Indiana tournament fees

[MikeAxsom]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 02:37PM (EST)[/font][p]I can't say what any particular fee is earmarked for, if it is earmarked for anything. In my agency we tend not to earmark funds. But it is not always realistic to expect to get more every time you have to pay more. That is true here and I have to assume it is true at Monroe and Patoka and Kentucky too. We have to pay for increased labor costs, higher utility rates, staggering equipment costs, and raising fuel costs just like you do at home. It just costs more to do the same thing. Sometimes it gets to the point that it costs more to do less. If you can figure out a way to change that, run for governor and I'll vote for you.

[bullrdr6]

Mike,

As an avid tournament fisherman, especially at Boggs, I have no problem with paying the usage fee/permit fee you require. I actually like the fact that only 1 tournament per day can be going on. It reduces the pressure on the lake and cuts down on the traffic.

Boggs actually seems to care about their fishery and how it will be in the future. I think that's my biggest complaint witht the state of Indiana. I've lived here for 6 years and have never seen a DNR officer at Patoka or Monroe except at the ramp collecting launch fees. I couldn't tell you one thing they've done to improve the fishery or the success of the fisherman.

I do know from experience that Boggs does creat structure for their fish. They monitor the catches of each of the tournaments and I've seen you out there talking to fishermen.

I don't think any tournament fisherman would have a problem paying an additional fee at a DNR lake if we could see some progress in the way they manage their fisheries. Maybe they should come and take notes on how Bogg's is managed.

Charlie

[Moose1am]

http://www.ai.org/dnr/

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/fish/

Copy and paste the above two web addresses. Then look at the fishing surveys on the page that comes up from the second link above or web address.

You will see that Indiana Fisheries Biologist have been very busy trying to manage our State Fisheries. They just need our support.

I am giving this to you since someone said they didn't know what the State was doing for us. With a little bit of research we can see what they have been doing and what they plan to do.

It's very easy to take a look at this from time to time to "GET IN THE KNOW".




Regards,

Moose1am

[DSPCHAMY]

Moose,

The Governor has nothing to do with budgets or re-appropriations of budgets. That is the state house of reps. You know the guy down the street that goes up to Indy for the fall and spring.

What has Mitch Daniels Sold off? Did we loose a county to Michigan that I was unaware of? Did Chicago buy Gary? Henderson purchased Evansville? Or are you talking about a Toll Road that was leased to a management company?

I think you need to take the leftist blinders off and understand the reality of the situation.

[MikeAxsom]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 07:54AM (EST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 07:50*AM (EST)[/font]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 07:47*AM (EST)[/font]

Charlie

I’m responding to your post, but this also applies to some of the comments I see from some of the other guys here. I’ve been told to stick with what I know, so I’m going to try to do that without too much opinion thrown in.

When you make such clear distinctions between West Boggs and the IDNR properties, you may not be aware of all the facts. It is true that West Boggs is a county property. But it is still a “public water” and that means it is still subject to State fish and Wildlife regulations. I’d love to be able to take credit for the total fisheries management here, because it is a great program. But the real expertise and all the science is provided by the IDNR Fisheries office out of Avoca, which also manages Monroe and all of the other public water fisheries in the district. Maybe our county agency is more involved with some related issues than some other properties, but if so we are involved in a great fisheries management plan developed by IDRN, not by us.

This does not carry over to the tournament regulations. The new state regs apply only to state managed lakes, and do not include West Boggs. Our tournament regs are local. This is not by-in-large, a fisheries issue with us, but a matter of limiting the ability of any single user group to dominate the use of the resource at the expense of other user groups. We want to allow tournament fishing, but not to the exclusion of others. That is why we limit the number of tournaments and close that use in the summer. If here are fisheries benefits to that as well, we welcome them; but that is just a bonus.

Most people don’t realize that for more than 10 years now, West Boggs had been using a 100% self funded management model. As opposed to tax supported facilities, we pay attention to user group mixtures, total revenue generation, focusing improvements on areas that people are willing to pay for, etc. So if it seems like we are less willing to be impressed that tournaments provide monies for some good causes elsewhere, it is because none of that ever helps us accomplish our mission. This new management model is showing a lot of promise. While everyone here has seen a series of budget cuts in most local, state and federal parks and recreation organizations over the same ten year period, our budget has more than doubled in that time. With no tax dollars.

