Contact information for your fisheries biologist

[mhall]

Peter I sent it to you today

[peter]

From: Ross, Jeff (FW)
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2020 4:10 PM
To: Mark Hall
Subject: RE: Special regulations at Cumberland

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your concern about tournament pressure, size limit exemptions, and the overall health of the bass populations at Lake Cumberland. Please be assured that your comments are being taken seriously and will play a part in any regulation decisions concerning black bass size limit exemptions in Kentucky.

A little background information is required to best explain the process that has occurred so far. Back in 2013, the Kentucky High School Athletic Association began the process of creating bass fishing as a sanctioned high school sport. Through discussions with the KHSAA and FLW (their partner in the endeavor), KDFWR agreed to allow black bass size limit exemptions at two of the regional tournaments and also the state KHSAA finals. The two regional tournaments take place on Lake Cumberland and Cave Run Lake. The impetus was to allow enough of the high school participants to qualify for the finals and create an interest for more high school students to participate. This agreement has continued and now also includes the Kentucky Christian Athletic Association Schools. Once again, only exempting the regional and final tournaments.

During this time, discussions also arose from other tournament groups, both big and small about the potential for expanded exemptions. This is something that is allowed in such states as Florida and Kansas. The Department did not want to jump right into the expansion, but instead asked the KDFWR Commission for an approval to conduct a three-year study looking at the impacts of exemption tournaments both from a fish mortality standpoint and also from public perception. The last thing we would want to do is harm a fish population that is already protected under special regulations.

The Fisheries Division was granted permission by our Commission to conduct 4 tournaments a year (2 spring and 2 fall) at both Lake Cumberland and Cave Run Lake for three years. These tournaments would be used to determine the amount of mortality that is occurring, especially on those fish that would normally be protected. We need to see how much mortality is occurring on the water prior to weigh-in, weigh-in mortality, and post release mortality (approximately 1 week). The tournaments are only allowed in the spring and fall when water temperatures are cool (no tournaments after May and no tournaments before October).

Tournament selection has been based on trying to sample both small and large tournaments, and their differing fish handling abilities. Many of the tournaments are selected from those that have registered on our voluntary tournament scheduling site. It may appear that the larger affiliations are being preferentially selected, but when you look at all of the exemption tournaments so far, they include several charity tournaments, local sponsored tournaments, several high school tournaments outside of the KHSAA and KCAA, and a veteran’s memorial tournament.

We are beginning the third year of the tournament exemption study next spring and it will conclude next fall. At that point all results will be presented to the KDFWR Commission. Along with the tournament results, any public input (for or against) will also be factored into the discussions. Nothing can move forward with tournament exemptions, without the Commission approving a regulation change. As a result, the public will have several opportunities to provide their input, including attending the Commission meetings and also providing public comment as you have done with your email.

KDFWR is aware of high fishing pressure occurring at many lakes across the state, but to this point has tried not to limit the fishing opportunities for any one group. KDFWR manages the resource for the health of the fishery and the enjoyment of anglers. We seek to balance the needs of various user groups both tournament anglers and non-tournament anglers despite the fact that their needs and requests can be quite different. We do not receive any extra funding in our budget based on the amount of tournaments that are on a lake.

Once again, thank you for your thoughts and concerns about this study and potential implications to the fishery. All input will be factored into the final decision after the study has concluded.


Jeff Ross
Assistant Director - Fisheries Division
Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources
#1 Sportsman's Lane
Frankfort, Ky 40601
Phone: (502) 892-4455
Fax: (502) 564-3178



From: Mark Hall
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 9:29 AM
To: FW Webmaster <[email protected]>
Subject: Special regulations at Cumberland


Why is the KDFWR allowing special regulations for tournaments at Lake Cumberland. Allowing under sized smallmouth to be kept and weighed is endangering more of our resources than it should be especially in the Spring when female fish are already stressed making babies. If the FLW, high school tournaments, college and what not can’t catch 18 inch smallmouth like the rest of us maybe they should find another lake to fish.

Now I see where B.AS.S. are going to start up down there in the Spring of 2020 and I’m sure they too have already been promised special regulation provisions. Well I call foul and this is nothing more than the almighty dollar speaking. Tournament pressure on Cumberland has became ‘’RIDICULOUS’’ in the last several years. Hundreds of boats every weekend with KVD wannabe’s running all over the lake like mad men with rude behavior and then dead floaters all over the ramps after they leave. I know they are there I see them. When will some moderation be even considered for the insane amount of pressure these fish are receiving all over the state. I fish Michigan every Spring and they have a system that does NOT allow catch and keep until June 1^st on all bass. This stops the tournaments other than the catch photo and release formats. Well guess what they have bass fisheries that DESTROY ours maybe there is something to that deal…ya think.

