Border Drugs

[Buzzy]

Agree completely on the last point in that when a person dies the tough thing if first admitting to themselves they have s problem and need help that acceptance of personal responsibility is the paramount point and turning point where availability of counseling and housing needs be provided. We agree on that sir.

Now take the person that uses drugs and drives under the influence. Stopped for tail light out, cop smells the reefer that’s probable cause to believe driver might represent a potential safe driving threat to others. I know neither you or I want a friend, family member, or relative injured because sone one under the influence failed to drive safely. I know we agree on that.

That driver if under the influence needs arrested to get him out from behind the wheel. And when he’s release on bail/ pending trial his probation ought to include counseling to see if the person takes responsibility. If they do, the I say sentence them to probation and mandatory counseling and if they fail to appear for that betraying the courts trust that they want to get better, then lick them up and while locked up sign them back up for the 12 step process and counseling while we have them locked up affirming them “ free housing and meals and medical care” until they complete rehabilitation .

That’s not a lack off mercy but Care, that’s forcing someone to get better when they fail to be able to do so under their own control. To me, that is not cruel, it’s being unyielding to force someone to get help because we don’t want to see them come to harm because if a condition that is blocking their ability to get well.

I’m a retired vet and I agree a disabled vet coming home after an injury has to have the medical care needed available to them. DONT GET ME STARTED ON ALL THE WAYS VA COULD BE BETTER, my battery would go dead!

And I agree users ought be viewed just like any other person with a medical issue. As a vet I’ve had associates laugh when there were certain physical things my “ air droppable” knees would not let me do. I grinned, and turned and walked away, knowing **** well if I ever saw anyone attack them I’d still be the first to try to help stop it. Its not fun seeing a friend suffering and it’s **** hard living faced with the choice to force a friend to seek help. My batting average ***** on that account, some I helped and some I fell short. I carry that, and so I know that pain.

We are getting closer. But still you put too much power in the state to take away someones freedom unwillingly. The probable cause justification is simply something I cannot agree with on any level. They use weed to search because it is the only drug that has a real smell. I had some KILLER weed in my car up in michigan. Stunk to high heaven. Never once did I smoke before or on the road. But I smoke the hell out of it at camp. But with your rationale I should get charged and get sent to prison because of the SMELL. Which is BS.

Making them not illegal would drastically change care and outlook on users. It's a great divider, I've seen the strongest willed men succumb to addiction because the lack of empathy and understanding from our "hollier than thou" society.

Overdoses would not rise, crime would fall and more people would get help. We may be able to save someones friend, but others will say "hes a lost cause because he does (insert here)" which is the wrong mindset.

I've worked with rehab centers, handed out clean needles, any kind of harm reduction I can do within reason I try to do.

We need to look at "root cause" not the symptoms like you mentioned.

[dragmerc]

We need to look at "root cause" not the symptoms like you mentioned.

i think people are wired differently.
the high is better for some people than others.
i don't want to be high.
i want to be in control and know what's going on at all times.
maybe some get high to escape from a miserable life or living conditions.

[ZoraSpook]

We are getting closer. But still you put too much power in the state to take away someones freedom unwillingly. The probable cause justification is simply something I cannot agree with on any level. They use weed to search because it is the only drug that has a real smell. I had some KILLER weed in my car up in michigan. Stunk to high heaven. Never once did I smoke before or on the road. But I smoke the hell out of it at camp. But with your rationale I should get charged and get sent to prison because of the SMELL. Which is BS.

Making them not illegal would drastically change care and outlook on users. It's a great divider, I've seen the strongest willed men succumb to addiction because the lack of empathy and understanding from our "hollier than thou" society.

Overdoses would not rise, crime would fall and more people would get help. We may be able to save someones friend, but others will say "hes a lost cause because he does (insert here)" which is the wrong mindset.

I've worked with rehab centers, handed out clean needles, any kind of harm reduction I can do within reason I try to do.

We need to look at "root cause" not the symptoms like you mentioned.

