. Who were fishing or had any signs of beverages with them. This left me equally as disappointed. I thought they might want to know this as it could potentially hurt business. Instead I got an earful from the co-owner who was extremely rude. Saying he knew the officer and said he wants them out there. And, I was the one in the wrong. He almost gave the appearance that Canoe Kentucky sets up their own customers by putting KFW out there.

Having said all of that I understand that a person is supposed to carry a fishing license at all times. However, I would have hoped a little common sense and understanding would prevail. Imo that did not happen.

Most people I've talked to this afternoon have told me that once i prove that I do have a fishing permit, It will likely be removed.However, there is a part of me that says that isn't the point. A little understanding and all this could have been avoided. We have all seen people harvest undersized fish or go over the harvest limit. But, instead of targeting those people. I'm the one they are looking for?

I can tell you a few thing. First, my cousin appears to have zero interest in going fishing again. I will reconsider fishing on public Kentucky water. And, I'm very disappointed in how both the officer and the co-owner of canoe Kentucky spoke to me. I would not recommend ever using Canoe Kentucky. But i guess that's how it goes.

A bad day of fishing is better than a good day at.... well never mind.

[know1]

It is pretty disappointing they can't look it up electronically, although I believe they did it for my brother once.

I usually just take a picture of the license so I have a copy on my phone.

[mjb436]

Same thing happened to me when I was kayak fishing on taylorsville last year. I too left my wallet locked in the car to keep it dry. The officer was very nice about it, but still gave me a ticket. He did let me continue fishing and told me what I had to do to get the ticket waived, but it was certainly a waste of both our time and tax payer money. Seems extremely unfair to kayak/canoe users but what can ya do....make a copy of the license and keep it with you is what he recommended.....

[SLP]

Don't know if true but I was told that the reason they require SSI number instead of just drivers license number was as a way to help track people behind on child support and not really to help with on the spot recovery.

I always buy my license online and when I do I always print off a few copies then fill each out so I always have a few extra in case I ever lose one.

When I kayak I always take a second smaller wallet which I keep in a dry bag secured to the kayak. In it I keep one fishing license my ID and a minimum of anything else I want with me.

The officer could certainly have been more pleasant about it but really he had little choice but to ticket you. It wasn't like you were bank fishing and could simply walk a few feet to retrieve it for him.

The owner of Canoe Kentucky sounds like he doesn't value his customers. If he knew they regularly check he should inform every customer of that fact so they could be prepared. If he was smart instead of being a jerk about it he would have some basic dry bags ready for sale so he could both help to better service his customers and add a few additional sales for his business, a win-win.

Sorry you had a bad day. Take the young man out again soon so this isn't the last impression of fishing left in his mind.

[18RangerZ520L]

He actually has 100% discretion on whether or not to write a citation on that VERY minor violation. Verbal and written warnings are given out daily for more serious violations....

The officer could certainly have been more pleasant about it but really he had little choice but to ticket you.

[zofishky]

This is the underlying issue with law enforcement these days. Instead of protecting the public or our natural resources, it's about revenue enhancement. I was ticketed as a kid for no life jackets once. We were running late and forgot them behind the seat of the truck. We were on a John boat with a trolling motor and were 100 yards or less from the truck. I explained and pointed to the truck saying we would go get them now. All they would have had to do was wait 5 minutes and watch us. Wasn't like we were gonna take the boat out. Instead we got a ticket and then took the boat out and left. A half hour earlier a drunk guy hit a stump and fell out of his boat. By the letter of the law they were correct but some discretion would have been nice. Now if I see a game warden out walking while hunting or fishing, he has to walk me down. If they want to check me, fine, but I'll not volunteer. They told me they had a job to do so from now on I make them do it and have yet to get another citation.

[zofishky]

He actually has 100% discretion on whether or not to write a citation on that VERY minor violation. Verbal and written warnings are given out daily for more serious violations....

Absolutely true and applies across the board!

[Moveon]

He actually has 100% discretion on whether or not to write a citation on that VERY minor violation. Verbal and written warnings are given out daily for more serious violations....

One should keep their fishing license on them while fishing at all times. This is the rule and it should be followed at all times. Yes we sometimes forget thing but the blame is on us not the Officers.