Back to the subject at hand. Myself and others plan to send emails and what ever we can to you guys to tell you how poorly we feel about you allowing special regulations for these tournaments. Maybe just maybe you should listen and consider our concerns as they are very valid.

Thank you
Sincerly



Mark Hall


Somewhat related thread:
http://www.fishin.com/forums2/showth...mberland-12-27

[R19]

LOL...After typing his response he must of used the copy and paste feature because this is the exact same response I got word for word.

Now people can say I am wearing a tinfoil hat or that I am being to skeptical if they want but I want to dissect one statement that was made in that email response. " We do not receive any extra funding in our budget based on the amount of tournaments that are on a lake".

KDFW budget is funded by anglers hunting and fishing license fees. FLW has had multiple events with right at 200 (around 180ish) boater and co anglers for a total of 360 or more people. Of that 360 there is a big portion of them who are out of state anglers. Based on their official practice days and the actual days of the event, if an angler makes it to the final day they will need at minimum a 1 week out of state license. If they pre fish any before the official practice days they will need an out of state license for the entire year. When people are fishing for 100K I bet they pre-fish as much as they can so the overwhelming majority will need an yearly out of state license.

Charlie Evan who is the Tournament Director for FLW said after the 2017 FLW Tour event that FLW would not return to Cumberland unless they got an exemption on the smallmouth size limit. So when KDFW says yes you can have a size limit exemption then by default they are receiving extra funding to their budget by allowing undersize smallmouth in FLW events. A non resident year long is $55 and 7 day is $35. Multiply that number buy 100 or 200 people and you soon start seeing a good size number. With their budget being funded by license fees that makes his statement of "We do not receive any extra funding in our budget based on the amount of tournaments that are on a lake" seem to be not true by default.

Here is another quote from that email.

" We are beginning the third year of the tournament exemption study next spring and it will conclude next fall. At that point all results will be presented to the KDFWR Commission. Along with the tournament results, any public input (for or against) will also be factored into the discussions. Nothing can move forward with tournament exemptions, without the Commission approving a regulation change. As a result, the public will have several opportunities to provide their input, including attending the Commission meetings and also providing public comment as you have done with your email."

This is why if you feel like everyone should have the same regulation and no one should have exemptions that it is important you reach out to you fisheries biologist and voice your concern. This is the reason I started this thread to begin with. Your fisheries biologist contact can be found in reply #1 of this thread. Just click on the link and select the County in which you want to contact a biologist.

[mhall]

LOL...After typing his response he must of used the copy and paste feature because this is the exact same response I got word for word.

Now people can say I am wearing a tinfoil hat or that I am being to skeptical if they want but I want to dissect one statement that was made in that email response. " We do not receive any extra funding in our budget based on the amount of tournaments that are on a lake".

KDFW budget is funded by anglers hunting and fishing license fees. FLW has had multiple events with right at 200 (around 180ish) boater and co anglers for a total of 360 or more people. Of that 360 there is a big portion of them who are out of state anglers. Based on their official practice days and the actual days of the event, if an angler makes it to the final day they will need at minimum a 1 week out of state license. If they pre fish any before the official practice days they will need an out of state license for the entire year. When people are fishing for 100K I bet they pre-fish as much as they can so the overwhelming majority will need an yearly out of state license.

Charlie Evan who is the Tournament Director for FLW said after the 2017 FLW Tour event that FLW would not return to Cumberland unless they got an exemption on the smallmouth size limit. So when KDFW says yes you can have a size limit exemption then by default they are receiving extra funding to their budget by allowing undersize smallmouth in FLW events. A non resident year long is $55 and 7 day is $35. Multiply that number buy 100 or 200 people and you soon start seeing a good size number. With their budget being funded by license fees that makes his statement of "We do not receive any extra funding in our budget based on the amount of tournaments that are on a lake" seem to be not true by default.

Here is another quote from that email.

" We are beginning the third year of the tournament exemption study next spring and it will conclude next fall. At that point all results will be presented to the KDFWR Commission. Along with the tournament results, any public input (for or against) will also be factored into the discussions. Nothing can move forward with tournament exemptions, without the Commission approving a regulation change. As a result, the public will have several opportunities to provide their input, including attending the Commission meetings and also providing public comment as you have done with your email."

This is why if you feel like everyone should have the same regulation and no one should have exemptions that it is important you reach out to you fisheries biologist and voice your concern. This is the reason I started this thread to begin with. Your fisheries biologist contact can be found in reply #1 of this thread. Just click on the link and select the County in which you want to contact a biologist.

