Indiana tournament fees

[SLIMSHAD]

Payouts?? How many of you all get payouts? And about the fisheries management, at Monroe they let all the water out of the lake when the fish were spawning. I saw bass with their backs out of water trying to stay on nests. I also pay several fees when I tag and register my boat and trailer. Then I have to pay for a launching fee, entry fee, and oh yeah, fishing license. I'm all fee'd out.....

[Moose1am]

Is Monroe run by the Corp of Engineers? DNR does the fish management but they can't control the US GOVERMENT operations. State's manage their wildlife as best they can. But they can't help it if the **** Feds screwed up the spawn by lowing the lake levels at the wrong time. The Corps are there for flood control not to manage fish. I guess people and preventing floods still comes first with the Fed Govt.


Regards,

Moose1am

[meathead]

Tournament fishermen already generate MILLIONS in funds for fisheries management. Have you heard of Wallop-Breax? We pay taxes on all that expensive fishing tackle that should come right back to the resource (even though most probably gets wasted in our bloated beauracratic system). One tournament bass fishermen generates far more in tax revenue than 20 run of the mill worm dunkers (not saying we're the smartest lot, but we do spend the money, just ask my wife).

Why should fishermen legally catching bass have to pay extra? They are following all of the laws. Most team tournaments only allow 5 to 8 fish for a two man team, this is less than the legal limit. Big freaking deal if there is a small amount of money being passed back and forth! It's not like people are getting rich fishing these state tourneys.

What if fifty guys got together off-site threw in 100 bucks and brought all the bass back to the organizer's house where they were weighed. After that the group fillets all the bass and has a big fish fry. That would be totally legal and there would not be a fee even though every bass would be killed! What would that do to the resource? IT IS LEGAL TO KILL BASS, YET TOURNAMENT FISHERMEN RELEASE THERE FISH AND HAVE A MINIMAL IMPACT ON THE RESOUCE. LOOK AT THE DATA AND FACTS. DON'T ACT ON EMOTION LIKE SOME WACKO ENVIRONMENTALIST!


We keep throwing more and more money into bass fishing in this state and yet this state probably has some of the poorest bass fishing around.

[Moose1am]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-06 AT 09:44AM (EST)[/font][p]Meathead.

Your statement about tournament fishermen having minimum impact on the resource is hard to prove or disprove. Let me explain why I say this.

Each and every time we hook a fish it does have some type of impact on that fish. Not that it always will harm the fish but that fish will surely remember that bait and may avoid it the net time. That means that each time a fish is caught it may learn to avoid that bait the next time. Fish are not that dumb that they can' remember a bait. That may be why each year we have to use a new HOT bait. LOL This helps the bait salesmen big time.

Now people that take home the fish they catch to eat also reduce or harm the resource. But they don't waste the fish, they eat it. But what happens to the fish after they are released at the end of the day. Lets look at what the fish sees after he get hooked. He is dragged though the water sometime out of very deep water. They go from being under 2 Atmosphere of pressure in 33 ft of water to 1 amt at the surface. They are taken out of their oxygen supply and out of the cooler water and then exposed to no dissolved oxygen and hot air. The gases inside their swim bladders expands to twice it's volume. Boyle's and Charles Law apply here. The air inside the fish also gets warmer so it expands even more. The swim bladder may be ruptured and the fish will die. The fish's blood gases are suddenly exposed to warmer temp and half the water pressure and the gases bubble out of solution creating the bends in the fish. The fish suffers tremendous stresses. They may still look like they are swimming in the live well but they may well be on their last leg and you don't know it. Now you bring them up and then sometimes bang them into the boat causing bruising to their bodies. Internal organs can be damaged easily in this manner. Bleeding internally they may die later that day from complication. Also we grab them and remove the protective slime coating from their scales. This allows bacteria, fungi and other micro-organism access to the fish's skin now. Without the protective slime coat to avoid bacterial infection the fish may also die later of a bacterial infection. Now in a tournament you start out early in the day and may not end up at the weigh in until later that day. 3 pm or even later or maybe earlier. That's a long time for a lot of fish to be in a live well. They fish will be banged around inside the live well . They are not used to being in such confined spaces and they have to learn not to thrust their tail too hard of they will be speeding into the sides of the live well. I have put new fish into my aquarium and watched them do this at times. It takes them a while to learn where the glass it and to not bump into it. Now modern live wells have recirculating water systems. They can pump out old water from inside the live well that contains lots of ammonia waste and nitrates and replace that old water with fresh water. But where is the intake for the new fresh water at on a boat? Its on the transom most of the time. That is where the boat sites on the water's surface. You catch bass in water that's 65 deg F to 75 deg F 33ft down or even at 15 ft depths and then put the fish in 85 deg F surface waters that may or may not have much oxygen in it. Now you can supply dissolved oxygen to the live well easily enough. But how do you cool the live well waters down. Here is how I do it. I attack a 7 ft long 1/2" ID pvc pipe to the intake of my live well and then hang that pipe down into the cooler subsurface waters. I also freeze plastic bottles of water in the freezer before I go fishing and then throw them into a ice chest. I can then add a frozen water bottle to the live well in the hot summer months to cool the water down. Remember that cold water holds much more dissolved oxygen than hot water. Think of a foot ball player who just made a long run for a touchdown. You may see him sitting along the sidelines after that play sucking on a bottle of oxygen. Fish need to be refreshed too after they are stressed.