The officers don't know if you are telling them the truth or not about having a fishing license if you can't produce it for them to see. And if they are out in the field they may not have access to their HQ or computer to check on your data file online. So they give a ticket and it's up to you to show to the court that you were licensed to fish at the time of the citation.

Many times fishermen go fishing without buying a fishing license. I'm not saying that you did that but the officers run into a lot of people that do that. And they can't tell who's telling the truth and who is not if they can't access their computer data base in the field.

My advise is to prove to the court that you have a license and be done with this incident. Put it behind you and chalk it up to experience.

I would also recommend that you take your fishing license paper and have it laminated. Maybe get a copy of it and have the copy laminated too. I took my IN gun carry permit to Staples and had them laminate it for me and it only cost a dollar. After I got my permit the State of IN finally started issuing carrying license that were already laminated. Mine was just a paper copy that was PINK in color and very flimsy paper at that.

Indiana now allows you to get your fishing and hunting licenses online and you print them out on your own computer. I print out three copies and keep on in my boat and one in my wallet and one in the truck. That way I'm covered.

Fishing without buying a fishing license hurts everyone. It take money away from fishing programs that are beneficial to the fishing resources in your state. If you are fishing without a fishing license that is NOT a minor crime or infraction. That is a major infraction and as bad as poaching or keeping more fish than allowed.

The KFW dept. study the fishery and makes rules based on what's best for the fishery. And we need to follow those rules at all times.

The CO's and the police officers have a hard job and they spend many hours out in the field trying to protect our wildlife resources so that the next generation will be able to enjoy them as we do today. They are out there for a reason.

In the past we depleted the resources and caused some species to go extinct due to over harvesting. Passenger Pigeon and the Buffalo are two examples of species that were over harvested. One went extinct and the other was almost wipe out but recovering.

This incident could have eaily been avoided if you had remembered to keep your fishing license with you. I keep a water proof plastic container in my boat at all times. I leave it in the boat. And before I launch my boat I take my wallet out of my pants and put it into the waterproof plastic box and store it back in the boat along with my cell phone and any thing else that I don't want to get wet.

Once I also lost my boat when a weld at a seam broke and allowed water to enter my boat. I had to turn the bilge pump on and pull the plug on the back of the boat transom and get moving to keep my boat from sinking. If I got moving the water would flow out of the plug hole faster than it was coming in though the leak. The leak was in the front of the boat and when I got going the front of the boat raised up out of the water stopping water from coming into my boat as long as I kept the front of the boat up higher than the back. I had to go at a speed that would keep the front of the boat elevated to keep the hole out of the water. I made it back to the ramp and was able to put the boat on the boat trailer and get out of the water without sinking. But in the process my friends camera was ruined by the water in the bottom of my boat. I had about 4" of water in the bottom of my Fishermarine Water Strider III boat. That is about 2" above the carpet on the floor of the boat. And the ironic thing is that I told my friend to keep his camera up off the floor and he failed to listen to me when we started out. I've seen water covering the bottom of my boat before as once I left it outside and it rained so hard that it flooded my boat. I had the boat tied to a boat dock and uncovered when the storm hit. It would have sank if not for the fact that it was tied to the boat dock at both ends. And the boat has foam floating built into the sides and under the bench seat to keep it from sinking. But my brand new boat got a bath on that fishing trip down to KY lake.

Now I keep my fishing license inside a zip locked bag and then tucked into a map compartment on the console of my boat. The map compartment is made out of leather and riveted to the front top part of the console where the steering wheel is located. So it's up and out of the floor area where water can get to.

I guess my main point is to plan ahead and follow the rules. I'm sorry that you have a bad day. Hopefully the net time out you will remember to take the fishing license with you and not get into anymore trouble with the Conservation officers.

Sounds like it would be fun to float fish down a creek fishing for trout. That is something that I know that I would enjoy. I love fishing for trout. Unfortunately we don't have many places to fish for trout in IN. I always had to head to TN and North Carolina in the Smoky Mountains to fish for Trout.

[MagikSmallie]

Don't know if true but I was told that the reason they require SSI number instead of just drivers license number was as a way to help track people behind on child support and not really to help with on the spot recovery.

I always buy my license online and when I do I always print off a few copies then fill each out so I always have a few extra in case I ever lose one.

When I kayak I always take a second smaller wallet which I keep in a dry bag secured to the kayak. In it I keep one fishing license my ID and a minimum of anything else I want with me.

