Should Trump Be Involved In The NFL Anthem Controversy

[roadrunner]

NFL should not allow this I know you say it's their freedom of speech however I disagree they are not allowed to use any thing that resembles celebration after a touch down because it will offend people------well this offends me.

In baseball your socks can only be so high your uniform has to match all others you have to have your shirt tucked in you can't argue balls and strikes etc etc etc

They could have a rule you can kneel until they play the national anthem then you will stand face the flag place your hand over your heart and show respect for all those who have served and are now serving to defend your freedoms that allow you to make millions of dollars playing a game.

[kygorski]

Why isn't anyon e complaining about a bout the amount of commercials that make an hour and a half a three hour ordeal??? WHO cares I don't, I cant even afford a cheap seat at a game anymore.He's blowing smoke up uur butts because he hasn't really had congress do anything except appropriate more funds for disaster relief.Why isn't he asking why the NFL gets away with hardly any taxes? Wheres the numbers on the three million voters who voted illegaly? Will attendence fall during the new season because players are showing their asses? If someone shows disrespect for the flag and the country, you need look no father that the lack of "made in america" on most of our products.

[SLP]

NFL should not allow this I know you say it's their freedom of speech however I disagree they are not allowed to use any thing that resembles celebration after a touch down because it will offend people------well this offends me.

In baseball your socks can only be so high your uniform has to match all others you have to have your shirt tucked in you can't argue balls and strikes etc etc etc

They could have a rule you can kneel until they play the national anthem then you will stand face the flag place your hand over your heart and show respect for all those who have served and are now serving to defend your freedoms that allow you to make millions of dollars playing a game.

How Trump has handled it, and how the NFL has handled it are two different conversations.

The simplest solution for the NFL was in the very beginning (when only a handful were protesting, and some players were outspoken against protesting) to have instructed each team to keep all players in the tunnel's until after the anthem. It would have simply neutered their ability to "protest" anything during the game.

Trump foolishly cursing out the handful of players who were kneeling resulted in a much larger spotlight on the situation. He basically threw gasoline on the fire and as a result has dramatically escalated the entire situation, solidified the players (even many of those that were previously against it have become supporters of their piers & teammates right to protest in response to Trump) and because of his words it has now put the owners in a much harder position and making it almost impossible for the the owners to do something without it becoming an even bigger story and alienating most of their players.

[SLP]

Was reading an article this evening and came across this, which goes to some of my earlier points.

...fewer than 10 players kneeling in Week 2 this season. In Week 3, however, after Trump's inflammatory "son of a b---h" remark in Alabama, about 250 players responded to Trump by kneeling for the anthem while just about every player locked arms and three teams remained in the locker room...

[Moveon]

Was reading an article this evening and came across this, which goes to some of my earlier points.

Trump can't resist hitting back no matter what people say about him. He feels threatened and comes back against anyone who doesn't kiss him on the cheek. To me that's a weakness. He needs to learn to lighten up and make a joke out of criticism. Reagan was good about that.

His calling the NFL players SOB's was a good example of Trump sticking his foot up his own NOSE.

[SLP]

Trump can't resist hitting back no matter what people say about him. He feels threatened and comes back against anyone who doesn't kiss him on the cheek. To me that's a weakness. He needs to learn to lighten up and make a joke out of criticism. Reagan was good about that.

His calling the NFL players SOB's was a good example of Trump sticking his foot up his own NOSE.

He does seem to be thin skinned and often finds himself in a petty back and forth with people that seems like it should be beneath the president of the USA to be involved in. However in this case I don't believe he was really responding to any criticism, but instead just chose to go there for some reason. Probably just to get a reaction from a crowd, or possibly from personal resentments towards the NFL from his past conflicts with them, who knows?

His tweet towards Stephen Curry after he said he wouldn't visit the White House with team would be a better example of your point.

Going to the White House is considered a great honor for a championship team.Stephen Curry is hesitating,therefore invitation is withdrawn!

It's just embarrassing for any grown man to act like that let alone the president. I would expect my children to act more mature of they were slighted by someone.

[sweetwater]

The players do not receive the manual; policies in the manual are enforced by the teams. And the language about the anthem has not changed since 1978.

The language in the manual is as follows: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the playing of the National Anthem, players on the field should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. Players in the bench areas should do the same, and should line themselves up evenly along the sidelines. The home team should insure that the American Flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

[SLP]

The players do not receive the manual; policies in the manual are enforced by the teams. And the language about the anthem has not changed since 1978.

The language in the manual is as follows: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the playing of the National Anthem, players on the field should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. Players in the bench areas should do the same, and should line themselves up evenly along the sidelines. The home team should insure that the American Flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”

No argument that IMO they should stand and that the NFL has botched this but that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation about how Trump has handled it. He has handled it poorly and has escalated the entire situation, but who knows maybe that's what he was after?

On a side note, I remember it wasn't all too many years ago that the NFL didn't even require players to be on the field during the anthem, maybe within the last ten years they added the rule. I remember going to games and they often would be out for warm ups, then go back inside and not return to the field until after the anthem was finished.

