Indiana tournament fees

[meathead]

I'm not referring to county or city owned lakes. I am referring to State Lakes. You do what you want with your lake that you are managing. It seems to be working pretty well. I was discussing state lakes and the new permit fee instituted last season.

[MikeAxsom]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you were referring to tournament fees in general. But actually some of the same things apply to state lakes, as they too are public properties. Since I used to work for IDNR, and still know many of the folks who do, I think they also beleive in general that any activity on the public lands for which a person has to pay money to a third party in order to participate, is to be considered a commercial use. That distinction may seem like not a big deal to you, but is does to a great many other people.

[Topwater2004]

I agree with you about using the public waters as a commercial event.

Look at the zoo recently on Kentucky Lake during the B.A.S.S. tournament. 150 boats, plus on Saturday and Sunday hundreds of boats from local tournaments, somebody was making a lot of money for sure.

[bullrdr6]

Look at all the revenue generated at the local business the last month or so down there due to these tournaments. Not only the competitors but also the people down there watching. I know personally I have spent several hundred dollars in that are in the last month on gas, hotels, food and tackle.

KY realizes how much revenue can and is generated by those lakes and they keep advertising and putting the lakes in the public view so it is even more utilized. They also put money and resources back into the area for improvements at the ramps and other areas.

Charlie

[bassman409]

Hey crappie, 99% of the people in my club always "help" the local economy. We stay at the local hotels and camp grounds.... We buy food, gas and anything else we happen to need. So I suggest before you start bad mouthing me about not helping any local economies you get your facts straight.
Kevin B.

[MikeAxsom]

Again I have to qualify my comments to only reflect my experience at one lake in one local economy, and I have no idea if this holds true everywhere. But some of the interactions we see with economic impact is often missed by people arguing in favor of tournaments.

Tournament anglers do often contribute to a local economy, when they buy goods and services in those local stores. There is no reason to believe that they do that more than so other anglers. To the contrary, they tend to be more organized and better prepared; which normally has them fully equipped when they leave home. Even these ongoing debates about fees indicate that they are extremely cost conscious. They purchase very little live bait or equipment from local bait/tackle shops, and they often get into the area in the wee hours before many other stores are open. Then they spend the day on the water for the tournament and when that is over they head for home. If they come from more than a few hours away, they do use a hotel or campground, normally for one night.

Recreational anglers, on the other hand, tend to be less organized overall, less focused on cost, bring more people and have longer stays in the area. They stay for 2 or 3 days on average, filling campsites and hotel rooms, and they sometimes buy some much at local food stores that they sell out of some items. Other local stores sell large volumes of low end fishing gear aimed at recreational users and kids. They also tend to want to experience the local restaurants, tourism venues and even things like auctions and flea markets.

Another thing that some of the pro-tournament arguments often leave out is that tournaments tend to discourage recreational anglers from using the same lake at the same time. We can show from our records that if we have more tournaments we will have fewer recreational users. When we regulate tournaments and have fewer, we gain recreational users. So, for all these reasons and others, it needs to be made clear that while tourism revenue generated from fishing is a very big deal to lake area economies, it is not accurate to say that the majority of this is due to tournaments. It is a common tactic in these discussions to try to use the total fishing tourism dollar figure for the pro-tournament argument, when a great deal of that money comes from people who just like to take the family fishing.

Does that mean we are anti-tournament? Not at all, as we have about 30 per year. But we are aware that many people promoting more tournaments at the expense of other users are not always telling the whole story.

[idbefishing]

One lake, one local economy like you said Mike but then you contradicted yourself at the end by talking about "pro tournament" that to me, is you talking about "pro tournament in general. People who comes in to your local area that are stock up at home maybe because there isn't a place where they can stop in at the "wee hour" to purchase stuff.

[MikeAxsom]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-06 AT 08:56AM (EST)[/font][p]Perhaps you're right and I should choose a term other than pro-tournament to describe people for want more tournaments as opposed to those who seem to want fewer. I meant Pro as opposed to Anti, and not Pro as in Professional. But my intent there at the end was to point out the tendency for people trying to make the case that tournaments contribute to local economies by citing total tourism dollars to support that position. In our experience here that is not justified.

I also think the tournament community is not well served to allow the hottest heads in their ranks to force the argument to be that they are more worthwhile than recreational users. That will place the whole issue in a political context, and the tournament anglers are going to be badly outnumbered there.

[bullrdr6]

Mike,

Speaking for the same lake you are I can tell you on the mornings that I've been on that lake and in the area there are a couple of businesses that definitely benefit from fishermen in general and definitely tournament anglers. I know myself and a couple of others that always stop at the same gas station for gas, sandwiches, snacks and a coffee refill before heading to the lake. We also stop at the local McDonalds or Wendy's on the way home. I can't say the tournament anglers stop more but if I didn't stop there 20-30 times a year that would definitely be some lost income.