The officer could certainly have been more pleasant about it but really he had little choice but to ticket you. It wasn't like you were bank fishing and could simply walk a few feet to retrieve it for him.

The owner of Canoe Kentucky sounds like he doesn't value his customers. If he knew they regularly check he should inform every customer of that fact so they could be prepared. If he was smart instead of being a jerk about it he would have some basic dry bags ready for sale so he could both help to better service his customers and add a few additional sales for his business, a win-win.

Sorry you had a bad day. Take the young man out again soon so this isn't the last impression of fishing left in his mind.

To be fair, it's not the owner of Canoe KY's responsibility to tell people that there may be law enforcement on the creek. You should assume that anytime you are on the highway there may be police looking for speeders. The same applies to the water, if you are going to be on the water you should assume that there may be law enforcement. In turn you should also assume that if you don't have your fishing license and you are fishing then you will be cited for no license. Also, Canoe KY has a huge selection of dry bags for sale.

[SLP]

To be fair, it's not the owner of Canoe KY's responsibility to tell people that there may be law enforcement on the creek. You should assume that anytime you are on the highway there may be police looking for speeders. The same applies to the water, if you are going to be on the water you should assume that there may be law enforcement. In turn you should also assume that if you don't have your fishing license and you are fishing then you will be cited for no license. Also, Canoe KY has a huge selection of dry bags for sale.

Of course it isn't his responsibility and I never said it was. Wat I said was that if he valued his customers and cared about offering good customer service, and he had prior knowledge that they were out in force checking (which apparently he did) that he would inform them. Good customer service is doing everything you can in order to try and attempt to insure your customers have a good experience. But you are correct that he is under no obligation of doing that.

I am retired now but spent years self employed in a businesses dealing with the general public. A couple of the many rules I had for myself and those that worked for me were that when deal with out customers they should always strive to under promise and over deliver and to also always empathize with the customer and their circumstances. It's very trying on ones self when deal with the public every day and one of the easiest pitfalls is to start to not appreciate them and even resent many of them. That is a horrible and miserable way to run a business that usually leaves the owner unhappy, unsatisfied and frustrated most of the time. IMHO it sounds like the owner of Canoe Kentucky would be happier if he learned better how to find the joy in serving others.

PS: If he has dry bags for sale then all more the reason to tell them because as I mentioned it becomes a win-win if they buy one. Happier customer and more sales for them. All it would take it the right attitude towards their customers and a few additional moments of their time. I mean really, why stock merchandise if you aren't going to try and sell it to a customer who has an apparent need of that product?

[Canoeky]

As the owner of Canoe Kentucky I would like to respond to this thread. We hear all of your critiques and criticisms and we will take them all into consideration when dealing with this issue in the future. In fact, we have already ordered signage reflecting critiques in this thread and have briefed all our team on communicating to customers any issues we see on the creek. I want to apologize to the gentleman initiating this thread personally for my handling of the situation, as a different reaction from me would have had different results. I had control over that, and I was wrong.
Furthermore, if there are ever any issues a customer of ours, or user of this forum, has with our service or how they are treated by any of our team, I encourage them to reach out to me personally so that it can be addressed, dealt with and remedied in the future, even if the issue is with me personally. We all highly value all our customers and appreciate them supporting us in doing what it is we get to do. We could never thank them enough!
Thanks
Nathan
888 CANOE KY

[Moveon]

As the owner of Canoe Kentucky I would like to respond to this thread. We hear all of your critiques and criticisms and we will take them all into consideration when dealing with this issue in the future. In fact, we have already ordered signage reflecting critiques in this thread and have briefed all our team on communicating to customers any issues we see on the creek. I want to apologize to the gentleman initiating this thread personally for my handling of the situation, as a different reaction from me would have had different results. I had control over that, and I was wrong.
Furthermore, if there are ever any issues a customer of ours, or user of this forum, has with our service or how they are treated by any of our team, I encourage them to reach out to me personally so that it can be addressed, dealt with and remedied in the future, even if the issue is with me personally. We all highly value all our customers and appreciate them supporting us in doing what it is we get to do. We could never thank them enough!
Thanks
Nathan
888 CANOE KY

It takes a big man to apologize and a smart man to try to correct things for the best. You sir are both a good big man and a smart man. I have a lot of respect for you.