I agree a person should not get arrested for the smell of weed in the car alone. But if the smell is present and the driver has bloodshot eyes, fails to be responsive to questions, an or fails to safely operate the vehicle. Then is DUI clear and simple.
Sincerely, have you actually seen someone arrested for the presence of smell alone, that was not in possession?

If a person decides to violate the law, then arrest may be warranted. That same person could have avoided arrest by not breaking a law.

We have different experiences. I’ve seen friends with drug issues get help and get clean, while keeping a job, with out ever being arrested for anything.

So if drugs were legal, and more easily acquired, what protects society from those that use, do not seek help, and drive under the influence? Is a better for a user to be arrested for possession and forced into rehab, or do you think it’s better to let selected folks continue to use and risk them drinking under the influence causing a crash, causing injuries, and facing far worse consequences? In my mind treating someone with humanity sometimes means making them make the right decisions.

[Buzzy]

I agree a person should not get arrested for the smell of weed in the car alone. But if the smell is present and the driver has bloodshot eyes, fails to be responsive to questions, an or fails to safely operate the vehicle. Then is DUI clear and simple.
Sincerely, have you actually seen someone arrested for the presence of smell alone, that was not in possession?

If a person decides to violate the law, then arrest may be warranted. That same person could have avoided arrest by not breaking a law.

We have different experiences. I’ve seen friends with drug issues get help and get clean, while keeping a job, with out ever being arrested for anything.

So if drugs were legal, and more easily acquired, what protects society from those that use, do not seek help, and drive under the influence? Is a better for a user to be arrested for possession and forced into rehab, or do you think it’s better to let selected folks continue to use and risk them drinking under the influence causing a crash, causing injuries, and facing far worse consequences? In my mind treating someone with humanity sometimes means making them make the right decisions.

I %100 have witnessed someone get arrested. Cop said he smelled weed. There was a piece the size of a big toenail clipping on the floor. Guy hand rolled cigs and had tobacco, cop said the papers were paraphernalia. Hauled off.

What is there to protect anyone from doing bad things? You are using the same exact rationale as the anti-gun crowd, if we make it illegal then it wont happen. Listen its gonna happen, what protects us is having places to do it and ways to move around the city. Want to know what would protect citizens from impaired drivers?

An actual public transportation system.

But NO ONE wants that because they need their "independence" to drive their car.

[ZoraSpook]

I %100 have witnessed someone get arrested. Cop said he smelled weed. There was a piece the size of a big toenail clipping on the floor. Guy hand rolled cigs and had tobacco, cop said the papers were paraphernalia. Hauled off. (SO HE WAS IN POSSESSION?) and by the way was he found guilty or not?

What is there to protect anyone from doing bad things? You are using the same exact rationale as the anti-gun crowd, if we make it illegal then it wont happen. (NO, IT WILL HAPPEN BUT THOSE THAT DO IT WILL BE PUNISHED, LEARN A LESSON, AND MIGHT NOT DO IT AGAIN)

Public transportation as the key to the drug use and reduced crime rates....hmmmmm:
- If bank robbers had to call a cab to leave the scene of the crime, you may be right.
- If drug users had to wait in line at Walgreens for an RX of their favorite illegal substance, and had to take a cab to get there, then yes, I agree the drug use would slow.
- Hey, what if we had a public buss sytems that would load up all the bank robbers and carry them from bank to bank downtown so we'd have fewer cars on the road, fewer police chases, and fewer vehicles emitting greehouse gasses?
- And what the hey, lets make free drugs avaialble on the busses that carry the robbers so that they can be more comfortable and relaxed when they commit armed robberies, so therefore they the robbers being more relaxed they would be less likely to fire their guns in anger.
- And lets set up a govt fund that pays bank robbers a stimulus check if they rob a bank with a gun and can prove they didn't fire any shots. that would reduce gun violence don't you think.

