Totalitarianism

[TimE]

Honestly I'm asking the same question of you all.

President Trump didn't "question the legitimacy of an election." He declared, with no qualification, the election was stolen. Over and over again. Dozens (hundreds) of statements proven, over and over again, to be false. One crazy theory gets shot down, they move on to the next, and people keep lapping it up.

Know how we know they were false? Look at the difference between what Trump claimed, and many Americans swallowed, and what his lawyers were actually willing to put forward in a court of law.

Know why what he claimed on Twitter and what his lawyers claimed in court differed so much? Because you can get disbarred or even thrown in jail for presenting baseless claims in court.

To believe the election was stolen is the worst of all Alex Jones-ish conspiracy theories. You have to believe that Republican officials, in Republican states, most of whom proven supporters of Trump, combined with Republican judges, many of whom were appointed by Trump and contributed to his campaigns, conspired to rig not only the election but the court cases, where 60 ELECTION FRAUD CLAIMS were laughed out of court. And please don't give me "they didn't even look at the evidence" BS - it's there online if you're willing to risk challenging your delusions.

I'm a Republican. Been conservative all my life. Didn't, couldn't, vote for Biden. But good Lord over half of my fellow GOP members have been taken in by this alternate reality and the damage to our nation is going to be long lasting.

First your opinion is no more valid than President Trump’s. The difference is he actually has support for his with the several states that are ACTIVELY investigating the fraud. No one, republican, democrat, or independent, believes that 80 million people voted for current resident. No one.

It is clear that republican officials allowed unconstitutional voting methods,counts, and lack of oversight. That is without question. How could they look at evidence that they never allowed or ordered to be gathered? You are talking in a circle. You do understand the meaning of discovery? Maricopa county in Arizona still won’t allow machines to be audited, even after a court order! Is that alex jones conspiracist theory?

Finally, the ballot harvesting,fraud, clarity, and legality of mass vote by mail schemes were identified well before the election. Trump’s only mistake was not fighting the fraud before it happened. As far as him calling it “stolen”? I don’t blame him a bit and I’m in the majority whether they admit it or not.

[jcb]

First your opinion is no more valid than President Trump’s. The difference is he actually has support for his with the several states that are ACTIVELY investigating the fraud. No one, republican, democrat, or independent, believes that 80 million people voted for current resident. No one.

I presented facts, and drew a conclusion logically tethered to those facts. President Trump's "stolen election" claim is an opinion that (to put it mildly) has not been substantiated.

So in your world, going 0 for 60 in court is outweighed by the fact that some states are holding investigations. Okay.

No one, republican, democrat, or independent, believes that 80 million people voted for current resident. No one.

It this statement just for effect or hyperbole? Because the 80 million people who voted for Biden disagree with you.

It is clear that republican officials allowed unconstitutional voting methods,counts, and lack of oversight. That is without question.

What is without question is that not ONE allegation, if proven instead of thrown out of court, could have possibly overturned the election.

One thing the many cases laughed out of court had in common was references to what one (GOP) judge called "garden variety election squabbles." Ever since there have been elections, there have been disputes. What "stolen election" adherents lack is the critical thinking necessary to distinguish between election disputes, which happen every election, and widespread election fraud. Trump took full advantage of this gullibility.

Name ONE specific fact that would have justified "stolen election" claims. Just one.

How could they look at evidence that they never allowed or ordered to be gathered? You are talking in a circle. You do understand the meaning of discovery? Maricopa county in Arizona still won’t allow machines to be audited, even after a court order! Is that alex jones conspiracist theory?

The huge advantage conspiracy theorists have is, when confronted with facts, all they need to do is fall back on "deep state" or "the system is rigged." This is a good example. Logical questions to ask if you want the truth about Arizona are: (1) Do the complainants have a right to do this by law? (2) Are there public interest reasons either for or against granting their request?

The reason the legislators' request to examine the machines was denied was because they were already tied up in court by other lawsuits from other GOP officials. Releasing the machines to someone else would mean they wouldn't be preserved intact. Pretty simple really. But that's what it takes, a willingness to look behind whatever is in Trump's tweets or in the headlines at OAN or Epoch Times and find out the real facts.

The last I read there was going to be some sort of investigation of the machines after all. Guess what they're going to find? Nothing. Just like the multiple other places where scary accusations of Dominion hacks have been shot to pieces and exposed as lies. Thing is, no one remembers the lies, they just move on to the next one.

Finally, the ballot harvesting,fraud, clarity, and legality of mass vote by mail schemes were identified well before the election. Trump’s only mistake was not fighting the fraud before it happened. As far as him calling it “stolen”? I don’t blame him a bit and I’m in the majority whether they admit it or not.