We have done that by working to build our business traffic in those areas where people are most willing to pay us for services. I have to tell you that tournament fishing in general has shown the least interest in doing that. I never have a running battle with any other user group over fees. It is uncanny how many times we see people of limited means with an old car dripping oil and kids hanging out all the windows. They are often counting quarters and dimes to find the gate fee, and always smile and thank us for the opportunity to take the kids fishing. But we can almost tell when a guy turns in off the highway with a $40K truck pulling a $50K bass boat with a big motor, he is going to be foaming at the mouth about paying the gate fee. They just almost never seem to be really happy about much of anything. The lenght of this thread is an indicator of this same thing. And now there is going to be another petetion, and about what? Better management? New Ramps? Improved Habitat? Nope; NO NEW FEES! And you guys wonder why the IDNR guys don't come on these boards and join the discussions.

[bullrdr6]

Mike,

As mentioned before, I personally and I know several others as well don't have a problem with the additional fees as long as they are being used wisely. At Boggs, we can see where these funds are being used to improve the overall park as well as the fishing.

I enjoy fishing Boggs and think it is probably the best maintained fishery in Indiana. That's why I want to help out with the release boat. Anything we can do to improve and not damage the quality of fish.

With the IDNR I think I can speak for most of these guys where we see very little if any improvement with anything. That is the major complaint I have. I have no problems paying additional money if I know what its being used for and they can show the improvements. It's pretty sad when I live 45 minutes from Patoka but would rather drive 2 hours down to Barkley or KY lake to fish.

Charlie

[MikeAxsom]

Charlie,
Thanks for your kudos about West Boggs. In your last post you may have started to uncover some of the causes of frustration many of you guys many have with IDNR. You keep talking about wanting to help with fisheries management, and that is a good cause for an angler to want to support. But a lot of the complaints are about property issues, ramps, entrance fees, improvements, etc. Other complaints seems to focus on enforcement issues. Someone here, maybe you, said they had been stopped and checked more on West Boggs than all the other lake combined.

There is a whole range of managmeent dynamics within IDNR. The Division of Fish and Wildlife manages all public water fisheriesm including West Boggs and all the state reservoirs. But they have nothing at all to do with management of state reservoir properties. That is now the division of State Parks and Reservoirs. When I worked there, "back in the day" as the kids say, those were seperate divisions. I worked for Reservoirs. Reservoir propertty management was then very closely aligned to fish and wildlife management goals. I'm not sure that is the same today as Park management concepts tend to rule the new combined division. It just amy be a real factor that I still tend to manage more the way I leared, which was under the old IDNR Division of Reservoirs model; which is mor epro hunting and fishing and less tree hugger friendly.

In the enforcement issues, the guys and gals in the ICO uniforms that stop you on West Boggs are the same guys and gals who would stop you on Patoka. They are IDNR officers. They don't work for me, althogh I'm very glad to have them on our water. I suspect you may find that even one ICO on the water is more likely to find you on 622 acres of wter than on 10,000 acres or so.

[DSPCHAMY]

Mike,

I think you should talk to some of the local business in your area and see if they can tell a diffrence in a weekend with a tournament and a weekend without?

I work in the foodservice industry and call on some of the business' in your area. I know that there is an impact, but since you don't see their trafic comps, I don't think you are qualified to make those statements. Keep managing your fish, your good at that.

Furthermore, being in the foodservice industry I know of several operators that have opened early to service the tournament anglers that are coming into their area. I know that a major fast food location will be opening up at 430 after I asked him to stand outside his restaraunt and watch the traffic go buy on their way to the lake that early in Bloomington. I don't think the Jet skiers are rolling in that early.

I have never gone to a tournament at monroe and not seen guys filling up their boats at the circle K at 46 & 446, but maybe only 1% of them are fishing the tournament that happens to be going out of the ramps right down the street.

