Those crying about the "Proposed" Tourney fee's

[lov2fish]

I have read every reply to both threads and I have never once seen science mentioned. You guys kill me. I will start off by saying, the fee's are needed and will be put in place with or without your petition. I am not anti-tourney, far from it, but I am one who thinks before he types most times.


There are alot of underlying factors that caused the fee's to be instituted, which by the way, they are no where near the staggering figures the tourney directors are trying to scare into you. We saw the proposed encrease last year before anyone and it is set up in teirs. Now to why your license doesn't go as far as you think.

Bass fishermen are not the only fishermen who buy a license, we are probably the minority truth be known. So your license money the DNR collects from bass fishermen alone is probably not even a pimple on the ##### of the DNR budget. Just cause we bass fish we are not entitled to anymore than your license will pay for. There are Walleye,Musky,Panfish,Catfish and Carp fishermen who contribute to the lake funding the same as we do. So to say I buy a license and this should entitle me to special privledges is just ignorant.

You ever hear of science? Maybe an invasive species? These things are real and threaten your water everyday. You know who takes care of these problems? That's right the DNR. When some idiot thought he was doing the bass fishing world a favor by tossing some shad into Patoka or, "insert your favorite lake here" It was the Biologist who tried to bring it under control as to not kill off or degrade the bass fishing. When an invasive species of plants gets in a lake from a careless boater it is the DNR Biologist who try and keep it under control. Have you ever considered any of those factors into your rants? Probably not as I can see by all the post your greed and selfishness won't allow it!

To help recoup the cost from these expensive endeavours the DNR has decided it was time everyone actualy paid their fair share to properly manage your water. Do you know how many lakes across Indiana have invasive species problems? About 80% of them and it is expensive to keep it in check. So do you really think your license fee should entitle you to some special pass to not help pay just because you fish a Tournament?

Yes the local economy gets a nice influx of money around the lake, but, if the lake is dead or not worth fishing are you still going to go spend your money there? I bet I know the answer! Stop just using something up and then moving on simply because you bought a license. The watershed you think your entitled to has to be managed and you must help pay that bill. None of these into take into consideration the law enforcement part of the equation. If you think your being targeted as bass fishermen you had better take a look @ the citations written last year, once again your the minority. There is no other fast side @ Monroe, there is the idle side that everyone thinks is ok to run through there @ break neck speeds. It's not, if you get a ticket for it, stop crying you broke the law.

Now how much do you think your license entitles you to? Not as much as you thought is it. Do your part and pay your share. None of this even takes into consideration the mortality rates of bass who died after release, who is going to replace those? Who is going to make sure the recruitment is in line for the next year? Oh yeah, the DNR.....So you wanted to know where the extra cost comes into play? Now you know, or should I say you have seen the tip of a huge iceberg of what it cost to miantain a Reservoir.


Sincerely, Ray Rigby

[TI]

Ray,

C'mon brother. There is some legitimate concern and it's healthy for progress to have these debates. Everyone raises a lot of legitimate questions and hopefully those questions will be analyzed and addressed by the DNR/State in their next course of action. I mean this in a friendly manner my friend but your posture here is a little over the top.

TI

[lov2fish]

TI/Eric, etc. Yes I came off as pompus and for that I apologize. I still stick to my guns about how I arrived @ my numbers. I got them directly from the DNR. It just irked me to no end when reading the other thread that nobody ever took the resource into consideration, not once. Everyone formed an opinion that bass fishermen are the only one's who count in any process regarding monies and the IDNR. Our resources are not a renewable comodity. They need managed and properly taken care of and this has to be paid for by somebody. This was never mentioned, just finger pointing that the IDNR was ripping us off once again.

I just wanted to shed light on the fact they we are not the only people who fish or use the resource and we are responsible for our own actions. If this bothers some people so beit. I won't apologize for wanting to protect what I consider a privledge and not a right (Using our resources)

You can think of me what you will, won't loose a minutes sleep over it, but I won't stop pointing out glaring observations.


Ray rigby

[hardestyeric]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-06 AT 10:09AM (EST)[/font][p]Nobody has ever questioned you points about the resources. Nobody has ever said that you didn't make valid points. I don't see how the points you made pertain to just tourney fisherman, they cover all fisherman. If the DNR is going to raise licenses across the board to cover management fees, stocking fees, or improvements you wouldn't hear me say a word about it. I know that they are trying to become self supporting and I have a pretty good hunch that they are underfunded. Where the controversy started is when you said that they were charging more in the tourneys to cover the costs for ALL fisherman. That is what I had a problem with. If they are doing things that benefits the resource as a whole then they should charge all the fisherman. If the tourneys cause extra fees then charge the tourney fisherman for just those extra fees. I'm fine with that. I am completely against charging one group more money to benefit all the groups. It does happen but it doesn't make it right.
Eric H.