This election has been the most scrutinized in American history. If you're looking for ACTUAL patriots, it's the election officials across the country, both GOP and DEM, who worked to pull off the most contentious election in my lifetime during a global pandemic. And I while I disagree that the "stolen election" alternate reality people are in the majority, even if they were, it wouldn't be the first time the majority of people were dead wrong about something.

[Moveon]

I presented facts, and drew a conclusion logically tethered to those facts. President Trump's "stolen election" claim is an opinion that (to put it mildly) has not been substantiated.

So in your world, going 0 for 60 in court is outweighed by the fact that some states are holding investigations. Okay.



It this statement just for effect or hyperbole? Because the 80 million people who voted for Biden disagree with you.



What is without question is that not ONE allegation, if proven instead of thrown out of court, could have possibly overturned the election.

One thing the many cases laughed out of court had in common was references to what one (GOP) judge called "garden variety election squabbles." Ever since there have been elections, there have been disputes. What "stolen election" adherents lack is the critical thinking necessary to distinguish between election disputes, which happen every election, and widespread election fraud. Trump took full advantage of this gullibility.

Name ONE specific fact that would have justified "stolen election" claims. Just one.



The huge advantage conspiracy theorists have is, when confronted with facts, all they need to do is fall back on "deep state" or "the system is rigged." This is a good example. Logical questions to ask if you want the truth about Arizona are: (1) Do the complainants have a right to do this by law? (2) Are there public interest reasons either for or against granting their request?

The reason the legislators' request to examine the machines was denied was because they were already tied up in court by other lawsuits from other GOP officials. Releasing the machines to someone else would mean they wouldn't be preserved intact. Pretty simple really. But that's what it takes, a willingness to look behind whatever is in Trump's tweets or in the headlines at OAN or Epoch Times and find out the real facts.

The last I read there was going to be some sort of investigation of the machines after all. Guess what they're going to find? Nothing. Just like the multiple other places where scary accusations of Dominion hacks have been shot to pieces and exposed as lies. Thing is, no one remembers the lies, they just move on to the next one.




This election has been the most scrutinized in American history. If you're looking for ACTUAL patriots, it's the election officials across the country, both GOP and DEM, who worked to pull off the most contentious election in my lifetime during a global pandemic. And I while I disagree that the "stolen election" alternate reality people are in the majority, even if they were, it wouldn't be the first time the majority of people were dead wrong about something.

If these voting machines were so bad then how come the elected State Senators and US Senators for the GOP. The very same voting machines were used in Georgia and they did three recounts with paper ballot receipts used to check the voting machine counts. No major discrepancies.

I can't believe we still have to discuss this.

[pontooner]

I presented facts, and drew a conclusion logically tethered to those facts. President Trump's "stolen election" claim is an opinion that (to put it mildly) has not been substantiated.

So in your world, going 0 for 60 in court is outweighed by the fact that some states are holding investigations. Okay.



It this statement just for effect or hyperbole? Because the 80 million people who voted for Biden disagree with you.



What is without question is that not ONE allegation, if proven instead of thrown out of court, could have possibly overturned the election.

One thing the many cases laughed out of court had in common was references to what one (GOP) judge called "garden variety election squabbles." Ever since there have been elections, there have been disputes. What "stolen election" adherents lack is the critical thinking necessary to distinguish between election disputes, which happen every election, and widespread election fraud. Trump took full advantage of this gullibility.

Name ONE specific fact that would have justified "stolen election" claims. Just one.



The huge advantage conspiracy theorists have is, when confronted with facts, all they need to do is fall back on "deep state" or "the system is rigged." This is a good example. Logical questions to ask if you want the truth about Arizona are: (1) Do the complainants have a right to do this by law? (2) Are there public interest reasons either for or against granting their request?

The reason the legislators' request to examine the machines was denied was because they were already tied up in court by other lawsuits from other GOP officials. Releasing the machines to someone else would mean they wouldn't be preserved intact. Pretty simple really. But that's what it takes, a willingness to look behind whatever is in Trump's tweets or in the headlines at OAN or Epoch Times and find out the real facts.

The last I read there was going to be some sort of investigation of the machines after all. Guess what they're going to find? Nothing. Just like the multiple other places where scary accusations of Dominion hacks have been shot to pieces and exposed as lies. Thing is, no one remembers the lies, they just move on to the next one.




This election has been the most scrutinized in American history. If you're looking for ACTUAL patriots, it's the election officials across the country, both GOP and DEM, who worked to pull off the most contentious election in my lifetime during a global pandemic. And I while I disagree that the "stolen election" alternate reality people are in the majority, even if they were, it wouldn't be the first time the majority of people were dead wrong about something.