And finally lets look at the weigh in process. We take the fish out of the live well and then carry them to the scales either by hand or in big plastic bags of water. Again the fish are all put inside the same bag without much water. And it's hot water again. The fish are sliding up against each other and rubbing more slime off their scales. The fish bang against each other and thrash around inside the bag. Further bruising may occur. Then they are taken out of the bag of water and held up to show off for the cameras. How long depends on how big the crowd is and if there are cameras around. Got to get that picture. right? This entire time we should all be holding our breaths as the fish can't breath when it's out of the water. We then put them inside a bucket again with any water and then put a heavy lid on top of them so they can't flop around and get us all slimy. We have to wait for the scales to settle down and give us a good reading and then we take the fish out of the box and put them back into the hot water inside the transport bag. Now some transport bags have air bubble systems attached to them. That is what we all need to have in our boats. Then we take the fish back down to the closest ramp and release them near the dock in SHALLOW hot water at the end of the day. And we wonder if the fish actually make it though the next week?

Now if the fish is going to go though all this do you still think that it's unharmed and that these bass fishing tournaments have no effect on the fish populations?

Bottom line is if you catch a fish and don't eat it and it dies you have harmed the resource for the next fishermen. There will be less fish for him or her to catch the next time they go fishing.

Now I have given a summer time example where water temp difference between 33 ft deep water and the surface waters are at the extreme ends. Summer bass fishing tournaments do have an impact on the fish populations. You just are not seeing it I guess.

Now lets play the David Letterman Shaw's will if float game. Does a dying bass float to the surface before the turtles can eat it?

I did watch the FLW Red fish Tournament on TV last weekend. There they use a bucket of water that was pre-weighted and they put the fish in the water to be weighted. This is a good system that helps protect the red fish form oxygen depletion during the weigh in process. I wish that the bass fishing tournament guys would adopt this system for their weigh ins.

The scales would have to have a larger weighing capacity and the ability to tare the weight of the bucket and water before adding the fish but that's easy to do. Just get a heavier duty weighing scales and keep the fish in a bucket of water during the weigh in process. That way the fish are out of the water for much shorter periods of time and then they have a better change of surviving the tournaments and being caught by another fishermen the next week.

Here is my bottom line. I want to catch fish when I spend all the money on my boat and fishing tackle. I like most don't like to fish lakes that don't have any good fishing. You can't catch fish out of a lake that has very little fish left in it.

I want to make sure that the fish resource is protected so that more people can have the pleasure of catching some fish and having a good day on the lake. Having fun and relaxing is what I desire. I really don't care if the fish feels pain or any of all that. Hell I catch, kill, clean and eat fish and have been doing that all my entire life. I was catching bluegill when I was still a small toddler. After 50 something years of catching and eating fish and game I have no willies from the sight of blood or guts. But I do wish to preserve my fishing fun for the next generation.

I think that the IN DNR guys are the correct one's to do the research and come up with the rules and regulations to get this job done. Everyone can't be making up their own rules as that will never work. I'll leave it to the professionals to make up the right fishing regulations for all the different lakes. They may not be perfect in everything they do but they do a pretty **** good job overall given what they have budgeted to get the job done.


Regards,

Moose1am

[MikeAxsom]

I know my input to this issue is not often welcomed on this board, but I never was one to shut up just because someone didn’t like what I had to say. Anyway, as West Boggs is almost always brought up in these discussions, I’m going to again try to throw in some logical responses to some of the rhetoric.

The comment about Wallop-Breax being a source of revenue is factual. The comment about those funds being wasted is an opinion. Using the two in the same context is a propaganda tactic that serves little in getting to the truth of these issues.

“Why should fishermen legally catching bass have to pay extra?” I’ll not try to speak for IDNR, but at West Boggs they don’t have to. Our tournament permit fee is for a permit to conduct a tournament for money, which is a commercial activity on public lands. We also have permit requirements for such things like vendors selling food, setting up trade shows, flea markets, etc. The point is that conducting any commercial activity on public land is not within the intent in the setting of gate fees, launch fees, etc. The argument that an angler will have to pay somehow extra for the permit holder to recoup the permit fee is little different that arguing that a person would have to pay a little more for a hot dog because the vendor had to pay a permit fee.

