And the winner of most deaths is ( insert drum role)

[kstonich]

I've read this 3 times and I honestly have no idea what your point is. We should outlaw cigarettes? We shouldn't push vaccinations for COVID? It's somehow to be hypocritical to be pro-vaccination and live in a country where tobacco addiction causes a lot of people to die?

The point is there is a large percentage of the population that lambasts non vaccinated people for not caring about others. Political factions are trying to mandate vaccinations thereby deciding for people what they should and should not do with their health. They are causing people to loose their jobs with no idea what to do when all of the medical professionals who are not vaccinated are fired, although they use the nice term furloughed.
My son is an EMT in Louisville who is unvaccinated and has had Covid already but has no intention of getting vaccinated, along with 40 percent of the other EMTs at the station house who will also be let go.
But the kicker here is there is nothing we are going to do to eliminate covid in our lifetime. It's not going away there is no debating that. I read where zoos were starting to vaccinate primates because they were getting covid. This virus whether man made or natural can't be checked or controlled .
So after more rambling once again if we are talking about saving lives which is a noble endeavor, tobacco should be outlawed plain and simple. If we can destroy peoples careers on the chance we can possibly save lives we must certainly do it when with out a doubt we can save the lives of smokers. But we don't. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy in the approach being taken by politicians. Personally I don't think that their motivation has anything to do with saving people. It's simply another tactic to devide and bring down our nation. To make the population totally reliant on the government to the point we will give all of our freedoms away so they can protect and take care of us.
Just think we're are headed to the demise of a once proud nation that is being overtaken without a shot even being fired

[jcb]

The point is there is a large percentage of the population that lambasts non vaccinated people for not caring about others. Political factions are trying to mandate vaccinations thereby deciding for people what they should and should not do with their health. They are causing people to loose their jobs with no idea what to do when all of the medical professionals who are not vaccinated are fired, although they use the nice term furloughed.
My son is an EMT in Louisville who is unvaccinated and has had Covid already but has no intention of getting vaccinated, along with 40 percent of the other EMTs at the station house who will also be let go.
But the kicker here is there is nothing we are going to do to eliminate covid in our lifetime. It's not going away there is no debating that. I read where zoos were starting to vaccinate primates because they were getting covid. This virus whether man made or natural can't be checked or controlled .
So after more rambling once again if we are talking about saving lives which is a noble endeavor, tobacco should be outlawed plain and simple. If we can destroy peoples careers on the chance we can possibly save lives we must certainly do it when with out a doubt we can save the lives of smokers. But we don't. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy in the approach being taken by politicians. Personally I don't think that their motivation has anything to do with saving people. It's simply another tactic to devide and bring down our nation. To make the population totally reliant on the government to the point we will give all of our freedoms away so they can protect and take care of us.
Just think we're are headed to the demise of a once proud nation that is being overtaken without a shot even being fired

The flaw in your analogy, as Zora Spook I think pointed out, is that smoking is a voluntary act and COVID isn't. And while second hand smoke is harmful, it's hardly the same as getting COVID because someone else didn't take basic precautions.

As for the work guidelines, hardly anyone smokes inside anymore on the job. So if someone is a smoker, and goes out to the loading dock to get their fix, they aren't harming anyone but themselves. But you don't get that choice with COVID, and therefore the employer has more of a duty to provide a safe environment for workers.

[ZoraSpook]

The flaw in your analogy, as Zora Spook I think pointed out, is that smoking is a voluntary act and COVID isn't. And while second hand smoke is harmful, it's hardly the same as getting COVID because someone else didn't take basic precautions.

As for the work guidelines, hardly anyone smokes inside anymore on the job. So if someone is a smoker, and goes out to the loading dock to get their fix, they aren't harming anyone but themselves. But you don't get that choice with COVID, and therefore the employer has more of a duty to provide a safe environment for workers.

Well said, bravo.

[kstonich]

I agree with you about smoking being regulated in certain areas and that it is easier to avoid smokers than an invisible virus. I merely mentioned smoking as an example of fatalities that are preventable.