Bravo!!!! This is perhaps the best post I've ever read on here. It's sad though that it's going to fall on deaf ears because there is no amount of facts that can pierce the information bubble that these folks live in.

The fact that they couldn't even separate your question that just asked "Hey Bone, could you give an example of "Questioning the legitimacy of an election has now been labeled terrorism?" from the actual act of the domestic terrorist that stormed the Capitol to try and stop the electoral certification. I guess chanting "hang Mike Pence" and looking to take members of congress as hostages or worse doesn't qualify as terrorism in their view. It really shows you exactly how hyperpartisan a segment from the right has become.

Again great post, that simply eviscerated every talking point he made.

[Moveon]

Bravo!!!! This is perhaps the best post I've ever read on here. It's sad though that it's going to fall on deaf ears because there is no amount of facts that can pierce the information bubble that these folks live in.

The fact that they couldn't even separate your question that just asked "Hey Bone, could you give an example of "Questioning the legitimacy of an election has now been labeled terrorism?" from the actual act of the domestic terrorist that stormed the Capitol to try and stop the electoral certification. I guess chanting "hang Mike Pence" and looking to take members of congress as hostages or worse doesn't qualify as terrorism in their view. It really shows you exactly how hyperpartisan a segment from the right has become.

Again great post, that simply eviscerated every talking point he made.

The facts presented by jcb and pontooner are right on the money. I don't really do that much work these days as I know that as you say "they fall on deaf ears. These people. Geo, TimE, Bonefish, and a few others don't read what we post. To them were are just left-wing people to be looked down on. So I stopped wasting my time telling them the real facts most of the time. I still do somewhat. A good friend of mine told me to just ridicule them. They spend all their time on FoX and listing to Right Wing radio shows all the time so their minds are closed to real facts. We could make posts like his all day long and they won't read it or if they read it they just ignore the real facts.

There is another web forum or two that I frequent from time to time and they are the very same way. Full of right-wing people who won't listen to the real news programs. You can't reason with them. The guy that runs the web forum that I went to is a right-winger who thinks that ANTIFA led the insurrection on the US Capitol Building and that only a few Trump supporters were there innocently. My god where do these people get these lies? This country needs to shut down lying TV entertainment shows like Fox. If I really thought that reasoning with these people would work then I would do so. I still love to see you guys put these right-wing radicals in their place though. So keep it up. I'll continue to make fun of them in the meantime.

[pontooner]

The facts presented by jcb and pontooner are right on the money. I don't really do that much work these days as I know that as you say "they fall on deaf ears. These people. Geo, TimE, Bonefish, and a few others don't read what we post. To them were are just left-wing people to be looked down on. So I stopped wasting my time telling them the real facts most of the time. I still do somewhat. A good friend of mine told me to just ridicule them. They spend all their time on FoX and listing to Right Wing radio shows all the time so their minds are closed to real facts. We could make posts like his all day long and they won't read it or if they read it they just ignore the real facts.

There is another web forum or two that I frequent from time to time and they are the very same way. Full of right-wing people who won't listen to the real news programs. You can't reason with them. The guy that runs the web forum that I went to is a right-winger who thinks that ANTIFA led the insurrection on the US Capitol Building and that only a few Trump supporters were there innocently. My god where do these people get these lies? This country needs to shut down lying TV entertainment shows like Fox. If I really thought that reasoning with these people would work then I would do so. I still love to see you guys put these right-wing radicals in their place though. So keep it up. I'll continue to make fun of them in the meantime.

Yeah I don't even bother trying to reason with these right wing media brainwashed types anymore. Just look at Tim E's response to what jcb wrote and realize that there are million and millions of these people out there. It's a sad state of affairs and I don't know what the answer is to get these folks back into the realm of reality. You can't just reverse the effects of 25+ years of right wing media demonizing the left and then add in that over the years you have the Republican party wrapping themselves in the flag while embracing the rhetoric promoted by the fraudsters in the right wing media industry.

They cry that the media is skewed to the left, well maybe that's mostly because the truth happens to fall that way more often than not. They'll try to equate the coverage by Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, Breitbart, Epoch Times.... with CNN, CBS, NBC, New York Times, Washington Times... when it's like comparing someone getting a speeding ticket for doing 65mph in a 55mph zone to someone who got a speeding ticket doing 110mph in a 55mph zone. Yeah they both broke the law and got speeding tickets but one is so much more worse than the other it's not even worth comparing them.

Over the past 4 years I keep finding myself coming back to a couple of sayings when dealing with these folks.