[dragmerc]

Public transportation as the key to the drug use and reduced crime rates....hmmmmm:
- If bank robbers had to call a cab to leave the scene of the crime, you may be right.
- If drug users had to wait in line at Walgreens for an RX of their favorite illegal substance, and had to take a cab to get there, then yes, I agree the drug use would slow.
- Hey, what if we had a public buss sytems that would load up all the bank robbers and carry them from bank to bank downtown so we'd have fewer cars on the road, fewer police chases, and fewer vehicles emitting greehouse gasses?
- And what the hey, lets make free drugs avaialble on the busses that carry the robbers so that they can be more comfortable and relaxed when they commit armed robberies, so therefore they the robbers being more relaxed they would be less likely to fire their guns in anger.
- And lets set up a govt fund that pays bank robbers a stimulus check if they rob a bank with a gun and can prove they didn't fire any shots. that would reduce gun violence don't you think.

why don't we just mail them a monthly dose paid for by the fed that just keeps printing money?
no dui, no buses, no bills, etc...

[ZoraSpook]

why don't we just mail them a monthly dose paid for by the fed that just keeps printing money?
no dui, no buses, no bills, etc...

Economically logical, reduces public transit load, supports the postal workers, and keeps the users at home pending shipment arrival instead on the streets. Yea....like it....nailed it.

[Buzzy]

Public transportation as the key to the drug use and reduced crime rates....hmmmmm:
- If bank robbers had to call a cab to leave the scene of the crime, you may be right.
- If drug users had to wait in line at Walgreens for an RX of their favorite illegal substance, and had to take a cab to get there, then yes, I agree the drug use would slow.
- Hey, what if we had a public buss sytems that would load up all the bank robbers and carry them from bank to bank downtown so we'd have fewer cars on the road, fewer police chases, and fewer vehicles emitting greehouse gasses?
- And what the hey, lets make free drugs avaialble on the busses that carry the robbers so that they can be more comfortable and relaxed when they commit armed robberies, so therefore they the robbers being more relaxed they would be less likely to fire their guns in anger.
- And lets set up a govt fund that pays bank robbers a stimulus check if they rob a bank with a gun and can prove they didn't fire any shots. that would reduce gun violence don't you think.

You are one dumbass I can’t deal with right now. Speaking in hyperbole.

When you bring something more intelligent we can interact.

this is 1st class ******** mindless lemming speak.

[ZoraSpook]

You are one dumbass I can’t deal with right now. Speaking in hyperbole.

When you bring something more intelligent we can interact.

this is 1st class ******** mindless lemming speak.

And yet when I posted it you responded to say you would not respond?????? Yea, okey dokey smokey.

[Buzzy]

And yet when I posted it you responded to say you would not respond?????? Yea, okey dokey smokey.

i think you’re confused again

[ZoraSpook]

[QUOTE=Buzzy;584726

Overdoses would not rise, crime would fall

How would crime be lowered? Managing the statistics is decriminalizing to have fewer arrests and so reporting lower crime rates.

And unless the drugs are free, those that need them still need money they may not have if not holding a job, right? So what will the unemployed user do to get the money to buy decriminalized drugs? Crime?

We need to look at "root cause" not the symptoms like you mentioned.[/QUOTE]

I think when we give a user a free clean needle, we would be doing the same thing as providing a free loaded, but safety equipped gun to a person suffering depression or with articulated suicidal thoughts. Neither you or I would do that of course.

I’d rather have an addicted friend hate me for the rest of his life for forcing him to get clean, then to no longer have that friend.

Jmho.

[Buzzy]

I think when we give a user a free clean needle, we would be doing the same thing as providing a free loaded, but safety equipped gun to a person suffering depression or with articulated suicidal thoughts. Neither you or I would do that of course.

I’d rather have an addicted friend hate me for the rest of his life for forcing him to get clean, then to no longer have that friend.

Jmho.

You have the wrong perception on that. Clean needles save taxpayers millions in dollars because these people arent going to the ER with arms so infected they look like there are going to rot off.

I'm not giving them unlimited fentanyl which would be more akin to your bogus analogy.

Listen I get it, you love living in a police state where they control your freedom and are your overlords. I dont.