What bothers me is that I've had tested positive for covid 2x so far ( no symptoms) I in theory have immunity on par with those who have been vaccinated. I would assume that I'm not alone and there are a significant part of our population that is like me.
There is some debate as to the level of protection provided. Since this is a new virus its tough to tell what's more effective, we won't know for along time as things are so fluid.
But we do see from data that the vaccines effectiveness is now being reduced either due to time or mutations of the virus. We don't know the same about natural immunity although I would assume its effectiveness is on par with the vaccine.
From what I read both vaccinated an unvaccinated can carry and transmit the virus.
I live in a small town, last week there were 9 people hospitalized 5 unvaccinated and 4 vaccinated. Extremely small sample size I know, I would guess its more like 70/30 in other places
I for one would think that if there is this push for everyone to get vaccinated, I should be able to be tested to show I also have the anti-bodies in my system. But it doesn't seem likes that's an option unfortunately.
I would think we should be focusing on treatment ( and I assume we are),knowing that this virus will keep mutating.
I don't think that information will be released with the push for the jab is in full force.
But in the mean time I will continue to wear my mask when recommended not just mandated, I use hand sanitizer try and stay away from people where I can. I don't feel my actions are reckless or putting anyone else in danger due to the reasons I mentioned above. I wish everyone well and hope at some point we can get past this crap.
I appreciate being able to have a discussion about different points of view without it getting into a name calling contest, its kind of refreshing from what I have read in this off topic forum.

[Moveon]

I agree with you about smoking being regulated in certain areas and that it is easier to avoid smokers than an invisible virus. I merely mentioned smoking as an example of fatalities that are preventable.

What bothers me is that I've had tested positive for covid 2x so far ( no symptoms) I in theory have immunity on par with those who have been vaccinated. I would assume that I'm not alone and there are a significant part of our population that is like me.
There is some debate as to the level of protection provided. Since this is a new virus its tough to tell what's more effective, we won't know for along time as things are so fluid.
But we do see from data that the vaccines effectiveness is now being reduced either due to time or mutations of the virus. We don't know the same about natural immunity although I would assume its effectiveness is on par with the vaccine.
From what I read both vaccinated an unvaccinated can carry and transmit the virus.
I live in a small town, last week there were 9 people hospitalized 5 unvaccinated and 4 vaccinated. Extremely small sample size I know, I would guess its more like 70/30 in other places
I for one would think that if there is this push for everyone to get vaccinated, I should be able to be tested to show I also have the anti-bodies in my system. But it doesn't seem likes that's an option unfortunately.
I would think we should be focusing on treatment ( and I assume we are),knowing that this virus will keep mutating.
I don't think that information will be released with the push for the jab is in full force.
But in the mean time I will continue to wear my mask when recommended not just mandated, I use hand sanitizer try and stay away from people where I can. I don't feel my actions are reckless or putting anyone else in danger due to the reasons I mentioned above. I wish everyone well and hope at some point we can get past this crap.
I appreciate being able to have a discussion about different points of view without it getting into a name calling contest, its kind of refreshing from what I have read in this off topic forum.

One thing I would note is that if you get vaccinated after having Covid and recovering you are better protected. 8X more protected from what I have read. You have a good immune system if you recovered from Covid. Why not make it better. That way you will have a vaccination card to show as proof of immunization. Not sure if they will ever give people a immunization card for having the Covid and recovering from it. You do know that people can get the Covid twice. And the second time it can be much worse than the first time for some people.

There are people saying that vaccinated people can get the virus and spread it. I think that is not true for the vast majority of healthy people that have been fully vaccinated. Now some or a few people who have weak immune systems that can't make antibodies can get infected even after being fully vaccinated. But that does not mean that all the vaccinated people can get the infection and spread it to others. Still, we need to get more people fully vaccinated. Why? Well, we can't get rid of this virus if only half of us in the human population gets fully vaccinated. If we have 100% vaccinations, then the virus would go away as it would not have any new host to replicate itself in. And if we don't get at least 80% the 20% unvaccinated are still enough people that the virus can infect and replicate itself in. And as long as the virus is replicating itself it can mutate, and a new more dangerous form can emerge. Thus, it's imperative for everyone to get vaccinated and to practice the other safety measure to make sure that these viruses spread is stopped.

[TimE]

Sleepy jo if we talking about china virus.

[Moveon]

Sleepy jo if we talking about china virus.

Hibernate dude

[ZoraSpook]

Hibernate dude

Hey.... no matter what anybody says about Mr Biden, he had accomplished one thing that has significantly improved the credibility of his party.
He made Kamala Harris disappear 😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜

[Moveon]

Hey.... no matter what anybody says about Mr Biden, he had accomplished one thing that has significantly improved the credibility of his party.
He made Kamala Harris disappear 

Bid is inclusive. You sure can't say that about people like Trump.

[ZoraSpook]

Bid is inclusive. You sure can't say that about people like Trump.

And Harris RECLUSIVE. 😂😂😂

[TimE]

Ol sleepy’s numbers keep climbing. Really embarrassing.

[Moveon]

Ol sleepy’s numbers keep climbing. Really embarrassing.

Yep. Good ole Joe is still sitting in the Oval office and Trump is digging his own grave now.