[sweetwater]

No argument that IMO they should stand and that the NFL has botched this but that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation about how Trump has handled it. He has handled it poorly and has escalated the entire situation, but who knows maybe that's what he was after?

On a side note, I remember it wasn't all too many years ago that the NFL didn't even require players to be on the field during the anthem, maybe within the last ten years they added the rule. I remember going to games and they often would be out for warm ups, then go back inside and not return to the field until after the anthem was finished.

Mmm, notice the manual says "should stand" not shall stand. Besides the teams and the NFL are scared of the players so they're not going to enforce the rules anyway. Back on subject now. By taking the extra step of calling for players to be fired Trump stoked an outrage from all the people he intended to inflame, a strategy of his that has worked time and again. He wants his liberal enemies in politics and the media to take the bait on these cultural wars and they usually and stupidly oblige. These battles illustrate why the Democratic Party has lost favor among voters in rural and small-town America. People don't take kindly to not standing for the National Anthem in all the places Trump and the Republicans need to win in 2018 and 2020. Trump couldn't care less if people in urban areas, where Republicans have no hope of competing anyway, are upset with his colorfully communicated views. Like a political magician with an endless bag of tricks Trump turned Democrats into the urban elite, anti-working man party in 2016. In 2017 he has turned them into the anti-American flag (and anthem) party.

[SLP]

Well now you are making a completely different point than the one you made in your opening post. I have already said I felt he probably did it on purpose to incite a reactions, no argument from me there. He likley also thought it a bonus to stick it to the NFL who he has had past issues with.

If you respect him for how he conducted himself, escalating the situation, purposely dividing people, and politicizing the flag and the anthem that's your prerogative. Personally I don't care for it. and IMO it demeans the office. I don't like it when democrats do it, and I don't like it when republicans do it either. I don't excuse it just because I may favor one party over the other. That's half the problem in this country, too many people excuse bad behaviour when it comes from "their" party.

This will likely be my last post on this thread. I generally stay away from the political threads anymore because they usually end up just going in circles with little real discussion and nothing accomplished. I'm a big football fan, have been for over fifty years so I had an interest in this discussion but now it has just started to run it's course and is turning into the same old democrats vs republican arguments which never go anywhere in these threads.

[sweetwater]

Well now you are making a completely different point than the one you made in your opening post. I have already said I felt he probably did it on purpose to incite a reactions, no argument from me there. He likley also thought it a bonus to stick it to the NFL who he has had past issues with.

If you respect him for how he conducted himself, escalating the situation, purposely dividing people, and politicizing the flag and the anthem that's your prerogative. Personally I don't care for it. and IMO it demeans the office. I don't like it when democrats do it, and I don't like it when republicans do it either. I don't excuse it just because I may favor one party over the other. That's half the problem in this country, too many people excuse bad behaviour when it comes from "their" party.

This will likely be my last post on this thread. I generally stay away from the political threads anymore because they usually end up just going in circles with little real discussion and nothing accomplished. I'm a big football fan, have been for over fifty years so I had an interest in this discussion but now it has just started to run it's course and is turning into the same old democrats vs republican arguments which never go anywhere in these threads.

To make the road to nowhere just a bit brighter the NFL well knew what the kneeling protest was about before Trump got involved. It was a claim that police were hunting down black men and other people of color. Colin Kaepernick could not have been clearer about that. That same year after five Dallas cops were slain by a sniper the Dallas Cowboys requested permission to wear small Arm in Arm decals on their helmets in honor of police killed while serving and protecting their community. The NFL said no, that message would not be permitted so if we’re going to make a list of people who made this controversy worse there will be a lot of names on it before Donald Trump’s.

[SLP]

LOL, I'm the one who has been blaming the NFL since the second post in this thread (my first post) so I'm not sure what your point is?

I hate how these players are politicizing the game and think the NFL and it's owners have handled it horribly by not requiring their "employees" who represent them to conduct themselves to a higher standard. Worse yet then doubled down be going as far as supporting them...

But again the real issue I have is with the NFL and it's owners. They could have handled this much better and now it has just snowballed as a result of they not not doing so.

And really with all due respect and no offense intended, I'm having hard time following your points. Feels like herding cats .

Your opening post to begin the thread asked the question. "Should Trump Be Involved In The NFL Anthem Controversy"?

You answered your own question with a yes, and gave the reasons why: "defend the flag, anthem, moral reason, etc. Then later you shifted completely to he intentionally and strategically "stoked" and 'inflamed' people as part of his "bag of tricks" to beat democrats. All of which seems like it would be the antithesis to the reasons in your opening post.

Now in your last response you again shift the topic of discussion, this time away from Trumps involvement that you originally asked for opinions about to the NFL's handling of it. I doubt anyone disagrees with the notion that the NFL have botched. No argument there.

As I said before I probably will bow out of the discussion now. I only answered this because you directed it at me and quoted me when you replied and I couldn't understand how it related to my point or the discussion about Trumps involvement.

Again no disrespect intended just having a hard time following you. Have a nice evening.