Most of the time I don't buy the bulk of my tackle at the local tackle shops but very often I will stop in and usually buy 1 or 2 things I need to replace others or just try something new.

Charlie

[TI]

Mike and others that don't understand the money spent by tounament anglers in the local economies where tournaments are held......It would make a huge impact to the local economy if tournament organizers decided to not fish IDNR Lakes and fished on other bodies of water or out of state. For instance, if a central Indiana tournament angler bypassed French Lick or Jasper (Patoka) and went to the Ohio River or even into Kentucky (Taylorsville, KY Lake, etc.) instead, so does their money. I use central Indiana for this example because of the distance to travel adds to the overall expense of the trip. One could simply call Hucks or Lanes or Tony's Marina in French Lick to get a perspective.

- Most tournament anglers traveling with boat in tow simply don't like to travel with full tanks in the boat because of the weight. They will fill up at the local gas station.

- Most tournament anglers show up at least a day in advance to scout. Therefore they seek a place to stay (hotel or camp). Or, they make a trip down the weekend prior or even a day during the week.

- Most tournament anglers go out to eat when they're in town. I bet Judy's at Tony's Marina would not survive if not for the breakfast crowd from tournament anglers.

- Granted, tournament anglers aren't buying bait....But if they need something, which happens quite often, they'll be at the local bait store spending the money to get what they need.

Referencing these category's for the tournament anglers spend, then let's do a little math experiment. A Hoosier Open will have 180 boats at Patoka in late March/early April. That's 360 tournament anglers (One important note before we move forward....those 360 tournament anglers would not even be there if there wasn't a tournament.). Conservatively 50% of the field, 90 boats or 180 anglers, travel more than an hour to the tournament.

+ If 50% of those boats that travel more than an hour, 45 boats, needs gas at least once during their stay, and the average fill up in the boat is $50 (low estimate), then that is $2,250. We'll keep tow vehicle gas out of the exercise but we all know it's being purchased in the area.

+ If those 90 anglers (45 boats with 2 anglers in each) need a place to stay and the average hotel is $50/night for 2 people and they stay at least one night, then that is another $2,250.

+ If those 90 anglers spend $15 (low) on food, drinks and supplies for at least one day, then that is another $1,350.

= I used a very conservative 25% of the full field staying one night, one tank of gas in the boat and one day's worth of supplies and you get a jolt of $5,850 into the local economy on a date when there are no pleasure boaters even considering getting their boats out of storage. Plus, this accounts for only one tournament organization per weekend. In the spring there are typically tournaments being ran on Saturday and Sunday. ~ $10,000/weekend.

[BigDust]

Hey Crappie, why don't you do some research before you open your mouth, or in this case type with your fingers.

If there is a 150 boat field, usually there are 10 places that are paid out. That is 6.67% getting a paycheck. So about 6% broke even or made a profit. BUT EVERY TOURNAMENT FISHERMAN MAKES MONEY.

I live in Indy. If I fish at Monroe or Patoka, I'd say 1/2 the field will stay at campgrounds, cabins, or hotels...Probably more. To pull a boat with a pick-up truck, that's usually about 10-12 miles/gallon. Gas is approx $2.85/gallon. Patoka is approx 120 miles away, at $2.85/gallon which would be about 12 gallons, that's about $70 round trip. Oh yeah, then gas for the boat and oil for the boat, so about $30. Then about $50 for the hotel/cabin/campsite for the weekend, then food which I'll say $40. Oh crap, I forgot about the $100 entry fee to the tourney. The weekend probably would cost about...$300.00.


I don't think it's the increase we're upset about, but how the DNR and Conservation Officers go after tournament fisherman and fisherman in general. We already pay a lot in taxes and fees, I think we want proof and what is needed and where the money is goin.

They want a piece of our profit, well as I just explained above, WHAT (*^%*&^*) PROFIT. We do this for fun and the competition.

This is kind of on the same grip, but why is it when I'm fishing at Monroe and there are 100 ski boats around with people swimming and drinking, I get the CO to check my license and make sure I have the proper floataion device, but he doesn't check 1 ski boat? IT'S A *&^#%&# CONSPIRACY

[crappie66]

I could care less if you win or not, but you are there to try and win, so bottom line is you are trying to make money. Even if only 6% take home money.

Another post listed something about costing so much to enter to get a $1000 check, which will cause lower turnout. Since you are fishing for money it seems like a business type setting to me, why not combine many of these rinky dink tournies, more people, more money, since that is what you are concerned about.


I am not against tourny fishing one bit, I don't think tourny fisherman cause any more harm to the fish than recreational fisherman. My concern is using our resources for your profit, so I feel you should pay more, maybe the costs are getting out of hand, but you as the tourny people need to do something about rather than coming on a chat forum complaining about it and not taking any actions with the people who come up with the ideas for the fees.