It's a lot easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they've been fooled.

You're entitled to your opinions but you're not entitled to your own facts.

[jcb]

It's a lot easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they've been fooled.

You're entitled to your opinions but you're not entitled to your own facts.

Prove someone's wrong, they might accept it eventually.

Prove someone's been conned, they'll never forgive you.

[Moveon]

Prove someone's wrong, they might accept it eventually.

Prove someone's been conned, they'll never forgive you.

You have to be really stupid to fall for Trump's cons. I guess birds of a feather flock together.

BTW TimE has Zero facts and is a blatant liar in here. The poor guy is a squint-eyed Chinese spy and traitor to the US.

[Bonefish]

In the end the truth always comes to the surface. Thanks for all the comments.

[TimE]

In the end the truth always comes to the surface. Thanks for all the comments.

Yep. I urge everyone to go watch Senator Rand Paul destroy staphylococcus on abc. You can find it on YouTube or on Sen. Paul’s twitter.

[Moveon]

Yep. I urge everyone to go watch Senator Rand Paul destroy staphylococcus on abc. You can find it on YouTube or on Sen. Paul’s twitter.

Rand Paul is one of the Kooks in the US Senate. He is as batty as a fruit cake.

[TimE]

I presented facts, and drew a conclusion logically tethered to those facts. President Trump's "stolen election" claim is an opinion that (to put it mildly) has not been substantiated.

You have not presented one fact yet. Not a single one.

So in your world, going 0 for 60 in court is outweighed by the fact that some states are holding investigations. Okay.

More of your lames stream media facts I presume? Here is a few REAL FACTS instead of the propaganda you are repeating

81 total cases on 2020 elections.

72 cases involved illegal voting. ZERO evidence has been allowed.

30 cases remain open.

It this statement just for effect or hyperbole? Because the 80 million people who voted for Biden disagree with you.

Plenty of visual and statistical evidence supports my statement. As usual, yours is without fact.

What is without question is that not ONE allegation, if proven instead of thrown out of court, could have possibly overturned the election.

More baseless pondering.

One thing the many cases laughed out of court had in common was references to what one (GOP) judge called "garden variety election squabbles." Ever since there have been elections, there have been disputes. What "stolen election" adherents lack is the critical thinking necessary to distinguish between election disputes, which happen every election, and widespread election fraud. Trump took full advantage of this gullibility.

If any judge regardless of affiliation “laughed” a case out of court they have failed to uphold their oath and Not worthy to sit on bench.

Name ONE specific fact that would have justified "stolen election" claims. Just one.

The absolute unconstitutional rigging of ballot measures without going through constitutionally mandated legislature branch. The constitution does not grant executive or judicial branch power to write or change election law. Pandemic or not!

The huge advantage conspiracy theorists have is, when confronted with facts, all they need to do is fall back on "deep state" or "the system is rigged." This is a good example. Logical questions to ask if you want the truth about Arizona are: (1) Do the complainants have a right to do this by law? (2) Are there public interest reasons either for or against granting their request?

The reason the legislators' request to examine the machines was denied was because they were already tied up in court by other lawsuits from other GOP officials. Releasing the machines to someone else would mean they wouldn't be preserved intact. Pretty simple really. But that's what it takes, a willingness to look behind whatever is in Trump's tweets or in the headlines at OAN or Epoch Times and find out the real facts.

Lol, I guess you missed the part about the court order? I have never read one article or viewed any report from oan or epoch times. I do admit I would likely rank their reports over your source, late nite wannabe comedians.

The last I read there was going to be some sort of investigation of the machines after all. Guess what they're going to find? Nothing. Just like the multiple other places where scary accusations of Dominion hacks have been shot to pieces and exposed as lies. Thing is, no one remembers the lies, they just move on to the next one.

Once again cloaking your opinion and presenting it as fact. That is a flawed tactic used by propagandists on the left. Anyone ever seen a montage of lame stream media of them using same phrases, buzzwords to drive their political message? In the old days we called it brainwashing.

This election has been the most scrutinized in American history. If you're looking for ACTUAL patriots, it's the election officials across the country, both GOP and DEM, who worked to pull off the most contentious election in my lifetime during a global pandemic. And I while I disagree that the "stolen election" alternate reality people are in the majority, even if they were, it wouldn't be the first time the majority of people were dead wrong about something.

This is 100% ridiculous and false. Bull**** frankly. Are you actually trying to deceive people into thinking that the blatant censorship, fake fact checking, concealment of factual reports, and clear media bias is scrutiny? Talk about those in alternate reality.

I will just say it straight out......remove your head out of ***.