Last time I checked areas in KY were still paying for IN people to come down and hold tournaments on some of the lakes "rough river" So I guess they do that because tournaments don't generate any money for the area right? I guess those hotels around rough river would be full all the time without tournamnts there right?


One last thing the person that made the comment about the govenor using your fishing money for other stuff needs to go back to civics 101. The govenor does not control the budget the state reps and senate control the purse strings. While my man Mitch may appoint who runs the DNR he has no control over its budget or how it appropiates its monies. want to bitch about those things go directly to the source the people you elected to rep you from your town.

I would say this state does pretty well with tourism, maybe not generated by the water ways, but I would put our tourism up against Kentucky's anyday. Indy 500 Brickyard 400 F1 race, Big 10 tournaments NCAA tournaments, really don't think KY can hold a candle to the money generated from tourism from those events alone, much less other events that occure like conventions.

[Moose1am]

I took civic 101 and then some so I don't need to be told who does the budget. I have also worked in government and know a few things about who does the budgets. The IN Senate and House are both controlled by the Party of the present Governor. They work together to set the budgets mate. Don't ever forget that!

So maybe you didn't understand the gist of what I was saying. Now maybe you will see that I meant the IN republican party that's in total control of our state governemnt.


As for the tourism I was talking about well let me clarify that. Since we were talking about tourism on a Fishing discussion form I was talking about tourism from fishing and hunting and camping.

And those same guys that stop in to eat breakfast at 4:30 am will be mostly regular fishermen not always tournament guys. Many people go out to eat breakfast and buy minnows before they head to the still dark lake. I use to fish weeks at a time and always bought my breakfast at the camp where we stayed. I fished at least 14 days each year on KY lake and sometimes 21 days a year and helped support the economy around that lake. I am not alone. Sure tournament guys attract a lot of attention but they are not there every day like the regular Joe's who keep the mom and pop stores in business thoughout the entire season not for just one weekend.

Ask all the diners sitting at the table what they are going to do after they finish eating and you will see that there are a lot of people that may even be thinking about going for a boat ride or out for some water skiing.


Regards,

Moose1am

Regards,

Moose1am

[bullrdr6]

We're not talking about all other tourism events just fishing. But I'm sure KY can come closer than you think with things such as KY Derby, UK Basketball, Sparta Racetrack and misc other events.

I would say that with KY's various fisheries and the amount of tournaments held throughout the state that alone would compete with all of Indiana's tourism. Just look at the number of big tournaments that have been on KY Lake so far this year, FLW, Stren Series, BASS Elite, BASS Tour and numerous other 200 boat field tournaments. This fall there will be multiple 200-400 boat field tournaments going on every weekend through September and October. I also know that multiple chambers in the lake area pay out large sums of money to organizations to get them to come their areas because of the amount of money generated.

Charlie

[DSPCHAMY]

Bull,

Thats a joke right? about the Sparta Racetrack and KY Derby competeing against IMS?

I think the statement that was made was about tourism, not recreational tourism. Tax dollars are tax dollars in my opinion.

8.9 Billion dollars are spent on tourism in Indiana
8.7 Billion dollars are spent on tourism in Kentucky

So I will admit the spread is not as large as I thought, but it is still over 200 million dollars, I would love to have that drop in the bucket in my pocket.

[bullrdr6]

Honestly I could care less about IMS, Kentucky Derby or other events. I'm concerned with outdoor activities such as Fishing and Hunting. I've lived in both states and still hunt and fish in both, more so in KY because I think they have better programs and better opportunities for the money.

Indiana may promote tourism but they do not promote Fish and Wildlife. I don't know if there is a way to find out or not but I'm sure KY and ILL has much more revenue generated off of hunting and fishing than IN. Go talk to the guys at the Patoka office in Oakland City. They'll show you how many properties that they have people ready to sell to them to add to the Patoka WMA but they state will not help them get the money for the land. In fact some of our state politicians don't feel its a good investment or its not the states job to buy land to provide opportunities for outdoor recreation.

Charlie