Perfectly stated R-19. I think you and I are on an Island by ourselves bro......what you said was the same things I scoffed at as well. Money drives the bus and its driving this one for sure.

[Fntsyfbgod]

I sent a message but it was in support of the tournament exception. Just my opinion but I think it’s a good thing for several reasons.

[R19]

Although we have different opinions I still respect yours. I can't recall if I mentioned on this thread or another post but if the size limit was changed to 15" for everyone it would not bother me. I don't keep bass and I rarely fish a tournament so 15" or 18" is not going to make a big difference to me personally but I do like the 18" limit better. Reason being I can recall fishing Cumberland in the late 80's and early 90's when it was 15" and I think the overall health and population is better with the 18" size limit verses when it was 15" many years ago. I doubt the 18" size limit is the only factor for the improved health and quality of smallmouth in Lake Cumberland but I am positive it did play a key role.

What I have a problem with is making exemptions for certain groups. Smallmouth as well as all fish are a natural resource than can not protect themself. I do not like having regulations on everything but when it comes to a natural resource like fish they do need regulations. Those regulations should apply equally for everyone...again just my opinion and I respect anyone who has one different than mine.

[gocards40]

I have to admit that I don’t keep up with this kind of stuff. I’m not a tournament guy and never have been although I have many friends that like that kind of competition.

My question would be this. Is the old school catch, keep, weigh, release the best way to handle this kind of competition?

I’m almost 100 percent Kayak fisherman now days. My boat sits most of the year. The Kayak tournaments catch, measure, release. I would think there is less harm to the fish by doing so. Just my opinion but I think that’s a much better way to handle it and a special reg would not really matter if that was the case.

[Fntsyfbgod]

I’ve been tournament fishing since I was in high school 20+ years and I do understand the frustration you show up at your lake and it’s packed or they are in a big rush everywhere. But tournaments do a lot for bass fishing. We wouldn’t have the quality fisheries we do if it wasn’t for catch and release and that’s something tournaments pushed. All the new lures, electronics, boats ect a lot of that comes from the competition of tournaments.

The biggest complaint I’ve heard is why should tournament anglers get special treatment. By working with tournaments your providing a huge economic boost the area. Large national tournaments have avoided Cumberland, Laurel and dale hollow due to size regulations costing the state millions. Not just what the tournaments bring but by showcasing what can be caught will bring in tourism. For years Florida hurt themselves with regulations but attracted big pro events partly by allowing tournament exemptions. Normally you can only keep one fish over 16in. And the result has been more and more people going winter fishing there not that they needed more tourists lol.

Another point not mentioned is it promotes better fish care. I participated in a test event and they made sure we had aerators and the exemption will not be available in summer months when fish mortality is higher. As a result if the exemption is available more tournaments will be scheduled in spring and fall.

Will a few more bass die because of the exemption? Yes in cases where more fish are weighed in but I think it’s going to be very minimal. Also to be honest I’ve noticed lot of the bass that I had die in tournaments are hooked deep or in a bad spot and in my opinion would not have made it anyway, taking them for a boat ride isn’t a big factor when it’s not the summer months.

I just haven’t heard a good reason there shouldn’t be a tournament exemption vs the positives. Saying your putting more bass at risk isn’t a good point in my opinion you have to weigh the positives if that’s your reasoning for management policy you might as well outlaw live bait, barbs and treble hooks.

I guess we will find out what they decide in 2021 but for what it’s worth everyone involved in the text tournament studies and tournaments in general have also expressed their support

[stripernut1]

I must admit I've been wrong all these years trying to be so protective of the fishery. Through several people's views I have realized that the resource belongs to every one and is theirs to legally do what they feel like doing with their catch. so in light of this new found enlightenment I decided every legal smallmouth and largemouth up to my limit will go in the cooler and hit the cleaning table. there will be many fish fries at my house and some of you are invited as I catch several hundred legal smallmouth each year with several over 6lbs (those fish will be smoked for fish dip).
once again a very sincere thanks to all who have helped sway my decision to throw caution and concern to the wind.
tight lines and hot grease to all

[stripernut1]

obviously all of the guys that know me know I'm not serious....I would NEVER invite anyone to eat my fish

[Shellkat]

Stripernut: Dang I was totally floored when I read this , I had to back up and read it again. If you had caught several hundred smallys over 6 lb, me and you was going fishing!

[Shellkat]

You got me tore up, Let me edit ,Several hundred a year over 6 pound!!