[MikeAxsom]

Eric, stated the way you just did, I am in agrement with your position on fees of all types. It should never be acceptable for one person or group of people to force another person or group of people to pay for their recreation. That is what I see as the primary fault of tax based recreation. But I'm not sure that is really what is going on with this fee. I think your research on the matter should include checking what the DNR and the Natural Resources Commission have in their own study materials that led to the establishment of the fee in the first place. I've been in some of those types of process, and I'm pretty sure a plan to just rip off tournament anglers to help fund some wild-hair idea elsewhere would have a very hard time getting through the process; despite what some guys on the internet, or at the bait shop might tell you.

[hardestyeric]

Mike,
That was more or less the point of my last post. The entire time I have been trying to find where these extra fees for tourneys where coming from. Someone has been kind enough to enlighten me and I'm fine with it. Ray presented the material in a way that would lead you to believe that the increased tourney fees were to help the overall resource and not just to cover the cost of the tournaments themselves. If it has to cost more to play then so be it. As long as the cost is spread to the users that are benefiting from it.
Eric H.

[MikeAxsom]

Eric, I have to say that I don't know the reasoning behind the new IDNR tourny fee myself, and was not involved in how it came about. My observations were intended to be about the process that I havee seen in these tings for many years in the business.I see IDNR today growing toward a more user focused funding model, i.e., specific fees for specirfic activities, and I assume this fee is in keping with that trend. At the same time it is true that any funds that get addd to the total dollar pie will benefit all of the resources under IDNR management. For example, if a fee for boaters was to be implemented specifically to build modern restrooms near ramps, that would also benefit bank fishermen that use the same area. In other cases it is just a matter of a tagged fund freeing up some other money for an unrelated program or project. It is all part of the same plan at some level.

[idbefishing]

I agreed with Eric! A while back there was a thread of someone complaining about the cost of park entry, ramp and camping fee. I was supportive of those costs because I understand that those fees were neccessary for operation and IT HAVE TO BE PAID FOR BY EVERYONE USING THE LAKE. What we're "crying" about is not because the extra 5-10 bucks or whatever. It ain't fair for one group to pay for everyone. If I can afford $2.80/gal of gas to drive 200 miles to the lake, I can definetely spend the extra 5-10. If they say, bend over, I won't say how far unless everyone else have to.

[lov2fish]

When I actualy researched the numbers. Ever tried it? It's not rocket science, everything is on the web to see. Plus it helps I have a few connections @ the IDNR through ISC Conservation.


The first thing to come out of peoples mouths when their "Opinions" are proven wrong, personal attacks. Prove me wrong and I will eat crow for the entire world to see. It is highly unlikely you will, but if you do my embarrassment is there for the world to laugh at.


Ray Rigby

[hardestyeric]

Not sure if you read your post before you sent it but you started the personal attacks with the tone and sarcasm of your first post. The rest of us are just responding to it.
I believe that team9 pretty well proved you wrong on that other web page. He explained the facts of where the extra tourney fees came from. He explained that it didn't have anything do with management resource, exotic species, or lake resources. It shows that your "opinion" about where the extra tournament fees where coming from is wrong.
For those of you that don't get on that other page, the extra fees are coming from all the paperwork that goes into having the tourneys and the meetings to schedule the tourneys. It also isn't the huge dollar amount jump that some (including myself) have speculated.
Eric H.

[Team9nine]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-30-06 AT 09:33AM (EST)[/font][p]Eric, not proving anybody wrong here. Unfortunately, there are a lot of different fees for a lot of different reasons all being argued over in the same post. Many of these don't have anything to do with each other, but it is easy to understand how two guys could be arguing over 2 different fees and where that money goes and not realize it.

Money from the tourney permit stuff is different from money for the launch permit and different from the DNR fees and LARE fees on a boat registration. All have their reasons and their respective budgets they get assigned to, just hard to argue all of them in a single post without getting everyone confused :) The DNR is a pretty huge group with lots of different departmental budgets.

-T9

[hairjig]

How do you think those big old bass at patkoa got so big,I would think it was because of the shad, what about brookville or monroe big bass and lots of shad. The shad just change the way the fish use the cover. Harder to catch this time of year but once you figure it out your in for a treat!