[meathead]

How much in additional fees/taxes is that hot dog vendor paying into managing the resource? When he buys a buys his hot dog cooker is there a tax on that that goes to fish and wildlife?

[MikeAxsom]

I don't know. Probably not. I do know that our overall revenue from fishing and boating has grown by almost 80% since we began to regulate tournaments. Do you have any ideas about how we might get that back from tournament anglers or promoters if we removed those regulations?

[Danny]

>I don't know. Probably not. I
>do know that our overall
>revenue from fishing and boating
>has grown by almost 80%
>since we began to regulate
>tournaments. Do you have any
>ideas about how we might
>get that back from tournament
>anglers or promoters if we
>removed those regulations?

Mike, this comment reminded me of something my departed dad used to tell me. After he retired from the Postal Service, he worked for the KY Depeart of Transportation. He specifically worked on the Toll roads. He told me he once got a look at the operational budget and was assounded to learn that KY paid out $1 for every 50¢ the took in.

So how did your remark remind me of this? I was considering the statement that IN wanted to recoup their cost of tournaments, you mention relatively new regulation of the tournaments. Sounds like the department is now trying to find a way to pay for the department that is regulating the tournaments.

Is that so?

Danny

[MikeAxsom]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-06 AT 05:08PM (EST)[/font][p]>>I don't know. Probably not. I
>>do know that our overall
>>revenue from fishing and boating
>>has grown by almost 80%
>>since we began to regulate
>>tournaments. Do you have any
>>ideas about how we might
>>get that back from tournament
>>anglers or promoters if we
>>removed those regulations?
>
>Mike, this comment reminded me of
>something my departed dad used
>to tell me. After he
>retired from the Postal Service,
>he worked for the KY
>Depeart of Transportation. He specifically
>worked on the Toll roads.
>He told me he once
>got a look at the
>operational budget and was assounded
>to learn that KY paid
>out $1 for every 50¢
>the took in.
>
>So how did your remark remind
>me of this? I was
>considering the statement that IN
>wanted to recoup their cost
>of tournaments, you mention relatively
>new regulation of the tournaments.
>Sounds like the department is
>now trying to find a
>way to pay for the
>department that is regulating the
>tournaments.


>
>Is that so?
>
>Danny

Danny, I was actually trying to show that regulating tournaments has improved overall boating/fishing revenue due to increased traffic from other users who appear to enjoy their time on the water more without the tournament bustle. And I wondered if we were to go back to unregulated tournaments like the previous poster seemed to advocate, how he would propose to replace the lost revenue. I don’t really ever see going back unregulated tournaments being in the cards, so the questions was intended to be rhetorical. Maybe rhetorical questions are too complicated for some folks in this setting.

[zx225]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-06 AT 11:41AM (EST)[/font][p]Mike-

You make the most sense of anyone on this board. I used to fish a ton of tournaments and quite frankly, there is an element of the tournament fishing community that gives tounament fishing in general a black eye. Unfortunately, this element seems to be the most vocal. I fish many, many days a year and I spend a great deal of money doing so. The money I have to 'pay' to fish in the form of taxes, gate fees, etc. is inferior to the total dollars I spend in general. Bottom line, my desire to fish is greater than the cost required to do it. If I ever get to the point where I have to bash everyone that has their hand out, I'll just quit fishing and pick up another hobby.

Some tournament fishing anglers think the sun rises and sets on their rear end and that they are the only ones that foot the bill or 'get it'. It is hard for me to imagine how half of these folks can even fish while looking through their eyebrows when they are on the water. Sounds like an enjoyable time , huh?

The question that has to be answered is, 'What is it worth to you to be able to fish or tournament fish'. If the dollar figure, stress of it all, is less than what it actually costs....then quit it. Otherwise, enjoy yourself and do your talking in the voting booth....or with your state representative.

I am sure this will draw some dandy responses, but hey, I was doing this thing when most wannabes today were popping zits and chasing skinny teenage girls....so let er rip.

[Team9nine]

Ditto on ALL your comments, including those about Mike :)

As you said, been there, done that. Everyone needs to determine their own point at which this fishing stuff (tourneys or otherwise) isn't worth it to them. When that point is exceeded, step away.

And if people would devote half as much energy to contacting and working with the proper authorities, groups or personnel that are involved with all these discussed "problems" as they do with website bi#$%ing, they might actually get something accomplished.

-T9

[Moose1am]

I have to agree with Mike, and TeamNine here. Good to see that we have some people with good sense on this board. Thanks guys for stating the obvious. We need to say that from time to time to reinforce that there are many types of people who fish and help pay the state costs of maintaining the state fisheries.

Heck I went out last night and spend 135 bucks on fishing gear. Now the Pittman and or Dingle Act will cost me a few more tax dollars on that stuff but it's for a great cause.


Regards,

Moose1am